new parameters for the modders (Full Version)

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Manu -> new parameters for the modders (11/20/2012 9:01:02 AM)

So with the release of Pitf and its new features, modders have to consider some new parameters (please correct me if I'm wrong) :
- scale is now 8 pixels/meters (drawings match finally the distances calculated in the game)
- the terrain graphics, as trees, have now an alpha layer. Don't know for the other graphics (planes,gadgets, vehicles, etc)
- vehicle turrets have their own shadows
- graphics must be saved in targa 32 bits (no more 16 bits)
- trees graphics are no more restricted to the 10 *10 pixels square.
- new tools are needed (gadgetmunger and 5CC) to work with the new graphics. I'm sure they will be released soon.

some questions :
what is the maximum size of the maps?
Number of maximum maps allowed in the game?
Maximum size of the stratmap?
Possibility to use again some features of LSA? fixed units - fixed BG (bo) - permanent roof graphics (as the bridge girders)

Thanks to Matrix and the devs as Steve to allow me to keep my hobby alive!!! ;)




xe5 -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/20/2012 5:51:16 PM)

Changing the last byte in the battle file from 00 to 01 switches on the 'Use Static Troops' option which displays the static BG icons on the strat map, but the new Platoon requisition system doesnt work with StaticBGs.txt in its LSA format (team class#/tile# x 15 or 21). Possible that StaticBGs.txt requires a new format to define 1st, 2nd and Support Platoon units.




Steve McClaire -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/20/2012 6:28:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Manu
some questions :
what is the maximum size of the maps?
Number of maximum maps allowed in the game?
Maximum size of the stratmap?
Possibility to use again some features of LSA? fixed units - fixed BG (bo) - permanent roof graphics (as the bridge girders)


Maximum map size is 40 x 40 mega tiles, or 120 x 120 tiles, or 7680 pixels x 7680 pixels.

Maximum number of maps the game can handle is 64.

The Strategic map image can be (within reason) pretty much as big as you want. It's a single image in CCIMages.pix.

While the old features from previous versions are not specifically supported, most of them will work. Static troops will not work.




kojusoki1 -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/21/2012 9:29:34 AM)

Steve,
How can I increase the amount of teams used during game? And what is teh maximum number of avaliable "slots"?
In CC we had 3 platoons, 5 teams each. What is teh situation here? Maps are huge so one might want to increase the quantity.

Michal




RD_Oddball -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/21/2012 4:44:02 PM)

One thing that's noteworthy that the 32bit graphics now allow for the alpha masks to be included with the graphic themselves. Additionally the hard edge in the alpha mask is no longer required. You may now use semi-transparent alpha channels for all graphics. The utilization of the specific green colors to identify shadows, etc. is gone. Takes a little bit of getting used to but opens up a lot of possibilities, increased subtlety, and refined look with that change alone.




Steve McClaire -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/21/2012 5:27:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kojusoki1
Steve,
How can I increase the amount of teams used during game? And what is teh maximum number of avaliable "slots"?
In CC we had 3 platoons, 5 teams each. What is teh situation here? Maps are huge so one might want to increase the quantity.

Michal


The number of teams available to each battle group depends on the number of company-sized units in its force pool. So you'd need to modify FPools.txt and add more units if you wanted to make BGs have more team slots.

The maximum number is 21 teams, though how many you can select will vary by platoon type as well (a tank platoon with 5 tanks can't fully fill a 7 slot platoon, for example).






xe5 -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/21/2012 9:58:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire
The maximum number is 21 teams, though how many you can select will vary by platoon type as well (a tank platoon with 5 tanks can't fully fill a 7 slot platoon, for example).
C:\Matrix Games\Close Combat Panthers in the Fog\DATA\BASE\UnitStructure.txt can be modified to create (ahistorical) 7 tank platoons or entirely new subordinate unit organizations such as Rifle platoons available as support units so you can field an entire infantry company w/o support.

[image]local://upfiles/31774/56680A04DB0C41BDA058D77A1D0DB411.jpg[/image]




Southern_land -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/22/2012 4:24:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire


what is the maximum size of the maps?
Maximum map size is 40 x 40 mega tiles, or 120 x 120 tiles, or 7680 pixels x 7680 pixels.




So what you're saying is... Kursk size? [:D]




Southern_land -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/22/2012 4:28:52 AM)

PzIV vz T34/76 @ 7680x100 pixels




Southern_land -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/22/2012 4:29:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Southern_land

PzIV vz T34/76 @ 7680x100 pixels



[image]local://upfiles/27122/C3758D01B20C48B1BC96C3701AFD1E62.jpg[/image]




DAK_Legion -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/22/2012 7:42:55 AM)

Wow!

