quote:

From the RAW.

19.2 Entering the war
A minor country enters the war when:
A major power declares war on it (it joins the other side); or
It aligns with a major power (see 9.8 Aligning minors).

If a minor country aligns with a major power, it is controlled by that major power.

If an Axis major power declares war on a minor country on the American map, it may only align with the USA.

When Germany makes her compulsory declaration of war on Poland (see 9.3 Compulsory declarations), it may only align with the Commonwealth.

In every other case, when one or more major powers declare war on a minor country, choose an active major power on the other side to align with it.

If there is more than one eligible major power, offer the minor to the major power whose capital city is closest to the minor’s capital (any home country in the case of the Commonwealth). If it declines, offer it to the next closest, and so on.

If every eligible major power declines, the minor (and all its controlled minors and territories) is immediately conquered by the attacking major power (see 13.7.1 Conquest).

quote:

A unit may not enter or attack a hex (or units therein) controlled by a major power on the other side that it isn’t at war with. However it can attack a hex controlled by an enemy major power or minor country even if the hex contains units it is not at war with.

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A primary supply source for a unit is:
• any friendly city in the unit’s unconquered home country; or
• for a Commonwealth unit, any friendly city in another unconquered Commonwealth home country; or
• any friendly city in an unconquered home country of a major power the unit co-operates with (see 18.1).

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13.7.1 Conquest
Minor countries never conquer anything. The home country or territory is instead conquered by the minor’s controlling major power (unless it is not at war, see 2.5 Control).

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19.4 Minor country units
Restrictions on use
Minor country units can move and fight outside their home country. However, you can only move a minor country land or aircraft unit outside the home country controlled by the minor, if half or more of its on map land and aircraft units are currently inside its home country (exception: Rumania becomes a full Axis ally ~ see 19.6.2).

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units cannot enter a country controlled by another power on
their side without permission of the owner

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Units controlled by a neutral major power don’t co-operate
with units from, or controlled by, another major power.

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However, hexes taken from an enemy major power (or
its controlled minors) are controlled by the major power taking
them regardless of whether those hexes are taken by units of the
major power or its controlled minors, unless the major powers are
not at war with each other (in which case the hexes are controlled
by the minor country taking them)

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You can move a land unit controlled by an active major power into
any hex controlled by:
• that major power and its aligned minors; or
• another active major power on the same side (or its controlled
minor countries); or
• a major power or minor country it is at war with.

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You can move a land unit controlled by an active major power into
any hex controlled by:
that major power and its aligned minors; or
• another active major power on the same side (or its controlled
minor countries); or
• a major power or minor country it is at war with.

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You can’t trace any supply path:
• into an enemy ZOC (unless the hex contains a friendly land
unit); or
• into a hex controlled by another major power unless it agrees;
or
• into a hex controlled by a neutral country (exception: Vichy
territory ~ see 17.4 and Sweden ~ see 19.7); or
• across an alpine hexside; or
• across a lake hexside (except when frozen); or
• across an all sea hexside that isn’t a straits hexside (except as
an overseas supply path); or
• for any Soviet unit, into a hex controlled by any other Allied
major power (and vice versa) unless the USSR is at war with
Germany

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How does Finland ever get aligned with Russia? Is this a Days of Decision game? Or did the Axis declare war on it? If so, why would they?

How do Russian units get to Venezuela? They don't have any TRS that can make it and they don't cooperate with anyone that does.

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0) US units can freely enter Columbia and draw supply through it; even though they cooperate (18.1.3) and the USA contains primary sources for Columbia (2.4.2, primary sources), these cannot be reached because the USA are neutral (2.4.2 bullet 3) and don't let any supply path enter its territory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: yvesp

Hello,

I was wondering about that situation:
Japan is at war with France and declares war on Columbia.
The USA is neutral and aligns Columbia.
Netherlands is aligned with France.

