RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (Full Version)

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Pelton -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/10/2013 10:13:58 PM)

Yes you have to attack during spring to keep the fort belt down and build morale.

But Sapper has no exp in spring 42 or summer as very few do.

Even MT has zero exp past March 42, SHC or GHC.

The games have had a very short life.

Poeple keep saying you must do this or that as GHC, but vs a good SHC player there just words.

After .13 of all the games started zero have been a run away, zero have taken Moscow and only 2 GHC players I know of are playing into 1943

GHC players simply are thinking short term and not 41-45.

GHC players still have this mind set that they can take out SHC in 41, its simply impossible vs a semi skilled SHC player. VS a good player with the short term mind set your toast in 42 = Sapper and Bomazz.

Again of all the AAR's posted I only see 2 GHC players playing past 1942.

There is something wrong or GHC mind set has to change.

Its some of both.




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/11/2013 7:49:49 AM)

I've received Saper's next turn and, as you'll see when I get a chance to finish my turn, things are not going entirely my way. He isolated several of my units, including a Guards Rifle Corps and a Guards Cavalry Corps, and may be poised for a breakout just south of Boguchar.

FYI, when I asked Saper a week or so ago it sounded like he had TDV on the ropes in their game as well. So I would say he is doing very well as GHQ thank you very much. I am certainly not counting my chickens in this one yet.




Pelton -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/11/2013 8:27:00 AM)

quote:

Him getting a pocket small pocket is going to happen. In the AAR's that poeple do get into 43 as GHC post .13 they are able to get small pockets and keep going into October.

The key is how quickly you get him to wear out. The only way you can screw up is not follow Flaviusx advise. You should NOT be building Corp of any kind other then a few infantry Corp near Moscow.

I did not build any Corp until late 42 when GHC had punched themselfs out.


Him getting a pocket small pocket is going to happen. In the AAR's that poeple do get into 43 as GHC post .13 they are able to get small pockets and keep going into October.

The key is how quickly you get him to wear out. The only way you can screw up is not follow Flaviusx advise. You should NOT be building Corp of any kind other then a few infantry Corp near Moscow.

I did not build any Corp until late 42 when GHC had punched themselfs out.

Stay solid in north and bend in south same stuff as summer.




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/12/2013 1:54:56 AM)

T54

Moscow Area After my turn. Saper is pressing here with an all infantry assault. I continue to counterattack where I can, but he is slowly pushing me back. I do not mind. He is taking heavy casualties as am I, but I can afford them.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/A25736DC057946F3829C9E5F8B3538F1.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/12/2013 1:57:05 AM)

Tula Area before my turn. I got too aggressive last turn and it is going to cost me two Corps, a Rifle and a cavalry.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/A945B993279B4DD296147BD23D387385.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/12/2013 2:22:48 AM)

Orel/Tula Area After my turn.

I temporarily rescued my units and inflicted heavy casualties on the German mobile forces. But Saper will re-isolate them next turn.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/F63E671C3E17463FB8905531B221B519.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/12/2013 2:36:19 AM)

Voronezh Area after my turn. There was no hope of rescuing the 3 trapped rifle divisions, so I contented myself with giving his panzers West of Voronezh a bloody nose. It will be interesting to see what Saper does with his panzers in this area. I would love it if he tried to force a crossing of the Don here, but I doubt he will. Rather I suspect he may send them North and use them in conjunction with his units around Orel to try and envelop my Bryansk Front. If so I am hoping a lack of fuel will prevent him from being successful. Alternatively he may send them South to join up with his mobile forces there that may be on the verge of a breakthrough. Of course, he may split them up and do both.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/ABCEB354CDF14C779A1769C55F7CD3FF.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/12/2013 2:41:28 AM)

Voroshilovgrad Area before my turn. It was easy to restore supply to the trapped units, but getting them out of harms way proved impossible.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/5BF027E133D6489290BEB0BD94665598.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/12/2013 2:48:45 AM)

Voroshilovgrad Area after my Turn. My failed attack on the units circled in red meant that not only was my unit circled in green unable to escape, but also that my Guards division circled in blue was 1 MP short of what it needed to escape over the river. I will have to wait and see if Saper adds it to the bagged units.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/849A094EC0B143DDBCC69454CA364F58.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/12/2013 2:55:01 AM)

