Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (Full Version)

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Queeg -> Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (11/28/2012 3:31:34 AM)

I like everything about this game except the actual gameplay. Simply stated, the unit behavior is often unrealistic to the point of absurdity.

I just played a Div vs Div sandbox fight. I get my guys lined up on a ridge, with orders to hold to the last. Bad guys approach. My guys are perfectly aligned, mutually supporting lines, good elevation and cover, flanks overlapping the enemy. There's NO REASON for my guys to do anything but fire.

But they don't. At least not for long. Some stay in position fine. But about half my units decide to go into endless pivot-on-the-center moves for no apparent reason. They have friendly support on both flanks, and a single enemy unit directly across from them, firing at them, and yet they suddenly decide to pivot at a 90-degree angle to the enemy! Again and again.

At one point, I had four regiments pivoted at right angles to the enemy, looking at each other or marching through each other - all the while under fire from enemy directly to their front! I just laughed it was so ridiculous. And then quit.

There's no way to justify this. It can't be that there's another button to push or formation to order. Or that there's some hidden nuance to the game that I just don't understand. Nobody - ever - would do what my units were doing in real life. Perhaps if I spend hours messing with the game I'll learn the secret command to keep my guys from being complete jackasses - but that shouldn't be necessary.

Units did not behave this way in the Take Command games. I've played both SoW and TC:SM the past two evenings just to make sure I wasn't remembering things incorrectly. But I'm not. There's much to like about SoW, but it's definitely a step backward from TC in terms of unit behavior. (Heck, even the units in the TW games aren't this stupid.)

The new graphics are pretty. And the courier system is nice. But it's all wasted if the soldiers fight like buffoons.

Sorry. Wish it weren't so.




Norb -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (11/28/2012 1:13:59 PM)

I am looking into this issue for a patch, and I completely agree with your analysis. It's just not right at all. In messing with the AI to handle other issues, I have inadvertantly created this situation. I have our QA team working to get me a good non-modded saved game of this situation, and as soon as I get it I will work on a solution.




Garnier -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (11/28/2012 2:04:25 PM)

quote:

Perhaps if I spend hours messing with the game I'll learn the secret command to keep my guys from being complete jackasses - but that shouldn't be necessary.

Agreed it shouldn't be necessary, but until it's fixed there is the secret command:

If you select a regiment and click the Take Charge button (a yellow box with a flag in it on the toolbar), the regiment will do nothing but stand there and shoot unless you specifically give orders to them. In multiplayer, usually most or all regiments are TCed by their player commanders, and then this issue doesn't arise at all.




Queeg -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (11/28/2012 2:18:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norb

I am looking into this issue for a patch, and I completely agree with your analysis. It's just not right at all. In messing with the AI to handle other issues, I have inadvertantly created this situation. I have our QA team working to get me a good non-modded saved game of this situation, and as soon as I get it I will work on a solution.



Norb

Thanks for your quick and candid reply. I was in rant mode last night, and I appreciate your not responding in kind.

One thought: Might this behavior have something to do with unit sizes (the sprite ratio)? We all want large units, with lots of men, but I wonder if part of the problem with unit behavior might be caused by the frequent overlap among units. It's the ends of the line that seem jumpy. (I was playing with the default ratio.). Just a thought.

Again, we all appreciate your dedication to this game.




Norb -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (11/29/2012 10:43:25 PM)

Queeg, do you have a saved game of this situation? I want to make sure any fixes that I work on address exactly this situation that you are seeing. If you do, please email to sowsupport at scourgeofwar dot com, thanks.




2ndACR -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (11/29/2012 11:38:37 PM)

I also will see if I can catch a save file of the issue.




Queeg -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (11/30/2012 12:41:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Norb

Queeg, do you have a saved game of this situation? I want to make sure any fixes that I work on address exactly this situation that you are seeing. If you do, please email to sowsupport at scourgeofwar dot com, thanks.


I don't but I'll try the same scenario, unmodded, later tonight. I probably won't issue a bunch of orders. Just let the AI do it's thing. I assume that's best for testing purposes?




Norb -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (11/30/2012 1:33:57 AM)

I don't think it will matter how you get there. As long as the save shows what you describe, a unit constantly wheeling. We have seen this before and it's better than when we started, but obviously not good enough. It's threat analysis and problem is that it changes as the unit wheels.




Qwixt -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (12/19/2012 9:25:39 PM)

I am interested in this game. I saw a video of someone playing it, and it looked a bit silly/frustrating playing it due to this bug or another. I think I will wait till it's fixed. So if you get it fixed and patched, please mention it :)




JiminyJickers -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (12/19/2012 11:41:38 PM)

Still an amazing game, try the demo and see for yourself.  I bought it straight after.




Qwixt -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (12/20/2012 5:42:54 AM)

Good advice. Downloading it now.




kabiros -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (12/30/2012 9:07:10 PM)

It's not a conga line, they're playing the old 19th century game, snap the whip.

Quite common back then. Here is the famous Winslow Homer depiction of the "Orphan Brigade" (not the Kentucky one, the other one commanded by BG Octavius Cornpone [;)] ) at either Gettysburg or Antietam. These orphan kids were so poor they fought the entire war without ever having been issued weapons. BG Cornpone is depicted as the one with the funny hat. In real life he was a much more imposing figure.

[image]local://upfiles/501/890E6BA0243A49D3A3104FB1FCD0A289.jpg[/image]

Seriously, the game is too good to let this get in the way. For now, try changing the sprite display to a value of 10 to mitigate against this unsightly behavior. I think you will find the result more acceptable. I'm sure that eventually Norb and the NSD team will find the solution.

Deo Vindice






Blond_Knight -> RE: Perpetual Conga Line Frustration (12/30/2012 9:47:20 PM)


try changing the sprite display to a value of 10 to mitigate against this unsightly behavior


What does the sprite display actually? Setting it to ten almost makes it look like it reduces the keyframe animation.




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