Kursk for panther in the fog would be great shane:)

)thanks for the screen




xe5 -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/22/2012 3:15:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Southern_land
PzIV vz T34/76 @ 7680x100 pixels

A Steppe Too Far?







zcharles -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/22/2012 8:17:01 PM)

You mean a PanzerDivision vs a tank corp with 21 vs 21 tanks... WITH NEW FOG SYSTEM? That would really allow the famous tank clash.




Southern_land -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/23/2012 4:08:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xe5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Southern_land
PzIV vz T34/76 @ 7680x100 pixels

A Steppe Too Far?


\
Hahaha


I love coming back to this thread and just scrolling...




kweniston -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/23/2012 5:53:45 PM)

I cannot believe static troops were killed off after LSA. I was sort of hoping that the CC brand was moving on a road of continuous improvement and expansion; one of the new useful features of LSA for modders were the static troops. GJS for LSA greatly benefits from this feature, and it's gone already with PitF? Unbelievable. The only reason this game exists today is because of the modders keeping it alive all these years, and this is how they're treated. I assume the blowable bridges are gone too then? What else is gone?

Well, so much for the dream of an "ultimate" 2d CC, each version will keep its flaws and shortcomings. Figures.




Tejszd -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/23/2012 8:17:22 PM)

Well put kweniston! Always found it weird with Atomic and now Matrix/Slitherine how features are dropped/unsupported in newer versions. I do not expect every game to use every feature but if its not used it doesn't have to be dropped/left not working....




Steve McClaire -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/23/2012 8:32:27 PM)

While the game is highly open to modding, and we make a significant effort to support and encourage modders, none of the CC games have ever been intended to be a 'game creation toolkit' for modders to make their own game.  It is just not practical to continue to support ever old feature from ever version of the game that has ever been released.




kweniston -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/24/2012 12:15:40 AM)

Sorry Steve, with all due respect, but then you forget that we are here today talking to each other about CC, ONLY BECAUSE of the modders that have created their own games out of the stock CC.

I think I express a popular opinion when I say that many hoped PitF would be that last ultimate 2d version, which it probably can be with some effort, which would mean that modders would be encouraged to port their (2d) mods to this final and best (2d) Close Combat game. So please, do work on bringing static troops back into the game, that one is a critical addition to the modders toolkit, creating huge new strategical possibilities. Already one of the best mods (GJS) is depending on it. Others can probably add some other great LSA/TLD or WAR features here they want to see implemented, and that most likely CAN be implemented with some effort. They already have been in the game in the past, so why remove them if you are able to keep them for us? This is the last of the 2d, why not go out with a bang?

If not, I sincerely hope the community will receive the source code of Close Combat after PitF and CC has lived out its commercial 2d lifespan, as a final, and -well deserved- token gift to the community, who have asked this for so many years now... a community which, arguably, is the REAL OWNER of this game brand. I expect a solumn ceremony to be organized when this happens. :)




xe5 -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/24/2012 12:23:49 AM)

Although I'll certainly miss the modding opportunities static BGs offered, the German counter-attack at Mortain involved large, organized, mobile formations, not the brittle, rear area, point defense aggregates represented by the b.o. BGs in LSA. Hard to fault the devs for not supporting a feature that isnt pertinent to this game. The 'ultimate' CC isnt possible - you'd never get consensus on what it should be, much less feasibly build it.




kweniston -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/24/2012 1:02:50 AM)

I get that static troops don't get used in the operations in PitF, but why drop something that is already a working feature in the CC game, you yourself say you'll miss the modding opportunities... Why not create a continously improving platform for CC? Now, it's like taking one step forward, two steps back. You get this buggy new feature, you lose this working feature... In the end, I find it disrespect to you and the other modders, and the players who so depend on you.

Also, this is completely in line with removing the direct IP multiplayer connection in PitF and forcing play via the lobby. Direct connections have been working over a decade, and now it's being removed because of "maintenance" costs? Don't give me that BS. Because of this, PitF now officially has an end-of-life countdown timer running already. Tick, tock... Only Slitherine knows when the plug will be pulled.


