New World War One scenario (Full Version)

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Odenathus -> New World War One scenario (10/17/2012 1:48:32 AM)

Just submitted for consideration in the Members Site:

World War One in a single evening's play: army level; ranging over Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, monthly turns, PO for both sides. Includes navies, fledgling air forces, gas, the Russian and Bolshevik Revolutions, tanks, special Offensives, neutrals, Stormtroopers, the Entente naval blockade (and the Central Powers' chance to break it), weather effects and the Arab Revolt. Extensively playtested - thanks Jason - so bug-free.



governato -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/23/2012 3:41:38 AM)

This looks pretty fun! I like the army level approach.



SMK-at-work -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/23/2012 8:15:44 AM)

Yes IMO this is a great scale for WW1 & this might tide me over until a GOA update which might be in the cards :)

A couple of possible bugs:

- I had a French Army retreat from Antwerp north into the Netherlands early on, when it could have retreated south to France. The Germans then invaded the Netherlands, declaring war the next turn - not sure which even triggered which.

- when the option to land at Saloniki arrived I didn't take it, but the Turks moved into Greece up to the Greek army, and a CP unit appeared in Athens - ah - it's the royalists - I see - I should have read the whole briefing :)

- Italian 5th army appears in Albania - Tirana

- where did the force at Gallipoli go?

-St Chamond tanks start arriving T1! :) But some British tanks (Whippet, Mk V Male & Female) don't have a 1st turn of arrival.

-mortars start arriving T1, so here is a massive stockpile of them built up

-air units seem to automatically reset back to Air Superiority at the end of each turn

I found the time scale a little confusing - it seems a bit short - at one point I thought I was in 1915 but the Austrian Emperor dies or somesuch....I wasn't playing close enough attention..

all in all a lot of fun - didn't quite manage to finish WW1 in one night - but had a blast - excellent stuff - thanks




golden delicious -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/24/2012 12:10:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

- where did the force at Gallipoli go?


I think this is deliberate as there's an event that mentions it. But it doesn't seem to make much sense; if the campaign had been more successful it certainly would have been continued.

Anyway, a fun scenario, though I'm not sure the scaling is correct (should really be seeing big density penalties in the West). This makes attacking too easy and defending too hard: I'm playing against myself and France hung on by the skin of her teeth (at one point, German troops were southwest of Paris) and now Russia is falling apart- this being early 1916.

One quick suggestion: the French army should really be in two formations. As it is, it's too prone to reorganisation. A random reorg in the first few turns (I got two) makes it seriously difficult to achieve the "Miracle on the Marne".



SMK-at-work -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/24/2012 10:21:18 AM)

In my game as far as I got vs CP Elmer - The Schlieffen plan was easy to stop, but I go careless in 1915 and Son of Schlieffen came along the Coast & captured Le Havre - but then got cut off and an army retreated many hexes finally being cornered south of Paris!!

I think the CP attacked the Dutch because I could not disband a routed French Corps that retreated there.

In Russia it was quite a lot of fun - Warsaw was captured but then retaken in 1915 and the garrison held out for the rest of the war (so far - mid 1917) completely cut off - perhaps there is too much supply from single cities??

The CP attacked along the coast to Riga and that thin 1-hex line kept getting cut off by Russian counter-attacks and relieved, until finally enough Russians were there to stop it being relieved and Konigsberg and 3 armies were surrounded and destroyed.

In Macedonia/Serbia the Serbs lasted well into 1916 only losing Belgrade, and when the Armee de l'Orient arrived the allies (including Greeks - see below) quickly cleaned up, capturing Sofia and Istanbul.

In hte Mid-East the British forces in Egypt including the 2nd army manoeuvred to capture the Levant - more numerous CP units often surrounded them and cut their supply, but were never any match in open battle. When hte Cavalry Corps arrived the TE already occupied Damascus, Mosul and Baghdad, and shortly captured Ankara, Smyrna Trebizon.

A few things to note - IMO if the Allies "invade" Greece then the Greek army should probably just disappear - forget about trying to model the internal politics - by the end of the war there were, IIRC about 6 Greek divisions in the war attached to other allied Corps - as many as there were Serb Divisions, but in the chaos half the Greek army surrendered to the Germans because they had no orders to fight anyone!!

IMO the Greeks that do fight are probably better simulated by a corps or 2 that arrive as reinforcements at some stage - perhaps they appear "empty" at invasion and get "rebuilt" by Greek replacements or something like that?

Also the French Nth African and "Rif" forces are a waste of counters, as is the whole Spanish military - just have the Portuguese Corps appear in Brest as the Americans do.