0) US units can freely enter Columbia and draw supply through it; even though they cooperate (18.1.3) and the USA contains primary sources for Columbia (2.4.2, primary sources), these cannot be reached because the USA are neutral (2.4.2 bullet 3) and don't let any supply path enter its territory.
1) Even if it gets USA's approval (11.11.5), France cannot move units inside Columbia (USA not active 11.11.5)
2) However, French can recapture Japanese captured hexes in Columbia. This doesn't require foreign troop commitment because French is major and Columbia minor (18.2); however, sending Netherland do the job would require foreign troop commitment (because the hex still technically is Columbian home country and Netherland is minor.) In both cases this requires USA approval (technically, French and Netherland units are still entering a country controlled by the USA).
3) French and Netherland units inside Columbia (on recaptured territory) can draw supply through Columbian hexes; this doesn't require USA's approval (2.4.2 2 does't apply because the hexes are not USA's)
3) Recaptured hexes are now under French control (2.5); the USA cannot draw supply through them unless the French agree (2.4.2 bullet 2).
4) USA or Columbian units cannot move into an empty hex previously captured by the Japanese or recaptured by the French(11.11.4).
5) Columbian units manage a breakthrough into Venezuela which was conquered by the Japanese and capture all hexes that form Venezuela. Captured hexes are Columbian (not USA because it is neutral; 2.5)
6) Venezuela cannot be liberated (because Columbia is a minor; 13.7.5); even when the USA become active, it still won't be possible to liberate Venezuela.

quote:


7) Venezuela is not "conquered" by Columbia (because (a) Columbia is a minor and (b) Venezuela was anyway already conquered ; it could only be liberated)

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8) Caracas is not a secondary supply source for anybody because it is controlled by Columbia, a minor (2.4.2). Even when the USA enter the war, Caracas will not be a secondary supply source for the USA unless it is captured again then retaken by the USA or USA allied units.

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8) Netherland or French units cannot enter Columbian controlled hexes in Venezuela (still because USA is not active); however they can recapture Japanese controlled hexes there without requiring any approval.
9) Netherland or French units can draw supply through Columbian controlled hexes in Venezuela as in (3). This does not require approval (because the hexes are not controlled by a major power 2.4.2 bullet 2).

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10) Now Russia declares war to Japan (but not Germany); Finland is aligned with Russia; Russia and Finland can send troops to Columbia or Venezuela provided the USA accepts, but only to recapture Japanese controlled hexes or enter French recaptured hexes; the latter doesn't require French approval.

quote:


11) Finland must meet the foreign troops requirements but not Russia if in Columbia even though they can occiped only French controlled hexes (or hexes they might themselves later capture).
12) Russian and Finland units can freely draw supply through Columbian controlled hexes.
13) Russian units cannot even ask for access into French controlled hexes for supply purposes (2.4.2 bullet 7) but can freely use french minors (such as an aligned Belgium) to pass supply without requiring approval.
14) Finland units can freely use the territory of any French minor to pass supply on, but requires the French approval for drawing through French controlled territory.
15) Finland's HQ is still in Columbia and the only ever possible supply chain must pass through France proper. Finland units adjacent to that HQ are in supply. A Russian unit is not (because the supply path has to pass through forbidden territory, i.e. France).

quote:


16) Russian units are free to enter Venezuelan hexes under French control (11.11.5: Venezuela is not controlled by a friendly power, so it is not necessary to gain approval); they can draw supply through adjacent hexes if they are not French (because the supply chain flows from the unit toward the source ; even if the hex it is in doesn't let supply flow, the first hex really checked is adjacent). However, if all surrounding hexes are French, the unit will necessarily be out of supply, even if adjacent to a Russian HQ itself in supply.

a) Italy is neutral. Germany cannot draw supply through Italian hexes (because 2.4.2 bullet 3 prevents it.)
b) Italy is neutral. Germany cannot draw supply through Albania (a minor aligned to Italy) because it is neutral too.
c) Italy is at war with Russia, Commonwealth and France are at war with Germany. (a) and (b) above now are wrong (provided Italy agrees in the case of (a) only)

Is all of this a correct interpretation of the rules ?

How is "agreement" handled by the Computer Game (for supply, right to enter units...) ?

Yves

quote:

a) Italy is neutral. Germany cannot draw supply through Italian hexes (because 2.4.2 bullet 3 prevents it.)
b) Italy is neutral. Germany cannot draw supply through Albania (a minor aligned to Italy) because it is neutral too.
c) Italy is at war with Russia, Commonwealth and France are at war with Germany. (a) and (b) above now are wrong (provided Italy agrees in the case of (a) only)

Is all of this a correct interpretation of the rules ?

How is "agreement" handled by the Computer Game (for supply, right to enter units...) ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: yvesp

quote:

How does Finland ever get aligned with Russia? Is this a Days of Decision game? Or did the Axis declare war on it? If so, why would they?