The DR SS Motorized, and the 25th Motorized are no longer spotted in the Taman Peninsula. I was tempted to rail my Shock Army (with 4 Cavalry Corps) elsewhere, but decided to wait at least a turn. Due to Flavius's nagging (honest to god he is almost as bad as my wife) I garrison the two local cities.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/A2B8ABDCF3FD4937A8AF4E27C91F1BF7.jpg[/image]




Marquo -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/12/2013 3:48:20 AM)

Becareful to watch where his main panzer forces are heading southeast and build more defensive belts; consider shifting some units from where he only has infantry. I captured Stalingrad in fall 1942 and he is on track to do the same. Too many manpower centers for you to lose; hopefully it is evacuated.

Marquo [;)]




Pelton -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/12/2013 4:16:29 AM)

Good turn for you HB, nice counter attacks.

Sappers making a huge 42 mistake, he should have all but 3-6 panzer units in a panzer ball.

This has greatly weakened his 42 summer opening, big mistake.

Really weak opening, kinda surpised. If he stays spread out and you keep counter attacking he be out of steam by end of July.

Dont think he has any post March 42 exp.

Build allot more infantry divisions, 4 per turn min




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/13/2013 12:03:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Becareful to watch where his main panzer forces are heading southeast and build more defensive belts; consider shifting some units from where he only has infantry. I captured Stalingrad in fall 1942 and he is on track to do the same. Too many manpower centers for you to lose; hopefully it is evacuated.

Marquo [;)]


T 55 has been received. No new disasters to report.

The 13 panzer/motorized divisions he had near Voronezh have all headed North. So all he has in the South to drive on Stalingrad with are the 10 he has here now plus the 25th motorized that he has moved up from the Taman peninsula. But Stalingrad is evacuated anyway.




Pelton -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/13/2013 12:56:49 AM)

Good job HB, Sappers made 2 mistakes in 42.

No spring pushes and he has split up his panzers.

Only 13 turns of clear left.




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/13/2013 1:28:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Good turn for you HB, nice counter attacks.

Sappers making a huge 42 mistake, he should have all but 3-6 panzer units in a panzer ball.

This has greatly weakened his 42 summer opening, big mistake.


I agree.

quote:

Really weak opening, kinda surpised. If he stays spread out and you keep counter attacking he be out of steam by end of July.


I am also surprised by the weakness of his 42 offensive so far. I was expecting to lose more units by now. But there is still a long summer ahead of us. Not sure about the end of July being the end of his offensive. But I think he will have to rest his panzers for a bit anyway.


quote:

Dont think he has any post March 42 exp.


Yes he does, against me in our first game and against Kamil. Though in the game against Kamil he was on the offensive throughout 42.

quote:

Build allot more infantry divisions, 4 per turn min


If I spend 40 APs a turn on new rifle divisions alone I won't be able to save the 500 I need for January 1943 to mass build rifle corps. Besides one of the things I am short on at the moment is manpower. I am using up my 94,000 per turn just on replacements for my existing units. I'm also short Armaments.




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 2:51:47 AM)

T55

The North: Only one Battle.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/27B562F57B664FF4B14404A7D69DEA14.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 2:53:22 AM)

Moscow Area: More of the same as I am slowly pushed back.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/6BAAFDBE45CA484688A4E2617328C12B.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 3:09:14 AM)

Tula Area: My attempt to relieve my trapped Corps was savagely beaten back. My attack on his panzer units was equally unsuccessful. But at least no new units were surrounded.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/73CA0C48D93248BB87C0B902BCA79929.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 3:11:21 AM)

I meant to take screenshots of both failed attacks, but I screwed up an only got the one of them.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/D73BF6A81C334647A679EA161A6391C7.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 3:16:15 AM)

I had far more success in the South where I was miraculously able to unisolate my 4 trapped rifle divisions and bloody his panzers to boot. There were no attacks made South of this screenshot. As his mobile forces appear to have left the Taman Peninsula I redeployed the Shock Army I had located there.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/41025C922ED4454EAA627ECECD2C728D.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 3:17:26 AM)

