RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (Full Version)

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witpqs -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/20/2012 3:06:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

Can't argue with your point Bill. But the one I was making is that this particular "missadventure" really isn't suitable to be explored in WITP-AE simply because the "game" actually gives it a modest chance of working. There is no mechanism in the game to simulate the result of a large Japanese Convoy being directed into an area of the Pacific where it's presense can mean nothing but war..., like steaming towards Hawaii, or down the Malayan coast, or into the waters of the Philippine Islands or the Dutch East Indies. No "tripped trigger" that can destroy any Japanese chance for achieving "surprise", or allow all Allied forces one or two or even three turns of "reaction" when some Japanese players' totally absurd plan to begin the war with landings at Rangoon or Hawaii or Darwin is put into play.

I think you can explore it better than might first be apparent. You mod the scenario and have the invasion fleet start where you both figure/agree that their presence would both be spotted and trigger hostilities. You can turn off first turn surprise. The only thing you are stuck with is the first turn being that sort of half-turn. But, if the invasion fleet is way out in the ocean that shouldn't matter anyway.

Obviously any exploration with a game like this is limited. But the ways in which it does perform a decent high-level simulation are still useful. Would it track well with reality? Even though reality did not go that way we can look at how the game goes in scenarios and with play aimed at a 'realistic feel' to see that, no, it would not. But it likely would help to illustrate various difficulties and possibilities.

I also think there was trolling going on in this thread, but if players with a serious approach wanted to game the scenario, I think they could get something out of it.




mike scholl 1 -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/20/2012 5:31:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I think you can explore it better than might first be apparent. You mod the scenario and have the invasion fleet start where you both figure/agree that their presence would both be spotted and trigger hostilities. You can turn off first turn surprise. The only thing you are stuck with is the first turn being that sort of half-turn. But, if the invasion fleet is way out in the ocean that shouldn't matter anyway.




Even with the best of intentions, you still have to get two players (at least one of whom believes the invasion possible) to agree on when/if it is spotted. Might work as an intellectual exercise..., but I have some doubts how well it would work in a game.




Califvol -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/20/2012 11:37:59 PM)

Relevant to this discussion might be the book:

"Hawaii Under the Rising Sun: Japan's Plans for Conquest After Pearl Harbor" by John J. Stephan (I haven't read it and can only point to it on Amazon.)

"About the Author
John J. Stephan was awarded the Japan Culture Translation Prize in 1973. From 1970 until 2001 he taught modern Japanese history at the University of Hawai'i, where he is now emeritus professor of history. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title."

http://www.amazon.com/Hawaii-Under-Rising-Sun-Conquest/dp/0824825500/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top




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