Puzzlement time (Full Version)

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Roger Neilson 3 -> Puzzlement time (11/29/2012 12:30:51 PM)

1. I know that detection level is important, but what is the significance of the numbers either side of the /? Scoured the manual and its no help.

2. My coast-watchers are being very helpful in telling me what is in various ports, even down to the name of the ship, but when I send in some planes to port attack they never find anything.... do my coast-watchers need glasses? I have planes on naval attack as well so belt and braces should catch the shipping.

3. Some of my construction seems to have simply stopped, plenty of supply, plenty of engineers.... but its like they have gone on strike.... using the latest Beta

4. Likewise a couple of my TFs just stopped loading for several turns, in the middle of loading. Could see no reason why - again seems to be somebody called a strike and the union downed tools....

Little niggles, but still niggles.

Roger




GreyJoy -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/29/2012 12:33:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3



2. My coast-watchers are being very helpful in telling me what is in various ports, even down to the name of the ship, but when I send in some planes to port attack they never find anything.... do my coast-watchers need glasses? I have planes on naval attack as well so belt and braces should catch the shipping.


Little niggles, but still niggles.

Roger



Can only answer for this one...but i never give any importance to what CW reports about ships in port. The only usefull infos they seem to give is to signal when a TF is passing by a coastal hex during the night phase... nothing more imho




Roger Neilson 3 -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/29/2012 12:40:39 PM)

Aha, right get my supply drop of glasses and US Opthalmologists ready then.....

Roger




sprior -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/29/2012 1:27:04 PM)

Second number is maximum detection level, first number is the level you actually have.

Page 217 refers.




Roger Neilson 3 -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/29/2012 1:42:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Second number is maximum detection level, first number is the level you actually have.

Page 217 refers.

So to paraphrase.... first number is what the current detection is, second is what it has been... if first number is greater its getting more seen......

Roger




guytipton41 -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/29/2012 2:39:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Second number is maximum detection level, first number is the level you actually have.

Page 217 refers.

So to paraphrase.... first number is what the current detection is, second is what it has been... if first number is greater its getting more seen......

Roger


Humm,

I'm not sure that is correct. I think different types of detection have a different maximums. For subs it appears to be 4, for air it's 10. Then it decays from there.

Cheers,
Guy




LoBaron -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/29/2012 5:51:06 PM)

The manual describes this very well in fact, I reccommend to read pages 217 through 221, they a very educative. [:)]

Here is the important part for distinction between DL and MDL:

quote:

An MDL of zero indicates the unit has not been spotted by the enemy and is not shown on the
map (enemy bases are always shown on the map even if a base has an MDL of zero nothing
but the name of the base will be known by the enemy). MDLís above zero indicate the enemy
has spotted the unit. When Fog of War is Off, all units have a minimum MDL value of one. The
greater the MDL, the more is likely to be known about the unit by the enemy and displayed
on the screen.
The greater the DL the easier it is to inflict damage on the enemy in combat. Often even
when the DL is zero, friendly forces will take action due to an MDL value that is higher (i.e.
even though an enemy TF disappears at night, expectations of enemy movements based
on following the enemy closely the previous day can lead to friendly forces anticipating the
enemyís next move). The DL of every unit changes constantly during the resolution phase
based on the unitís activities and enemy actions.


And a bit further:

quote:

MDLís go up with the DL value, but they decline at a slower rate than the DL. Whenever any
enemy DL value increases, if the MDL of the enemy is lower than the new DL, the MDL is set
equal to the new DL.
Whenever an event causes a reduction in the DL (including ships with DLís already at zero)
and the new DL value is zero, the MDL is reduced by one. In this way the MDL can remain a
positive number long after the DL has become zero. However, MDLís for subs are cut in half
(rounded down) every 12 hours.


So in short, DL is responsible for the ability to bring ordnance on target, MDL is responsible for displaying information about the target, and the ability
to predict a targetsī movements.

quote:

ORIGINAL: guytipton41
I think different types of detection have a different maximums. For subs it appears to be 4, for air it's 10. Then it decays from there.


