A Question About Research (Full Version)

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tgb -> A Question About Research (11/12/2012 11:50:39 PM)

I haven't yet read the manual, so perhaps it's justified there, but why, oh why, is research structured the way it is? I'm not talking about focus points or blind research, but I don't see any reason why Austria can't research, say, air power, from the first turn.

It seems awfully gamey to me, and the one thing that is bugging me.




Lukas -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 12:25:29 AM)

Main reason is not to overwhelm a new player with too many research options. Air tech gets unlocked at turn 10 and I doubt you'll have the funds to invest in it that early in the war :)




Erik Rutins -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 1:12:08 AM)

TGB,

As Lukas said, after a few turns more tech areas become available.

Regards,

- Erik





tgb -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 12:14:04 PM)

Then why not make them all available from the start and let the player choose where he/she wants to spend research? The way it is now doesn't even make sense from a historical perspective. GB has to wait 6 turns to research naval tech? I don't get it.

Don't get me wrong, I like the game, but this was a bad mis-step imo.




Myrddraal -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 12:53:20 PM)

Hi tgb, you're right it is a bit gamey, but the idea is so that the game doesn't overwhelm new players in the first turns. It doesn't take long (in the grand scheme of things) for all the categories to become unlocked, and generally in the early turns the focus is on getting boots on the ground, research becomes more important to break stalemate. Hopefully it won't affect your game decisions too much.




Myrddraal -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 12:57:09 PM)

'All research categories unlocked' might make a good candidate for a good first mini-mod, if there are any aspiring modders out there... :)




tgb -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 1:52:34 PM)

It doesn't need to be a mod - just something in the options menu.




Myrddraal -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 2:53:25 PM)

Perhaps something for the first patch?




LuckyJim1010 -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 9:17:29 PM)

So the design decision was not to overwhelm new players by introducing new techs piecemeal.

Seriously ? In 30 years of wargaming I have never heard such a stupid argument.

I expect these sort of things from a RTS but a strategic wargame based on the 1st World War.....

I have yet to buy the game but the British being unable to research Naval Tech straight away is incredible.

And yes I am off to buy the game now. Because despite these criticisms Matrix is still very special and needs our support.




Lord Zimoa -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 9:24:47 PM)

You can research all in just a few turns after starting 1914, or just start in 1915, 1916, 1917 or 1918 as they have all tech unlocked.

The main reason was to spread technology better and also to simulate the fact that technology upgrades started to come faster and better when further in the war. It is not that there is no tech, just that we did not want to make it available exponential. In the beginning you have a lot more to worry about, and the fun is to pick your tech carefully, you don`t have the time or resources to research all. So you have a lot of choice what direction to go. Some nations, as the British, have a slight advantage in Naval tech and we tried to simulate that all across the line.

BTW We are looking at offering an alternative historical campaign option with a "free-go-tech wild" tree in the near future. For those who like to have super-subs or the best tanks by 1915, but we have to test it first a bit more.

Just try the game first I would say, you may like it.




Lord Zimoa -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 9:46:46 PM)

On a side note you have and can allocate focus points, but only one per tech technology tree. Benefits are you will get those focused techs faster, downside however it slows down the not focused other techs a bit.

So think about what you want to do and use them wisely. You can build more labs and so speed up certain trees, but remember when you change your mind and destroy a lab, you don`t get the full invested PP back, so again, choose wisely and figure out your desired tech strategy before allocating focus points and buying and adding labs!




lotharr51 -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 9:47:51 PM)

I also think this should be in the menu. It's fine to have a default for new players, but allowing the user to customize their game settings is always a welcome addition.




LuckyJim1010 -> RE: A Question About Research (11/13/2012 10:06:11 PM)

Okay - got the game. Research is the least of my worries. [:)]

And I mean that in the best possible way.




balto -> RE: A Question About Research (11/14/2012 5:43:29 PM)

"On a side note you have and can allocate focus points, but only one per tech technology tree. Benefits are you will get those focused techs faster, downside however it slows down the not focused other techs a bit."

Is this proportional? (1) What I asking is if you use the FOCUS feature, does the Lab still produce the same amount of Research?

Or (2) when you hit FOCUS it places more research into what you selected for FOCUS, but the lab's total research output is reduced?

Because if the answer is (1) then you would be crazy NOT to use the FOCUS. If the answer is (2) then maybe you would NOT use FOCUS because in the long run, you get less TOTAL RESEARCH.

thanks




patchogue -> RE: A Question About Research (11/14/2012 6:28:05 PM)

The war will be over by Christmas...why research?

Oh, a Christmas card...ah...maybe we should do some research.




Lukas -> RE: A Question About Research (11/15/2012 12:36:26 AM)

quote:

Is this proportional? (1) What I asking is if you use the FOCUS feature, does the Lab still produce the same amount of Research?

Or (2) when you hit FOCUS it places more research into what you selected for FOCUS, but the lab's total research output is reduced?


Its proportional. The research speed bonus for the focused tech is 20% (IIRC), while the total slowdown of all other techs in the category is also 20%.

As for using focus or not, it depends on whether you want to give priority to something or not. If you don't, you get the average of everything. If you focus for example industrial warfare and consecutive techs, your infantry will have good overal combat performance, but have less good entrenchment and anti-air capabilities.

Bottom line is that tech focusing is more for experienced players who focus on specialised tactics & unit types. Players who don't focus will end up with a more balanced force, which is probably easier to handle but doesn't really excel at anything.




warspite1 -> RE: A Question About Research (11/15/2012 7:25:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: patchogue

The war will be over by Christmas...why research?

Oh, a Christmas card...ah...maybe we should do some research.
warspite1

[:D]




warspite1 -> RE: A Question About Research (11/15/2012 7:29:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Myrddraal

Hi tgb, you're right it is a bit gamey, but the idea is so that the game doesn't overwhelm new players in the first turns. It doesn't take long (in the grand scheme of things) for all the categories to become unlocked, and generally in the early turns the focus is on getting boots on the ground, research becomes more important to break stalemate. Hopefully it won't affect your game decisions too much.
warspite1

You better believe it. Naval research not only can but HAS to wait until you are certain France is not going to collapse like a house of cards!!




m10bob -> RE: A Question About Research (11/15/2012 11:55:38 AM)

Just a humble opinion here. I really doubt England would even consider promoting research on naval attributes from day one, simply because they already were the zenith of naval power in 1914, bar none.
Certainly, the submarine capabilities were not yet a consideration, and English sea power was a known quantum for centuries, at that point.[:)]


BTW...My game is downloading at home, as I type this..[sm=Tank-fahr09.gif]




balto -> RE: A Question About Research (11/15/2012 4:10:57 PM)

Lukas,

Thank you for the great information.




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