How do Russian units get to Venezuela? They don't have any TRS that can make it and they don't cooperate with anyone that does.

The situation is not the issue.
Whatever you may believe, it is a possible situation, however unlikely (no more than one game in a thousand; maybe less.)
I'm thinking "out of the box" ; that's they only way to think about all possible situations which a game may at some time have to handle.

Not doing so is the best recipe for bugs.

1) Yes, the axis can declare war on Finland.
2) Not cooperating is not the issue; using minor territories is always an option. Moving a HQ will fullfill any required foreign commitment rules if the unis has to stop in a major (England, France); so a TRS can hop a HQ in a few impulses or turns (likely 2 are enough)

Yves

quote:

Yes a few odd situations are good for playtesting and identifying bugs. No, a situation like you have come up with is not useful.

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BTW, in your examples, it may be important to know that Harry has ruled that once a major or minor country is conquered, Foreign Troop Commitment no longer applies to entering it. It is no longer a home country in that event.

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No recapturing needed. US receive control to make it a secondary supply source once US enters war with Japan.

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I am confused. Why must supply chain pass through France proper?

quote:

From the RAW
2.5 Control
Changing control
Control of a hex changes when:
An enemy land unit (except for 13.1 Partisans Option 46, and supply units ~ see 22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6)) enters it (the major power entering with the most factors if more than one); or
An island, territory, minor country or major power is conquered (see 13.7.1 Conquest); or
France is declared Vichy (see 17. Vichy France); or
It is a communist Chinese-controlled city entered by a nationalist Chinese land unit or vice versa; or during the liberation step you return control to the original owner (see 13.7.5, reversion).

Note that even though major powers may control minor countries (see 9.8 Aligning minors & 13.7.1 Conquest), it is the minors themselves that control hexes in that minor. However, hexes taken from an enemy major power (or its controlled minors) are controlled by the major power taking them regardless of whether those hexes are taken by units of the major power or its controlled minors, unless the major powers are not at war with each other (in which case the hexes are controlled by the minor country taking them). If a minor country controls enemy major power (or its controlled minors) hexes and the minor’s controlling major power comes to war with that major power, then those hexes immediately become controlled by the minor’s controlling major power.

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From the RAW
9. Declaring war
In this step, your major powers can declare war on major powers from the other side or on unaligned minor countries. There are restrictions on some major powers declaring war (see 9.2 China, 13.3 9.5 US entry, 9.5 Neutrality Pacts, and 19.6 Soviet border rectification).

Interacting with countries you are not at war with
If you’re not at war with a particular major power or minor country, your interaction with it is limited.

You can’t attack its units (exception: see 9.9 Multiple States of War).

You can’t bomb factories or resources it controls.

You can’t enter a hex controlled by:
A neutral minor country;
A neutral major power on your side; or
A major power or minor country you’re not yet at war with on the other side.

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From the RAW
11.11.4 Neutral major powers
You can only move a land unit of a neutral major power into:
A hex it controls; or
A hex controlled by one of its aligned minor countries; or
A hex in a minor country it is at war with.

The only exception is the US (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry options 7 Occupy Greenland & Iceland & 44 US occupies Northern Ireland).

11.11.5 Active major powers
You can move a land unit controlled by an active major power into any hex controlled by:
That major power and its aligned minors; or
Another active major power on the same side (or its controlled Minor countries); or
A major power or minor country it is at war with.

There are some exceptions:
Units can’t enter the home country of a non co-operating major power on the same side unless they satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules (see 18.2 Not co-operating); and
Minor country units can’t enter a hex controlled by another minor country aligned with their side unless they satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules.

Units cannot enter a country controlled by another power on their side without permission of the owner.

quote:

From the RAW
13.7.5 Liberation
Conquered minor countries, major powers and Commonwealth home countries (and France after a Vichy government is installed) may not be conquered. Instead, the major power controlling its capital can liberate it during the peace step if that major power is from the other side to the major power that conquered it. You can’t be liberated in the same turn you were conquered (only possible in Italy’s case).

You can choose not to liberate a country that could be liberated. If you do that, the country suffers the effects of partisans as if it were marked in red on the Partisan table, until it is liberated (see 13.1 Partisans Option 46). When France is liberated, Free France ceases to exist and all Free French units, and Territories become French. France is controlled by the liberating major power and is at war with all countries Free France was at war with. The France entry on the partisan table reverts to France (from occupied France).

