taking bridges - AI behavior (Full Version)

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phoenix -> taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 10:07:45 AM)

I've noticed that your chances of taking a bridge without it being blown in your face increase by an enormous amount if you bombard/fire on the positions where the defenders are (or where you guess they will be, if you can't actually see them) well before you approach the bridge. In the HTTR scenarios, for example, you are almost guaranteed to take Grave bridge if you get Easy Company of 504 to fire on the bridge defenders, instead of trying to rush them, whilst at the same time bringing the 504 mortar platoon quickly into range and bombarding the defenders at the same time as easy company is firing - all this BEFORE your main body of 504 begins an attack. If you just give a battallion order to take the bridge then the bombard doesn't happen and 4 out of 5 times the bridge will blow in your face. Similarly, if you give the battallion that order but also give a separate, urgent take crossing order to Easy Co then 4 out of 5 times it goes bang.

So. In order to be successful, it seems, I really have to micro-manage this battallion attack a little. I have to give 3 separate orders. By itself the battallion will not plan an attack on the bridge which involves a prior bombard etc. Is this how the designers of the game envisaged play should be, I ask? It's not quite the complete hands-off orders-at-battallion-level play that the tutorial suggests, for example.

[image]local://upfiles/36260/ABE3E40048B84AFA8BF702EBE0F9C590.gif[/image]




phoenix -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 10:12:52 AM)

Should add - frequently, if you bombard the defenders enough beforehand that alone results in the bridge becoming unprimed. Very nice. Presumably the shells cut the wires etc.




SapperAstro -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 1:45:16 PM)

Ha, yes I learned that trick in Conquest of the Aegean. The way I learned it, through frustration and reloading of the same scenario about 10 times, then just ordering everything to open fire at the bridge still amuses me to this day.




vandorenp -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 7:23:30 PM)

Whether by accident or comprehensive design the experience described here is realistic. [Consistent with my military history studies and experience as infantry officer] See Duffers Drift http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Defence_of_Duffer%27s_Drift

The question is, would 100 repetitions of AI controlled attacks have some iterations properly suppress the bridge demo party. Would a given bn, in a controlled scenario with many bridge seizures, make the attack the same way ever time?




phoenix -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 7:29:21 PM)

I must have done a 100 iterations, easily, Van. There was never that kind of behaviour. Is it even possible, Dave/Arjuna? Is it even possible that the AI - if you gave a battalion order to take a crossing - would give those tasks to E company and the mortar platoon? I assumne not.




wodin -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 9:53:39 PM)

Sometimes you do have to do abit of micro managing...not sure I've ever played any scenario where I haven't micor managed at some point for abit. For me it isn't really an issue...I'd rather other things where looked at or added to the game.

Also bombarding or firing on the defenders makes kind of sense it will have an impact on whether the troops are able to blow the bridge..




phoenix -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 10:02:00 PM)

Yes. It's not an issue for me either, Wodin. But I wuld like to know if I NEED to do this, or if the AI will ever do it.




Arjuna -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 11:06:35 PM)

Whether the AI will fire and bvombard will depend on line of sight. Attacks per se do not include a preparatory bombardment. They used to back in the original RDOA days but we opted instead for on call fire support as it was difficult to cater for all the nuances that can apply - eg how long the assault is likely to take before it gets to the objective, whether we want the prep fire intense just before the assault troops hit the objective or sustained throughout the whole assault, whether we have enough ammo etc. I have been condiering whther to re-introduce a prep bomb task into the attack but as usual there have been other more pressing issues to attend to.

Having said that if you order an attack and have on call support and the enemy near the objective can be seen and are the closest threat then they should get hit by the fire support.




phoenix -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 11:11:30 PM)

Thanks Dave. I'll try it. Easy co can see the enemy, so if I dedicate fire support for the battallion, they should hit it. I'll try it now.




phoenix -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 11:17:36 PM)

Yeah!!! Silly me to doubt your programming. this is what they did. I gave a simple attack order, with dedictaed arty support. They moved to these positions and the mortar platoon bombarded the defenders! brilliant. Easy company is doing bugger all, sadly, over the other side, and I'm not sure whether the bombard will have been enough to stop them blowing the bridge. But they did do it. GREAT GAME! I never doubted it.....

[image]local://upfiles/36260/D642E199DCD844F486AA34F2D3A25CB4.gif[/image]




Arjuna -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 11:19:49 PM)

As for Easy Coy, I'd recommend you assign a Fire order directly to him. That way with the minimum micromanaging you get the desired result. [:)]




phoenix -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 11:24:12 PM)

I let it run. They took the bridge intact. With just one battalion level order. An Attack - not a 'Secure Crossing' order, as I usually do. With - and I guess this might have been important - 'arty direct spt only' checked.

Great. Thanks dave. I learned somethig there.




phoenix -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 11:27:23 PM)

Easy company did nothing until 6pm. Maybe their radios weren't working. At 6 they got orders and crossed bridge. It was all ok in the end, though....




phoenix -> RE: taking bridges - AI behavior (10/29/2012 11:30:03 PM)

I should say that different bridges yield different results (naturally). This tactic - bombarding heavily beforehand - for example, doesn't necessarilly help, I've found, with the Trois Ponts bridges in Piper's Race. You really have to pour fire on the defenders there to stop them blowing the things. And even then they sometimes still do.




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