Anti Aircraft bombs (Full Version)

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inqistor -> Anti Aircraft bombs (11/10/2012 8:29:58 AM)

There were few projects for Anti Aircraft bombs (dropped from planes against bomber formations). CORSAIRs were supposed to carry them. It seem Japan actually used them operationally, because they had several models available.


Does anyone tried to model them? I was thinking about adding them as additional guns, or air-air rockets (if that makes any difference), with 1 accuracy, because I do not think bombs are used in air combat. Kinda similar to tank gun - hit only with pure luck, but lots of damage.




el cid again -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/10/2012 4:21:55 PM)

The anti-aircraft bomb concept was one of those that was so ineffective the best "simulation" might be to ignore it!
That said, they probably did have occasional success. Imagine, trying to hit with an unguided ballistic bomb,
dropped from an aircraft moving in three dimensions, another aircraft also moving in three dimensions! Not quite
the same thing as aiming a machine gun! And even THAT was only effective at remarkably short ranges.

I sort of grew up with aiming weapons from airplanes as part of the atmosphere. My mother was one of the first
enlisted women in US Army service - early in 1942 (so early they didn't even have underwear for women - something
which changed very quickly!). Trained as a photographer, and taught to interpret intelligence photos, she then spent
the war with gun aiming and bomb aiming cameras, training bomber crews (which is how she met my father). For some
reason, she taught me how to make film, and develop it, from kitchen and bathroom chemicals (a wartime concept),
and how to make a camera from a shoebox with a "pinhole" for a lens! And lots about aiming guns and bomb sights -
the latter being unbelievably compicated (and not as effective as their reputation would have you believe).

If I were to model anti-aircraft bombs - and I have no such plan at this time - I would use AA rockets - and your idea of
an accuracy of 1 - and a very short range slightly better than a machine gun. [Game code ideas about "range" of AA
weapons are very statistical - MG with a range of 1 will sometimes hit at a range of 3 or 4!] AA bombs were intended to
be dropped on bomber formations (which could not maneuver much and were somewhat predictable) from above -
yielding multiple potential targets. So the "range" would be perhaps in the 5 - 10 range - you had to drop ahead of the
formation so they might meet it when they reached its altitude.




castor troy -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/11/2012 3:18:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

There were few projects for Anti Aircraft bombs (dropped from planes against bomber formations). CORSAIRs were supposed to carry them. It seem Japan actually used them operationally, because they had several models available.


Does anyone tried to model them? I was thinking about adding them as additional guns, or air-air rockets (if that makes any difference), with 1 accuracy, because I do not think bombs are used in air combat. Kinda similar to tank gun - hit only with pure luck, but lots of damage.



Is there any serious account stating any kill with these weapons, or that they were even deployed?




inqistor -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/11/2012 9:31:27 PM)

If there are any statistics they would be solely Japanese (because I do not think anyone else used them operationally), and considering their overly optimistic estimates on enemy subs, those statistics also will be useless.

I am reading O-23, and IJN alone had around 5 models for them, so they were definitely used frequently (first model adopted in 1939).
Actually, the main reason I am thinking about implementing them, is to add them to planes which players do not build, to reach more historical production numbers-models.

[image]local://upfiles/35065/F2AF86520CBB45AE83485EFA709CD46D.jpg[/image]




GI Jive -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/12/2012 1:35:23 AM)

The bombs were definitely used operationally but I don't think they were effective. Here's a link with more info including several photos of them in use. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=96475




JeffK -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/12/2012 3:50:18 AM)

The RAF used them and I believe scored 1 kill during the Blitz. (But I might be thinking of a "towed mine", have to look it up)

edit: These were the LAM, I cant remember the full name. I believe a HP Hereford or similar obsolete bomber towed on and hit a German Bomber in 1940-41.




el cid again -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/12/2012 4:33:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

There were few projects for Anti Aircraft bombs (dropped from planes against bomber formations). CORSAIRs were supposed to carry them. It seem Japan actually used them operationally, because they had several models available.


Does anyone tried to model them? I was thinking about adding them as additional guns, or air-air rockets (if that makes any difference), with 1 accuracy, because I do not think bombs are used in air combat. Kinda similar to tank gun - hit only with pure luck, but lots of damage.



Is there any serious account stating any kill with these weapons, or that they were even deployed?



I believe I have read accounts of both German and Japanese use. They were not regarded as effective.




castor troy -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/13/2012 8:01:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

There were few projects for Anti Aircraft bombs (dropped from planes against bomber formations). CORSAIRs were supposed to carry them. It seem Japan actually used them operationally, because they had several models available.


Does anyone tried to model them? I was thinking about adding them as additional guns, or air-air rockets (if that makes any difference), with 1 accuracy, because I do not think bombs are used in air combat. Kinda similar to tank gun - hit only with pure luck, but lots of damage.



Is there any serious account stating any kill with these weapons, or that they were even deployed?



I believe I have read accounts of both German and Japanese use. They were not regarded as effective.



I knew about the German and read about their deploy but didn't remember anything about the Japanese. Now that I saw the phosphorus clouds around USAAF bomber formations I can also remember about having seen these before. Never heard about achieving a kill with these weapons though.




JeffK -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/13/2012 9:10:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

The RAF used them and I believe scored 1 kill during the Blitz. (But I might be thinking of a "towed mine", have to look it up)

edit: These were the LAM, I cant remember the full name. I believe a HP Hereford or similar obsolete bomber towed on and hit a German Bomber in 1940-41.

The Long Aerial Mines
Many small explosive chrges suspended from a parachute with a 2000ft length of piano wire dangling below.
No 420 Flight equipped with HP Harrow trialled this for 3 months and made 4-5 claims.

Probably more effective than the Blenheim 1F Nightfighter!!




inqistor -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/17/2012 8:45:14 AM)

Hmm, I thought it would be something like horrible accuracy, but pretty good damage, but from pictures it seems to be more like not-that-bad accuracy (size of explosion), but poor damage.


Let me check this other version, with parachute bombs on wires. Navy had only one model, but I have to check Army models...




inqistor -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/18/2012 10:03:24 AM)

OK quick research. There was 3 types of bombs:

1) 1/3-1 kg - dropped in containers for few dozens (30-76). Standard small bombs, with hope, that they will hit plane.
2) The one from pictures above - lots of models, mainly Navy.
3) Parachute, with 164 ft cable - plane could trip, and pull on cable, and bomb would hit it, and explode. Only Army used it.




Dili -> RE: Anti Aircraft bombs (11/18/2012 6:59:44 PM)

Italians used them too against American bombers in 1943, they not considered it effective starting with fact that it was timer fuse not not a proximity one...




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