When China is liberated, the liberator may choose to revert each Chinese hex to the Communist or the Nationalist Chinese (some to one and some to the other).

quote:

From the RAW
18. Co-operation
Units must be able to co-operate to do certain things together. These rules will tell you who can co-operate, what they can’t do together even though they can co-operate, and what they can’t do together if they don’t co-operate.

18.1 Who can co-operate
1. Units from the same major power co-operate with each other (even if they are from different countries - e.g. Australian and Indian units).
2. Units from the same minor country co-operate with each other.
3. Units from a minor country co-operate with units from its controlling major power or minor country.
4. Units from a major power don’t co-operate with units from a minor country aligned with another major power.
5. Units from one minor country don’t co-operate with units from another minor country, even if both are aligned with the same major power.
6. US and Commonwealth units co-operate provided neither is neutral.
7. Commonwealth and Free French units co-operate.
8. US and (non-Vichy) French units co-operate once the USA is at war with Germany and Italy.
9. German and Italian units co-operate if neither is neutral.
10. Vichy French units do not co-operate with any major power.
11. Units controlled by a neutral major power don’t co-operate with units from, or controlled by, another major power.[
12. Units from a liberated major power co-operate with units from the major power that liberated it.
13. Chinese nationalist and communist units don’t co-operate.
14. Partisans co-operate with units from their own country only. Chinese partisans only co-operate with Chinese communist units.
No other units co-operate. As an exception to the above, units of a liberated major power never co-operate with units of a major power that refused to return territory on liberation (see 13.7.5). AfA options 10: The Italian AOI territorial can co-operate with all other Italian territorials (see 22.4.5).

18.2 Not co-operating
Units that don’t co-operate cannot:
1. Stack in the same hex, at any time that stacking limits apply; or
2. Transport each other’s units; or
3. Draw supply from a source controlled by the other; or
4. Reorganize each other; or
5. Be committed to any combat or mission that the other unit is, or will be, involved in this step. This doesn’t apply to naval air or naval air interception missions.

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is destroyed unless:
It started the step there; or
It started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop commitment limit.

A minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of an aligned minor country on the same side is destroyed unless:
It started the step there; or
It started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop commitment limit.

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ORIGINAL: Orm

No. USA can liberate Venezuela after it goes to war with Japan because the hexes are then transferred to US control.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

8) Netherland or French units cannot enter Columbian controlled hexes in Venezuela (still because USA is not active); however they can recapture Japanese controlled hexes there without requiring any approval.
9) Netherland or French units can draw supply through Columbian controlled hexes in Venezuela as in (3). This does not require approval (because the hexes are not controlled by a major power 2.4.2 bullet 2).

True. But once US is at war with Japan permission will be needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

10) Now Russia declares war to Japan (but not Germany); Finland is aligned with Russia; Russia and Finland can send troops to Columbia or Venezuela provided the USA accepts, but only to recapture Japanese controlled hexes or enter French recaptured hexes; the latter doesn't require French approval.

Yes, US approval is enough to enter including the French controlled hexes

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If Columbia can take Venezuela the USA (Columbia's controlling major power) can choose to liberate Venezuela or not (see the RAW for Liberation Effects).

quote:

Instead, the major power controlling its
capital can liberate it during the peace step if that major power is
from the other side to the major power that conquered it.

quote:

Original: yvesp
Instead, the major power controlling its capital can liberate it during the peace step if that major power is from the other side to the major power that conquered it.

And in that case, the capital is controlled by Columbia, a Minor country. Hence, it precludes liberation. I believe this part of the rule requires clarification when the country that controls the capital is a minor.

quote:

From the RAW
2.5 Control

Changing control
Control of a hex changes when:
An enemy land unit (except for 13.1 Partisans Option 46, and supply units ~ see 22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6)) enters it (the major power entering with the most factors if more than one); or
An island, territory, minor country or major power is conquered (see 13.7.1 Conquest); or
France is declared Vichy (see 17. Vichy France); or
It is a communist Chinese-controlled city entered by a nationalist Chinese land unit or vice versa; or during the liberation step you return control to the original owner (see 13.7.5 reversion).


Note that even though major powers may control minor countries (see 9.8 Aligning minors & 13.7.1 Conquest), it is the minors themselves that control hexes in that minor.

