RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (Full Version)

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KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/19/2012 10:49:22 PM)

T16 north (German)

Condition of AGN forces at the beginning of turn 16.

Repetitive and very often unsuccessful assaults on Soviet positions taken its toll. Having 2 inf div with strength 4 at the beginning of T16 is quite an achievement :).


KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/19/2012 11:01:45 PM)

T16 centre (German)

This is situation at the beginning of German turn. Two corps from 1 Pz Group (Orel area) had HQ build-up last turn.


KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/19/2012 11:10:50 PM)

T16 casualties (German)

Aggressive stance takes its toll. German losses are over 500k.


Pelton -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/20/2012 3:21:09 AM)



It is quite funny thing, that at Leningrad approaches both of us evaluated other side being much much stronger. After reading this part of AAR and seeing real strength of Mike's troops I feel, that pouring arriving reinforcements into AGN area would have made the difference, but I have to say, that I do not regret not doing it.

I strongly believe that Leningrad is secondary objective and prioritising AGN over AGC has to be really justified by favourable developments.

It is either everything or nothing. Terrain favours defender massively, limits possible direction of assault and its remote location prevents using engaged troops elsewhere for 2-3 turns.

Don't get me wrong, Leningrad has to be attacked, but I strongly believe it is up to Soviet player to lose it or not. Axis should avoid overcommitting there.

The number one objective is Leningrad and the south. If you do one and not the other its no good enough to win or atleast have a chance.

Moscow is impossible as we have seen with some of the best verse average players its still not takeable. Even very good vs below average.

The south is still a cake walk, Leningrad I think is not that hard IF you throw allot into it and drive striaght for it. Moscow sure needs to be pushed, but only to give back land during blizzard then take it out the following summer.

Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/21/2012 6:06:11 PM)

I agree with you Pelton. But Kamil choose third ojectve - manpower and successed with this. Lets see what is the next.

T16 (start) 02.10.1941. Leningrad is now held for sure ! Great celeration on Nevsky prospect, Stalin allowed ministration in Isakievsky Church.


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/21/2012 6:09:35 PM)

T16 (start) 02.10.1941. Great Vyazma pocket. Bigger than historical.


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/21/2012 6:13:10 PM)

T16 (start) 02.10.1941. Donbass area. All evacuated here long time ago. We have 360 AP, and did not loose any important factories ecept HI.


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/21/2012 6:54:54 PM)

T17. 09.10.1941. Final situation before the mud. Leningradf held, Moscow held, all AP evacuated.


KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/22/2012 5:53:47 PM)

T18 OOB/casualties (German)

I was really grateful that Mike didn't withdrawn. Having slim chances of capturing Moscow and jeopardising winter preparations in order to have any was alternative I was really afraid of.

Encircling 30 units was crucial development, that made me consider mounting crazy snow offensive.

Pocketed formations:

Vyazma - 16 inf div, 2 cav div, 2 tank brig and 1 unidentified unit
Kaluga - 7 inf div, 1 cav div

far south - 2 inf div


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/22/2012 9:14:40 PM)

Kamil frankly speaking I expected to save some units from there but you made pocket very tight although I could open it. I had potentially enough forces there to puch one stack of tanks on one side of the neck but not both. That is why I did not risk to attack - even in success this could save only nearest two or three dvisions. Anyways, history doesnt know subjunctive.

Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 7:59:55 AM)

T22. 13.11.1941. Leningrad area. We start counteroffensive from here.


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 8:04:17 AM)

T22. 13.11.1941. Moscow region and Tula pocket. Here is my mistake I had to withdraw to Ryazan.


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 8:08:43 AM)

T22. 13.11.1941. Donbass pocket. Also my strategic bludner.


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 8:15:49 AM)

T23. North and Center.


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 8:31:39 AM)

T23. 20.11.1941. South.


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 8:37:38 AM)

Kamil I dont have T24, would you please post summary statistics of the Fall campaign and some screens.

Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 9:06:26 AM)

First Shock Army (T25 condition). I nursed this "yellow" units from T1 and now they are collected here from all fronts, refited and ready for REVENGE!


