I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (Full Version)

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pearshape -> I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/23/2012 1:45:35 AM)

Images and sounds and a few text files to me are the more superficial things and I know for some this enough but I want more!

I say lets "open this game up" and let us mod the real meat and potatoes of this game, the component stats and AI auto design.
I know you matrix probly want to make such improvements in patchs but I think the community can make improvements 100 times faster.

So anyway I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding.

Is it a technical thing ? a matrix economic policy ? or just lazyness ?




Nedrear -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/23/2012 1:27:30 PM)

Careful man. You criticize hard and unprofessional.

First:

We can already add our own ship designs to the AI auto choice.

Second:

We can mod nearly every hull component of the game if we change the vanilla files. Sure some core things are missing. We can not change the tech tree for example or the module values without a serious programming effort. But maybe we can later on.
We can replace the original sound and image files in the data folder but we need a safecopy of the old ones to replace them if wanted.

Third:

Show me an 4X game that lets you do that with as much as Notepad++ and gives you a mod pdf and than criticize Matrix Games for a limited modability. I can add races with their own designs, pictures, ship hierachy, military preferance etc. and mod resources and many more.

Do I want more options like the occurence of resources on planets to be determined anew or add more resources for my GW II mod? Yes!
Do I would like to redefine the tech tree and its components? Not really apart of the resource consumption of the components, but mods like Star Trek should love it completly for sure.
Does it have priority to make an easy interface to do so? No! Can you do it as a good programmer yourself hacking the core files? Yes!

Seriously apart of some games like Elder Scrolls I rarely saw a real and simple Editor to mod an entire game. What is the problem here? We get more mod options every expansion because we ask for them, but we clearly don't bash the programmer for it in our first post in the forum.




ehsumrell1 -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/23/2012 4:26:17 PM)

Thanks Nedrear...well said! [:)]




Kalthaniell -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/23/2012 6:06:22 PM)

You've said what we all think Nedrear. And with style :)




Shark7 -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/23/2012 7:31:52 PM)

I would love to be able to mod the resources. But, just because I can't doesn't mean the game isn't very mod friendly, it really is mod friendly.

Then again, I'd also like to have a full manufacturing model where you take the resources to make the widgets that make the parts that make the ship, etc. I think very much more involved than most players want. [;)] In other words, I'd never be able to play cause I'd never finish modding, I'd always find something else to add.




RaffleSnaffle -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/23/2012 10:25:48 PM)

I have NO idea how to mod. Just install them [:'(]

I think what we have so far is wonderful for a game with the community being as small as it is. (Shame, but maybe is another reason why this game is so great?)

Also impressed by how closely the dev's pay attention and implement MOST of what the community asks for. The love they have for this project is extremely evident.

This may be the smallest online community I have ever been apart of, but it has been one of the best experiences online I have ever had.

Yay for a great game and an even better community!!




tjhkkr -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/23/2012 11:36:40 PM)

I would love to modify ship weapon ranges and stuff like that... but you know by the various files you can mod and the tech levels you can establish pretty much whatever you want...

You can deny certain weapons to certain races; you can focus races on certain things...
There is a lot one can do with what we have...




pearshape -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/24/2012 9:32:30 AM)

The original question was not rhetorical.


I admit that I missed that about the info about the auto designing I have searched these forums first about the things I want to know but not successfully it seems and have also checked the modding guide.

I guess a lot of the good information I want to know is buried in this forum.
Basically Im just trying to do 2 things, a computer player that plays better without non player advantages and
some kind of economic adjustment to the components.

Im lazily used to sticky FAQ threads and wikis from other games.








Shark7 -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/24/2012 10:13:10 AM)

If you are simply trying to make the components cost more (in the trade screen) then the easy way to do it in a game you set up is to go the part about research (with the slider that let's you go from fast to slow) and type 999 in the box beside it. That sets the research cost to max.

You won't be able to adjust component costs without getting into the code since it is hard-coded, and I can't help you there.