No, the potential maximums are the same for every unit type: 10. The MDL can be higher than 10 during turn resolution but is adjusted back
to 10 after turn resolution.

What you get the impression that there are different caps on DL from, is that the chance to detect and increase DL/MDL of units can differ.
Subs are very hard to spot, a DD much easier, a CL even more so, and so on.

With subs there is an additional "feature":
quote:

Chapter 10.1.2 MDLís for subs are cut in half (rounded down) every 12 hours.




Roger Neilson 3 -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/29/2012 7:18:08 PM)

Thanks, so its even more complex than I had imagined......

Roger




jmalter -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/29/2012 8:43:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3
3. Some of my construction seems to have simply stopped, plenty of supply, plenty of engineers.... but its like they have gone on strike.... using the latest Beta

as a port/airfield's built capacity approaches its allowed max, construction time increases. your engrs aren't on strike, but it can take 2 or more days to add 1 %age-point of increase.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3
4. Likewise a couple of my TFs just stopped loading for several turns, in the middle of loading. Could see no reason why - again seems to be somebody called a strike and the union downed tools....

like ships, ports have an 'ops limit'. it depends on size & navsupport. if TFs arrive demanding refuel/re-arm before they auto-disband, they could use a large portion of the port's capabilities.

imo sporadic labor unrest would be a cool addition to the game's random events. dockies on strike in Sydney (what, again?) or sabotage at a factory.




Roger Neilson 3 -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/30/2012 6:16:06 AM)

Thanks jmalter, but as regards the construction one is stuck on 81% of an initial level 1 and can build to lvl 5, the other is 1.77% build on a level 4 - supply may be an issue with the former of the two, but the latter is well supplied, has plenty of engineers and just seems to be stuck.

I unloaded the TF that was 'stuck' but it was an amphib with plenty of space and had sat for several turns with no loading - at around 80% of the force that was to load on board....

Roger




Roger Neilson 3 -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/30/2012 6:22:34 AM)

Ok, looking at some of my TFs, these are all at a port with its own DL of 8/10. The TFs have DLs of 5/7, 3/7,2/8,2/5......

The 5/7 and 2/8 are amphibious TFs that have sailed there through 'friendly waters' but are now under enemy air recce. The 3/7 and 2/5 are SCTF which have been closer to the enemy base....

Roger




jmalter -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/30/2012 10:31:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3
I unloaded the TF that was 'stuck' but it was an amphib with plenty of space and had sat for several turns with no loading - at around 80% of the force that was to load on board....

imo that TF was fully-loaded for phib ops. it was incapable of loading any more, & every day it spent in port just added to LCU fatigue/disruption levels that will hurt when they debark in a contested hex.

AmphTFs will typically top out their loading at ~80% ship-capacity, even when composed entirely of phib-capable ships (APA, AKA, LCI, LST &c). you can only load 'combat mode' LCUs to an AmphTF, this incurs an automatic 20% 'combat loading' penalty to the ships' troop/supply capacities, note that this penalty is NOT visible in the TF-loading screen, you should have 25% 'excess capacity' for both troops & cargo before you punch the 'Accept Load' button.

also, an AmphTF will try to load supply for expected combat, if cargo load-space is tight, some portion of your LCU won't be loaded, typically 'motorized support' components will be left behind. so you really need ~25% overage in troop-capacity, & ~35% overage in cargo-capacity to load LCUs onto an AmphTF. sometimes you can accept a smaller cargo-cap overage if you've got a v. large troop-cap overage, a ship can load supply to troop-space at ~1/3rd capacity. note that Japanese load-capabilities are entirely different than Allied.

wrt your base-construction probs, i'd need more detail - what is the base size & max size, how many engrs & engr vehs are present, what is the engr LCUs' fatigue? it can take 100's of engrs to build up a base, but 25 engrs will take 4 times as long to do the same amount of construction that 100 engrs can do. the charts in this post http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2885601&mpage=1&key=� might be helpful.




Roger Neilson 3 -> RE: Puzzlement time (11/30/2012 12:22:34 PM)

ah right, what you say makes sense, and yet again reminds me of how multilayered this game is....

Thanks that helps a lot.

Roger




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