Pelton -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 5:12:56 PM)

Were the pockets closed after November 1st? If they were thats a good hit to SHC AP crunch long term for sure.

GHC dispite not takeing Leningrad is not in that bad of shape becuase they managed to take the hills and SHC OOB is low. Not sure what it is on Dec 1st, but guessing not close to 5 million.

Blizzard will tell allot if SHC has a good one.

Long run I don't see GHC being strong enough to push towards Moscow and will have to settle for holding Tula north and playing in the south during 42.

Good game.

Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 5:41:51 PM)

Yes they were. Surpisingly due to my mistakes and Kamil's correct play during Fall campaign this game near balance. On T25 (December, 4) I lost 3 550 000 and have only 4 600 000 in service. So I need to squeeze maksimum with this not so perfect situation. Newerertheless, I did not lost any AP, industry and have a lot of "yellow" units with high morale. Victory will be ours! No pasaran!

KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 9:51:50 PM)

Failing to capture any of major manpower centres and destroy armament industry forced me to undertake massive snow offensive. I risked and jeopardised preparation for blizzard, but I think it was right choice.

After successful November I evaluated, that Mike can't be strong, so I expected to held to important positions - Vyazma/Bryansk and Stalino.

It turned out I was wrong and I have massively underestimated Red Army ...

T24 north (German)

Withdrawal. There is northing here worth fighting for.


KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 9:55:03 PM)

T24 centre (German)

Panzers are on their way to cosy winter quarters.


KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 9:59:09 PM)

T24 south (German)

Romanian and Hungarian mountain troops under command of Manstein will move further south and protect left flank of Stalino area.


KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 10:01:40 PM)

T24 Crimea (German)

As long as I do not loose my precious Romanian ants I am happy.


KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/25/2012 10:09:03 PM)

T24 OOB/casualties (German)

This was very intensive summer/autumn campaign, although until turn 9 I was clearly loosing it. Now I feel I have genuine chance of getting something.

Formations destroyed in November:

Infantry - 40 div, 5 brig
Cavalry - 6 div
Tank/Motorised - 2 div, 4 brig
AA - 3 reg


Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/27/2012 5:52:11 PM)

T25. 04.12.1941 GO WEST!


KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/27/2012 8:08:29 PM)

Comparing Mike's plans and reality is quite terrifying.

Saper2229 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/27/2012 8:11:15 PM)

Mike, you built very many 280mm Siege Mortar, 203mm Howitzer - why? (used only fort 3 maybe 2 - have start guns). Built more other gun and rifle sguad more effective. 85 mm AAG built 1673 - do you used this for 41a AT Art Reg?

Mike29 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/27/2012 8:38:31 PM)

Saper, regarding 280mm I just was thinking to dismiss some of them but now they are already experienced.  I catch you point, yes they are quit expensive and ineffective in defensive war. I was wrong to build them. Regarding 85mm - yes, for 41a AT. Regarding 203mm - whats wrong with them? I like it.

Now I'm thinking to reorganize army to 122mm standard + 80/120mm mortars + 203mm, what do you think? What is your basic support structure of ordinary army?

Saper2229 -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/27/2012 9:47:46 PM)

I prefer guns with low build cost and more rate of fire (152mm, 152 mm GH, 122 A19). 203mm need very many ammo - you was Low MP in  Army units where 203 mm have. If you have more Machine Gun in divisions no more 203 mm in HG - the Germany losses will more heavy. I use 6 280 mm and 6 203mm only assaul Fort 3 (place in Lock M.D.)  

KamilS -> RE: ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) (11/27/2012 11:25:57 PM)

T26 north (German) 2nd turn of blizzard, Dec '41

I dare to post few more maps, because I feel Mike's report is not detailed enough to understand developments of the situation during next few turns.

North is stripped of panzers and best formations so there is no chance for holding ground. My only concern is not loosing units. I hope spring will come before Red Army reaches river Daugava.

7th Fliger Division is sent on suicide mission - it withdraws in 2 turns. I hope Mike takes the bait and tries to pocket it.


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