There is also 1 British Brigade in Egypt - it is really useful....but a surely bit of an anachronism in a Army/Corps level game?? IMO it should just be subsumed into the fortification/garrisons or the Egyptian army, and those Arab revolts be ignored too.

Countries should surrender - especially Turkey if they lose Istanbul and Bulgaria if they lose Sofia. The Romanians should surrender only if/when Russia is defeated, and Serbs and Belgians only if France is defeated - at which point of course the war is over anyway!! But not all countries had the "intestinal fortitude" of the Serbs to keep fighting when completely over-run



Odenathus -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/24/2012 10:59:49 PM)

Thanks for the suggestions, in no particular order:

definitely better against a human opponent - I've done my best with the PO, but it sometimes does bizarre things that aren't programmed and, with so few units, one mad such mad move can uncover a flank, or key city, or whatever

Italian 5th, or at least a substantial Italian force, did land in Albania

the Gallipoli army was withdrawn and eventually formed a sizeable part of the Salonika army: do note that if the Entente can break out of Gallipoli and take Constantinople it won't be withdrawn

tank units are so small that their replacement start dates probably don't matter, but fair comment

incredibly unlucky to get two French reorgs in a row, never seen it in numerous playtests but I can see it would be very annoying, although the British operating between the Verdun and Paris fortified zones might at least hold Paris (and even reorganising units can hold a line)

if there's no Greek army the CP will cheerily - programmed or not - just walk through the country and meet up with the Royalists. I haven't got any more exclusion zones to prevent it, so what we've got is a decent compromise if playing the PO

must confess that the North African rebellions and colonial forces are largely chrome, although the Senussis did cause the British a significant distraction in Egypt

The scenario is intended as a short, fun one: clearly it can't do justice to the complexities of WWI, but I think it works on its own terms. Must stress again that it's FAR better and more balanced against a human opponent

Thanks again for the thoughts



golden delicious -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/25/2012 8:13:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Odenathus

the Gallipoli army was withdrawn and eventually formed a sizeable part of the Salonika army: do note that if the Entente can break out of Gallipoli and take Constantinople it won't be withdrawn


It shouldn't be necessary to take Constantinople. Just getting out of the starting hex should be enough as this would make this a more serious lodgement.

quote:

incredibly unlucky to get two French reorgs in a row, never seen it in numerous playtests but I can see it would be very annoying, although the British operating between the Verdun and Paris fortified zones might at least hold Paris (and even reorganising units can hold a line)


The problem I had was that the Germans had just advanced a hex then RBC'd the French air force to advance another. This would have been a prime opportunity for counterattack.

quote:

must confess that the North African rebellions and colonial forces are largely chrome,


I don't like this word. Chrome makes something look nicer without changing the way it's used or behaves. Meaningless ant units clutter up a scenario and make it slower to play.

I'll update when I've finished the rest of the war.



golden delicious -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/25/2012 11:20:30 PM)

Hmm...

Germans approached Petrograd in March 1916 and this seems to have precipitated both revolutions happening at once. This is well timed as the British (via Italy) are at the gates of Munich.

The Central Powers are able to swing around and deliver a crushing counterattack to the Allies, as several Allied armies surrender on the Swiss frontier after having been cut off. This gives the Germans overwhelming numerical superiority and Paris falls in January 1917.

Elsewhere, the Turks have lost the Levant but hold Mesopotamia, and the whole theatre is a stalemate (since the entire Turkish army is concentrated here). Serbia has the undivided attention of both Austria and Bulgaria and is reduced to a small enclave around Nis.

I probably overstretched as the Western Allies and shouldn't have been beaten so quickly but I think it's too easy for the Germans to beat Russia. If this is achieved in 1916 there's no way the Allies can win. In fact it's worth the Germans sacrificing a little ground to beat Russia early as it's not tenable for the Allies once the eastern armies become available.



Odenathus -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/27/2012 12:43:42 AM)

I think that, against a human player, giving ground in the West as the Central Powers player will be very dangerous. If the Entente gets over the Rhine and establishes a good lodgement in Germany they'll be the very deveil to shift, and the extra US forces in 1917 =>, coupled with the severe C.P. supply falls might lead to Germany itself being overrun. Historically, part of the reason that the Entente persisted with its fruitless attacks in the west was to prevent the Germans moving units to the east and finishing off the Russians more quickly than they did.



SMK-at-work -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/27/2012 6:34:34 AM)

The air units reset to "Air Superiority" after every combat phase - which is annoying. I also wonder if some of the minor powers truly deserve them - Greece, Romania, Turkey???