Edit/Update: if you're not re-implementing direct IP multiplayer connections, don't bother with doing any improvements. Somewhere in the future, PitF will not be playable anyway, after the funding for the lobby has dried up. Best to keep your profits as high possible, so you can happily return the source code to the dog loyal community, after PitF is done. The community who will then do what is needed, and what should have been done long ago. Looking forward to that day.




xe5 -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/24/2012 2:16:53 AM)

Just because a feature was previously implemented doesnt mean it wont consume scarce resources to ensure it works in the next iteration. I believe Pip's reference to 'bandwidth' meant that the dev team was already fully tasked. Now is the time to request improvements but those relating to the released design should, and will, take precedence.




kweniston -> RE: new parameters for the modders (11/24/2012 3:01:23 AM)

Last thing I will say for now on the PitF forum: if you remove a working feature (direct IP connection), make sure that the alternative (lobby) works flawlessly. Nuff said.

I was pretty supportive (bought LSA, TLD), but I will not buy PitF because of this.




CSO_Talorgan -> RE: new parameters for the modders (12/1/2012 12:32:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

none of the CC games have ever been intended to be a 'game creation toolkit' for modders to make their own game


Maybe you need to reconsider. This approach has not exactly hurt Victor Reijkersz. He's going from strength to strength.




Steve McClaire -> RE: new parameters for the modders (12/1/2012 11:41:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CSO_Talorgan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

none of the CC games have ever been intended to be a 'game creation toolkit' for modders to make their own game


Maybe you need to reconsider. This approach has not exactly hurt Victor Reijkersz. He's going from strength to strength.


I am not saying it's a bad idea, or that I wouldn't like to make such a thing myself. I am just saying that's not what the games produced under Matrix have been intended to be. They've been intended as stand alone games w/ extensive mod support, not game creation toolkits with a pre-made game thrown in. That was the distinction I was making.




SapperAstro -> RE: new parameters for the modders (12/5/2012 12:19:01 PM)

None of the CC games have been intended as game creation toolkits. Yet create they did.

It would be incredible if PitF could have all of the various 'abilities' of the older titles, even if they are not used in Pitf, lying dormant, ready to be used if needed. That way all of the older mods could be retooled and brought up to the new level, using all of their previous 'abilities' as they did in the older games.

Honestly, it would be a big selling point for this game; I can just imagine many, many thoughts inside peoples heads now;

"Hmm, should I buy this game?....but I already have the last 1/2/3/4...don't need a new one...Western Front again...hmmm..."

Modders: "Is it possible to utilise featureX from LSA/TLD/WAR/COI in PitF?"

Matrix: "Yes! PitF will allow all of the features from our previous games, even if this campaign does not utilise them"

Modders: "Excellent! Time to get all of those 50 mods retooled/New mods made/etc etc!"

Possible buyers: "Wow, did you hear that? PitF is going to have the definitive versions of mod X, and a new mod on X operation, and they use all new features only available with PitF...Gotta buy me this game!"

I know I think like that, and from interacting with my fellow man, I tend to find a lot of others seem to operate in the same manner. And the best part is that it will be a win/win for Matrix too. This is the final 2d'er for this series, therefore it won't detract from the sales of a new, super-duper, you beaut 3d series that is next on the market.

Might want to think about going for it guys and updating this puppy.




Platoon_Michael -> RE: new parameters for the modders (1/6/2013 11:55:41 AM)

Hello,
If I was interested in importing WAR to Pift how bad would it look with the Maps from WAR just being saved as 32 bit .TGA's?

Would I have to change EVERY graphic to 32 bit?




Cathartes -> RE: new parameters for the modders (1/7/2013 8:47:13 PM)

think it's a bigger project then just changing maps to 32 bit. pixel scale is all different, so you are looking at recoding all the maps as well.

EDIT: strike that, Mafi's new map maker allows you to expand the map coding after changing the pixel scale. From what I can figure you have to go into PS and expand all the map graphics (ext and int) 60% and then import accordingly. No need to recode, but you might have to redraw new roofs.

[image]local://upfiles/2187/11E8C671C4554384B3B91F96D2C6B8D8.jpg[/image]




Cathartes -> RE: new parameters for the modders (1/7/2013 9:55:52 PM)

about a 1/2 hour of work:

[image]local://upfiles/2187/15E5240637F84BDAACFFA880A0BA4014.jpg[/image]




Cathartes -> RE: new parameters for the modders (1/7/2013 10:01:11 PM)

would need to work on the tree sprites:

[image]local://upfiles/2187/8580AEAFEBB44E5B99A66A15D4014C63.jpg[/image]




Platoon_Michael -> RE: new parameters for the modders (1/7/2013 10:52:43 PM)

Any chance you can show me what the Fog looks like on that map?




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