The panzer's bloody nose

[image]local://upfiles/14737/F11C7184875849CAA311CB34DFD914C4.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 3:19:52 AM)

The 3 lucky attacks to liberate my trapped divisions. Of course they are doomed anyway.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/66AE7D04D67F447F9F19981BA0091B69.jpg[/image]




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 3:25:50 AM)

OOB, Losses and Production. If you compare this with my post of a few turns ago you will see that I have put some hurt on Saper, especially to his tank numbers. But I'm still not "banking" any manpower myself. I did have about 450,000 Armaments prior to this turns "squad reorganization" drain.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/510EEBC19620404AA1F0DA936FD9A762.jpg[/image]




randallw -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 9:08:43 AM)

The German side can't afford such hefty losses to the panzer divs.




Pelton -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 11:27:11 AM)

Yes because game balance is so far off HB will be on offensive by November 42 or sooner.

Dispite sappers better then historical 1941 game is sadly still way out of balance and will end mid to late 44

SHC has no manpower or armaments issues dispite hvy fighting in 42 and 43. Both pools grow every turn.

Game is not close to balanced / playable, unless SHC is just screwing up building the wrong stuff.

All things being equal GHC is better of retreating before blizzard and digging in at rivers, you get the same result or better.




timmyab -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 2:14:25 PM)

Saper is totally fried in this game.And this is one of the strongest Axis players out there.
1942 is completely out of whack.If the Axis can't make significant gains in 42 then the game becomes boring for both players.Six months of fun followed by three years of WW I style warfare, and we all know how popular WW I games are.
The blizzard needs taming for a start.
I'd also lower the Soviet leader ratings across the board in 41 and 42 by one point for each category and make it more difficult to swap out bad leaders.Maybe only allow leaders to be swapped out after they've reached a certain number of loss results and only allow promotion after they've got a minimum number of win results.
Well done by the way Harry, you must be a strong player to hold Saper comfortably like this.




Marquo -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 5:26:54 PM)

Maybe, just maybe it is not the game, but the players have not mastered the intricacies? Not casting aspersions, but ii is an alternate hypothesis.




Pelton -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 5:55:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Maybe, just maybe it is not the game, but the players have not mastered the intricacies? Not casting aspersions, but ii is an alternate hypothesis.


As I stated months and months ago when .13 was released.

1. SHC simply has to move 20 or so units to north and defend north to south.
2. Everything can easly be railed out, NP
3. Leningrad is being held 50% of the time and moscow is not possible to take unless SHC is a total newbie vs very exped GHC.
4. average to good SHC can easly keep loses under 3 million, I did first game as SHC 2.8 very easy to do.
5. Blizzard is a disaster for GHC because they fase 5 million man SHC, my first blizzard I pocketed 20 division and almost got a full army group.
6. By summer GHC infantry morale is in the dumps.
7. SHC has a 7 million man army by June in game after game.
8. By August 42 GHC has to go over to defensive and is getting driven west during 42/43 winter in game after game
9. Game over set match by mid to late 44.

We have more then a dozen games now and its all the same song and dance as I predicted long ago. The best GHC players are being beaten easly, even when they have a better then historical 1941.

You can stick your head in the sand and ignore the data, but it doesn't change whats going on.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3267634




gingerbread -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 8:02:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

...I'm still not "banking" any manpower myself. I did have about 450,000 Armaments prior to this turns "squad reorganization" drain.


I can't see the point of having manpower in the pool - in your case it's due to that they are in the units, a much more effective use of them, or? [;)]

It shows that you:
1) have enough units to receive the men and that in turn shows that you are not subject to an AP squeeze (yet, at least) and
2) that you have (had) enough ARM to equip the men.

1) will most likely hold true if you continue to show the quality of play seen thus far, but 2) will most likely change for the worse since there are many more Rifle Squads that will upgrade and the weakest link in the chain in your case is the ARM factory number. So don't plan on building any Rocket Divisions in '42 (and probably not in '43 either). They are expensive (easy to check with a napkin calculation)!

Your army is many sigmas of the mean, but fortunately there is the non-attrition period as a counterweight to the clamouring from the gallery.




M60A3TTS -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (2/14/2013 9:01:48 PM)

It's still early summer, and I wouldn't bury Saper yet.




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