You can help the AI empires by modding the race files for the race you do not plan to play. IE make a copy of the races folder, create a new theme and paste it in there. Then you can make a back up, mod each file, and choose the one you want to play and replace it with the original (IE swap them back and forth).

The places that can make the most difference in the text file are this area:


'Ship Maintenance Savings: percentage rate of savings on maintenance costs for ships and bases
ShipMaintenanceSavings ;20

'Troop Maintenance Savings: percentage rate of savings on maintenance costs for troops
TroopMaintenanceSavings ;0

'Resource Extraction Bonus: percentage rate of speed increase for all mining operations
ResourceExtractionBonus ;0

'War Weariness Attenuation: percentage rate of reduction in war weariness
WarWearinessAttenuation ;0

'Satisfaction Modifier: percentage rate of happiness bonus at colonies
SatisfactionModifier ;0

'Research Bonus: percentage rate of speed increase for research
ResearchBonus ;10

'Espionage Bonus: percentage rate of skill bonus for all intelligence missions
EspionageBonus ;0

'Trade Bonus: percentage rate of bonus for colony income
TradeBonus ;0



And further down in the file, you will find this:

'Ship Size Factor Civilian - resize factor for maximum civilian ship sizes
ShipSizeFactorCivilian ;1.0

'Ship Size Factor Military - resize factor for maximum military ship sizes
ShipSizeFactorMilitary ;1.2

'Disallowed Research Areas 1,2,3: areas that this race cannot research: 0=None, 1=Torpedoes, 2=Missiles, 3=Area Weapons, 4=Ion Weapons, 5=Fighters, 6=Armor, 7=Hyper Disruption, 8=Sensors
DisallowedResearchArea1 ;0
DisallowedResearchArea2 ;0
DisallowedResearchArea3 ;0

'Additional Intelligence Agents: number of extra intelligence agents allowed above normal limit
AdditionalIntelligenceAgents ;0

'Construction Speed Factor: increase or decrease construction speed. Faster construction speeds can especially affect colonization, allowing fast building of new colony ships. Minimum value = 0.3. Maximum value = 3.0
ConstructionSpeedFactor ;1.6



Also, you can use these to make the race you want to play harder, by giving them reduced income and increased costs (by using negative numbers), smaller ships, slower construction, and even disabling certain techs.

See there really is a lot of modifiability in the game, you just have to get under the hood so to speak.




Nedrear -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/24/2012 2:43:55 PM)

Shark he wanted a way to influence them without "non player advantages". These would be non player advantages. In other words he hopes for a better AI and a chance to mod the resource cost of components. I would like both too, but not in his initial tone.




w1p -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/24/2012 4:17:54 PM)

"Mod Friendly" is different now than how it used to be.

Most games developed now that are serious games and not just eye candy with no substance tend be open in nearly every aspect. I would say DW is moddable, but not modder friendly as there is quite a chunk of the game off limits to modding.

In no way a bash, just an opinion




ASHBERY76 -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/24/2012 5:42:17 PM)

Most of the "real" game is hardcoded apart from superficial elemements.Most 4x games are much more open to modding than DW.Modding a resource name or race picture is superficial.Modding the resource value,adding tech or and changing the actual economic costs is real modding.




Nedrear -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/24/2012 7:00:12 PM)

I still wait for a real example which 4x game is highly moddable, how much exactly and what programs are needed apart of a Notepad to really do it without being a crack.

Unless then I might add a game like the X series, but their mods take a lot of time, scripting knowledge and special programs, so no. Further is their modding part not explained by the company itself. Not a good example.




ASHBERY76 -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/24/2012 8:42:16 PM)

Armada2526,Galciv2,SpaceEmpires5,Starruler are the most recent 4x games that are easily modded with a notepad.You are not looking very hard.




Nedrear -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/24/2012 10:40:55 PM)

And which parts? I am sure not all parts of them since a game always needs an engine which can't be modified.




Shark7 -> RE: I dont understand why so much of the game is denied to modding (10/25/2012 2:30:05 AM)

Good luck with finding an open source engine, most of those are propriety and covered under copyright law.




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