Leaders killed by air recon (Full Version)

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morvael -> Leaders killed by air recon (11/16/2012 11:39:40 AM)

On early game turns my leader, Vatutin was killed "in action". His HQ was 3 spaces from the front, but 2 Axis recon planes were sent to his location. I ignored that.

8th Army commander Nikolai Vatutin has been KILLED in action
General-Leytenant Pyotr Pshennikov takes command of 8th Army

Now, recon planes were send again, this time next to a HQ and I lost 2 leaders of an army in a row! No other combat took place anywhere.

54th Army commander Mikhail Khozin has been KILLED in action
General-Leytenant Trifon Shevaldin takes command of 54th Army
54th Army commander Trifon Shevaldin has been KILLED in action
General-Leytenant Vasily Morozov takes command of 54th Army

This is something strange!

[image]local://upfiles/22250/1AE78633F1514C5C9E517C1D64B02FCC.jpg[/image]




morvael -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/16/2012 7:28:05 PM)

From what I know from my opponent, he also lost a leader after my recon missions. If need be, I have a savegame from just before the end of turn so if the random generator is seeded with the same value it could be possible to repeat the execution phase.




elmo3 -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/16/2012 9:20:48 PM)

Even recon aircraft like the Fi 156 had a machinegun AFAIK. Leaders can be killed by any type of enemy action and I believe that includes recon. See section 11.5 in the manual for details.




morvael -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/16/2012 9:30:00 PM)

Two in a row as well?

Even if that is so, chances than recon kills a leader should be 10 times lower (for example) than an air strike on the HQ and 100 times lower (for example) than a relocation caused by a ground unit. What I'm afraid is that the chance is the same, not depending on what caused it, and since it's easy to spam 40+ recon missions per turn they will be cause of more deaths than land combat...

In our game it's at least source of 4 deaths, perhaps more (since I know only about one case for my opponent, there may have been more).

edit: from 11.5 it looks like the chance is indeed lower and air recon is not ruled out as source of death ("other enemy action") but it's very frustrating to see it happen so often (actually it's the only source of leader deaths with the exception of June-July'41 massacres).




Denniss -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/16/2012 10:58:38 PM)

Fi 156 only had a top rear MG (not always) so hardly able to kill anyone unless flying strange maneuvers. I never heard of them carrying hand grenades or similar to drop on targets of opportunity.

This issue should be investigated if other players observe similar occurences.




TulliusDetritus -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/16/2012 11:17:14 PM)

War is hell, Morvael [8D]

Mid 1943 on my game and I have lost almost all the historical Soviet aces (yes, Vatutin among them) [:D]

Who's said the mediocres won't be getting to Berlin?* [sm=00000055.gif]

*that's purely rhetorical as I don't think I will get to the enemy capital but we will try... really hard!




morvael -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/16/2012 11:35:21 PM)

I'd accept the casualty rate for equal number of air bombings, but air recon - never. Usually the recon planes tried to do their job and return with valuable data, strafing enemy units with defensive MG was not their task.

Also, how do you explain killing commander of 54th army TWICE in one turn?




elmo3 -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/17/2012 1:17:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

I'd accept the casualty rate for equal number of air bombings, but air recon - never. Usually the recon planes tried to do their job and return with valuable data, strafing enemy units with defensive MG was not their task.

Also, how do you explain killing commander of 54th army TWICE in one turn?


There is no way to know what killed either leader as the game does not report that. Could be a bug or maybe just bad luck for that one week. If you see it repeating then keep posting please.




Pelton -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/17/2012 2:13:33 AM)

To much Vodka




cpt flam -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/17/2012 8:06:37 AM)

for me last turn was commander of XXXXI PzCorps Reinhardt
and this one commander of a Panzer army Guderian
some time ago an accident in OKH but can not remember if recon in area




morvael -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/17/2012 9:15:44 AM)

They are dying in droves! But previously you said Guderian was dismissed. Was he really killed now?




elmo3 -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/17/2012 12:30:14 PM)

Nothing has changed with the leader code in quite a while AFAIK. Will run some tests when I get a chance.




cpt flam -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/19/2012 9:22:31 AM)

must have been bad luck
this is not happening in my others games




morvael -> RE: Leaders killed by air recon (11/22/2012 3:36:23 PM)

Several more casualties later I start to suspect the culprit is not in the air recon but in distance from the front. Moving my armies to max command range (3-4 hexes from the front) is not enough to stop the leaders from dying, though (will observe it more). I don't have the possibility to promote young colonels to generals but have to do with what is given at start in the generals database - and it's shrinking fast.




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