Reducing Fortifications (Full Version)

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abulbulian -> Reducing Fortifications (12/9/2012 4:36:40 PM)

Having some trouble as Japan dislodging some Chinese units at fort 6 in a city. Even though I outnumber 4:1 them and have them surrounded (waiting a month to attack), they don't seem to be wavering yet. How can I most effectively reduce the fortifications? Can I do this with out attacking? Bombardment with arty? Attack unit with air (ground attack)? Otherwise I just need tons of engineer units in the assault?

Thanks

On a side note: even masses of planes seem to do almost nothing against ground targets in good defensive terrain. Is there still some disruption and fatigue on the targeted units that still makes this useful?




pompack -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/9/2012 5:06:15 PM)

0) Prep for the base under siege
1) insure that every hex edge is in your control or joint control
2) Use air to attack base in order to kill supplies
3) Once supply is seemingly significantly reduced (and I have never figured out how to determine that [:D]) switch air to ground attack; do not attack on the ground until this is done
4) Use bombardment with discretion against Chinese (others OK) since the disruption you inflict may be more than balanced by the experience they gain
5) Have lots of engineers present before any ground assault
6) Assault once, then wait until everyone is back to no worse than 0/3 fatigue and disruption (or the best you can do if Monsoon)
7) Repeat Assaults until done

Patience is a virtue since your prep improves and your disruption/fatigue improves and you (hopefully) get replacements. In general a totally cut-off and unsupplied unit will not restore disruption and will lose fatigue slowly.

EDIT: air attack on ground units cause disruption and fatigue (just not a lot in good defensive terrain with high fort levels).




Gregg -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/9/2012 5:54:46 PM)

Yep:
1) Surround to cut off supply (this is the key factor).
2) Bomb airfield to force the defender to use supply repairing airfield.
3) Once airfield is highly damaged, switch to port of it is a port.
4) When airfield and port (if available) is highly damaged switch to ground attack for bombing.
5) Once supply is greatly reduced, start bombardment while keeping up air attacks.
6) Have your troops well rested, and have plenty of artillery and combat engineers.
7) Attack, rest troops, attack again, and keep doing so. As long as you have supply your disrupted units will recover, but the enemy's units with out supply will recover from disruption very slowly if at all.
8) You should reduce the forts one at a time with each attack, forts can not be rebuilt with out supply.
9) Once you get the forts down to 1 or 2, Shock Attack can tip the combat odds enough to cause surrender.
It can take months to do the above.
It once took me almost a year (1943) to reduce Sidney Australia, where the AI made its final stand.
Gregg




koniu -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/9/2012 5:58:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregg

Yep:
2) Bomb airfield to force the defender to use supply repairing airfield.


Supply are not used to repair AF or Port.
They are used only to build to higher level

Best way to burn supplies is bombarding AF even after it is 100% damaged




Mac Linehan -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/9/2012 6:28:23 PM)

pompack -

Have not seen you much on the forums - on the other hand I am on only active on the weekends. I still have a number of your posts - all informative on a wide range of AE subjects - saved to my forum library.

Gregg, koniu, I very much appreciate your posts and clarifications.

This thread is timely - I am playing the Burma and Thousand Mile War scenarios as a combat refresher, and shall put this excellent guide to immediate use.

Now. Back to the cold wastes of the Aleutions...

Mac




pompack -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/9/2012 8:24:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregg

Yep:
2) Bomb airfield to force the defender to use supply repairing airfield.


Supply are not used to repair AF or Port.
They are used only to build to higher level

Best way to burn supplies is bombarding AF even after it is 100% damaged



Yep

The only way you can run down supplies is with a "supply hit". At one time a "supply hit" destroyed a fixed percentage of supplies: fairly useless since if he had a lot of supplies he didn't care (he had so many) and if he had just a few supplies he didn't care (a fraction of a percent of even a thousand supplies isn't many lost). However some time ago there was a change so that a "supply hit" now destroyes a fixed number of supplies as a function of the bomb size; this will allow you to actually destroy every last supply point.

Now when supplies IN THE UNIT, not just the base, are at zero flak stops firing. That is the only way I know to tell if the base is absolutely out of supplies. So generally I just bomb until I got tired of watching the animation and then switch to bombing the ground units to inflict disruption.




pompack -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/9/2012 8:26:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

pompack -

Have not seen you much on the forums - on the other hand I am on only active on the weekends. I still have a number of your posts - all informative on a wide range of AE subjects - saved to my forum library.

Mac


Thank you kindly, Mac. I have had at least one PBEM going since AE came out, but my posting has gotten to be a bit intermittent of late.




abulbulian -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/10/2012 12:19:33 AM)

Great stuff to know thanks. I was misunderstanding that repairing AF and Ports used supply. Thanks again for clarifying.




crsutton -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/10/2012 4:50:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Great stuff to know thanks. I was misunderstanding that repairing AF and Ports used supply. Thanks again for clarifying.


As for your original question. The only way to reduce fortifications is to attack. You will need combat engineers in your stack to really drop them down. You cannot reduce built fortifications any other way that I know of.




castor troy -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/10/2012 7:54:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Great stuff to know thanks. I was misunderstanding that repairing AF and Ports used supply. Thanks again for clarifying.


As for your original question. The only way to reduce fortifications is to attack. You will need combat engineers in your stack to really drop them down. You cannot reduce built fortifications any other way that I know of.



what crsutton says, not only combat engineers though, but also any 1:1 or higher will knock down a fort level even if there isn't a single combat engineer in the hex




Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/10/2012 3:44:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Great stuff to know thanks. I was misunderstanding that repairing AF and Ports used supply. Thanks again for clarifying.


Repairing airfields and ports keeps engineers busy, so they can't build/rebuild forts.




janh -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/10/2012 4:08:54 PM)

Sounds like you are playing AI? If PBEM, you can starve the enemy. If AI, and you are playing on difficulty "Hard" or above, forget about reducing supply. At higher difficulty levels, >= hard, AI is always considered in full supply.

It unfortunately doesn't just get a benefit or multiplier to the supply truly delivered, but is independent of delivery. You can alternate between "Historical" and "Hard" turns, though, to give AI a hand every 7th turn or so to rebuild air units etc. without totally changing the nature of warfare and rendering convoy (hunting) or encirclements obsolete. Unfortunately that way AI also looses its combat benefits at higher levels.




Chickenboy -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/10/2012 5:15:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Great stuff to know thanks. I was misunderstanding that repairing AF and Ports used supply. Thanks again for clarifying.


Repairing airfields and ports keeps engineers busy, so they can't build/rebuild forts.


This is correct. Also, AF and Port aerial bombardment will occasionally cause damage to "airfield supplies" or "port supplies". This directly affects (reduces) supplies. Banging on the port facilities or the airfield / runway / airfield support structures does not.




dr.hal -> RE: Reducing Fortifications (12/10/2012 7:28:38 PM)

I too misunderstood that repairing damaged airfields and ports chewed up supply... thanks for that clarification! It helps one build a sound strategy.




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