Here's a couple of picture of how the time scale seems a bit strange - as if the text is counting in month but the game is counting in weeks??


[image]local://upfiles/994/733E2D5EEEE9499FB1AF28E4945C62FC.jpg[/image]



SMK-at-work -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/27/2012 6:35:32 AM)

a 2nd pic of strange dates:



[image]local://upfiles/994/1E44A5D7F82C4654A37E0B8E6433ACAC.jpg[/image]



golden delicious -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/27/2012 11:34:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Here's a couple of picture of how the time scale seems a bit strange - as if the text is counting in month but the game is counting in weeks??


Ready the briefing.



golden delicious -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/27/2012 11:37:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Odenathus

I think that, against a human player, giving ground in the West as the Central Powers player will be very dangerous. If the Entente gets over the Rhine and establishes a good lodgement in Germany they'll be the very deveil to shift, and the extra US forces in 1917 =>, coupled with the severe C.P. supply falls might lead to Germany itself being overrun. Historically, part of the reason that the Entente persisted with its fruitless attacks in the west was to prevent the Germans moving units to the east and finishing off the Russians more quickly than they did.


Well, the other side of it is that the Austrians can just contain Serbia and Italy without a significant commitment of forces, so they too can send more troops to Russia. Russia never really gets enough pieces to be able to hold the entire front in strength; if forced to break units down the large German armies are generally able to get easy RBCs. As it was Austria wasn't able to make a major effort against Russia because their army had immolated itself trying to overrun Serbia quickly.

I maintain that knocking Russia out in 1916, especially in the first part of the year, is a game over for the Entente. Turkey should be able to dominate the Middle East while Serbia and France can just be overwhelmed- even if they have advanced. In fact digging in is so slow that once they advance they are exceptionally vulnerable to counterattack.

Perhaps that's a suggestion to rebalance the scenario. One of the big issues in the First World War was the ease with which ordinary infantry could develop very strong positions, yet here it takes 3 months to reach "fortified" status. Even stacking the engineer unit with an army doesn't allow them to reach "entrenched" status in one turn. A higher engineering rating for the ordinary units would make a big difference. You might want to modify some equipment to achieve this. While you're at it, split out the different rifle squads to separate the manpower pools.



SMK-at-work -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/27/2012 11:00:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Here's a couple of picture of how the time scale seems a bit strange - as if the text is counting in month but the game is counting in weeks??


Ready the briefing.

Can you be a bit more specific? There's a lot in the briefing, and tbh trying to read it sensibly in the game is very difficult



Odenathus -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/28/2012 12:39:49 AM)

SMK - you've got to at least skim through the briefing at the start even if you can't commit it all to memory:

The Central Powers vs the Triple Entente, August 1914 - November 1918, one month turns (IGNORE THE AUTOMATIC CALENDAR, game dates are shown as a News String for each turn.)

And, GD, there is a limited split of rifle squads: the western Entente forces use Rifle Squads, the Russians and Rumanians LRS, while the Germans and Austro-Hungarians use RS and the Turks LRSs



golden delicious -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/28/2012 10:03:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Odenathus

And, GD, there is a limited split of rifle squads: the western Entente forces use Rifle Squads, the Russians and Rumanians LRS, while the Germans and Austro-Hungarians use RS and the Turks LRSs


I did notice that. Thing is, the manpower crises for the French, British and American armies ought to be distinct. This is the sort of thing which a large scale scenario should focus on, and TOAW provides the tools to do it.



SMK-at-work -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/29/2012 5:43:09 AM)

I did skim through the briefing - honest - but it is a long briefing, and TOAW's tool for reading it is carp! :(



golden delicious -> RE: New World War One scenario (10/29/2012 9:21:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I did skim through the briefing - honest - but it is a long briefing, and TOAW's tool for reading it is carp! :(


Whenever I get a new scenario, I go to the editor first. If you want, there you can copy and paste the briefing into another format.

Though personally I think the idea of using oily fish to read a briefing is inspired [:'(]



SMK-at-work -> RE: New World War One scenario (11/3/2012 10:44:45 AM)

Yeah but oily fish doesn't upset anyone who is of a mind to get upset [sm=fighting0056.gif]

So what's this editor thing??



Oberst_Klink -> RE: New World War One scenario (11/3/2012 2:37:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Yeah but oily fish doesn't upset anyone who is of a mind to get upset [sm=fighting0056.gif]

So what's this editor thing??

I recommend Andy's Equipment Editor as well as the Scenario Viewer.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.edmiston/toawviewer.htm
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.edmiston/toaweqpedit.htm

Klink, Oberst



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