However, hexes taken from an enemy major power (or its controlled minors) are controlled by the major power taking them regardless of whether those hexes are taken by units of the major power or its controlled minors, unless the major powers are not at war with each other (in which case the hexes are controlled by the minor country taking them).

If a minor country controls enemy major power (or its controlled minors) hexes and the minor’s controlling major power comes to war with that major power, then those hexes immediately become controlled by the minor’s controlling major power.

quote:

From the RAW
13.7.1 Conquest
You can only conquer a home country or territory if you are at war with the major power or minor country that controls it. All conquest in a turn occurs simultaneously.
Minor countries never conquer anything. The home country or territory is instead conquered by the minor’s controlling major power (unless it is not at war, see 2.5 Control). You cannot conquer a conquered minor country or territory. You may only liberate or revert it (see 13.7.5 Liberation).

13.7.5 Liberation
Conquered minor countries, major powers, and Commonwealth home countries (and France after a Vichy government is installed) may not be conquered. Instead, the major power controlling its capital can liberate it during the peace step if that major power is from the other side to the major power that conquered it. You can’t be liberated in the same turn you were conquered (only possible in Italy’s case).

You can choose not to liberate a country that could be liberated. If you do that, the country suffers the effects of partisans as if it were marked in red on the Partisan table, until it is liberated (see 13.1 Partisans Option 46). When France is liberated, Free France ceases to exist and all Free French units, and Territories become French. France is controlled by the liberating major power and is at war with all countries Free France was at war with. The France entry on the partisan table reverts to France (from occupied France).

When China is liberated, the liberator may choose to revert each Chinese hex to the Communist or the Nationalist Chinese (some to one and some to the other).

Liberation effects
Return half of the liberated country’s units not currently in the game (by type, rounding fractions up) to its force pools (except France’s if Vichy was installed). Liberated minors’ units join the force pools of their liberating major power.

A liberated major power or minor country gets back control of all hexes it controlled at the start of the 1939 campaign game that are now controlled by the liberating major power. Other major powers on its side can give back such territory that they control.

If you liberate the original home country of a conquered major power or minor country, it again becomes the home country for its units, replacing any alternative home country.

A liberated major power can co-operate (see 18 Co-operation) with any major power that returns all eligible territory to it. If they could return territory but don’t, they can never co-operate with the liberated major power.

For the remainder of the game, the liberating major power controls the liberated major power for all purposes.

Liberated minor countries are aligned, and may co-operate, with the liberating major power.

Reversion
You can return a hex or minor country you control to the major power that controlled it in 1939 during any liberation step. You may revert Chinese hexes to either the Communists or Nationalists. You can also return control of a minor country hex to that minor country. You can only return hexes or minor countries to a major power or minor country that is on your side and is not currently completely conquered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

The peaceful people of Venezuela suffer under the heavy hand of Columbia until the USA goes to war.

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ORIGINAL: yvesp

quote:

If Columbia can take Venezuela the USA (Columbia's controlling major power) can choose to liberate Venezuela or not (see the RAW for Liberation Effects).

I would have thought so.
However,

quote:

Instead, the major power controlling its
capital can liberate it during the peace step if that major power is
from the other side to the major power that conquered it.

And in that case, the capital is controlled by Columbi, a Minor country.
Hence, it precludes liberation. I believe this part of the rule requires
clarification when the country that controls the capital is a minor.

Thanks!
Yves

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Minor countries can not conquer other countries. Therefore the capital of a conquered country is always controlled by a major power.

quote:

Original: yvesp
Woo.
I found something; Venezuela would have been aligned to the USA in the initial declaration of war by Japan. How would that interfere with the rules and the consequences I noted? I still believe the conclusions would stay valid.

USA going to war with Germany would not reverse the Venezuelan hexes to US control.

Even in the case of war with Japan, I believe that the rule

If a minor country controls enemy major power (or its controlled minors) hexes and the minor’s controlling major power comes to war with that major power, then those hexes immediately become controlled by the minor’s controlling major power. doesn't fire because said hexes don't qualify.

And the conclusion that Caracas cannot be a secondary source to the USA stays valid in my opinion.

Yves

quote:

From the RAW
2.4.2 Tracing supply
A secondary supply source for a unit is:
An HQ the unit co-operates with (see 18.1); or
The capital city of a minor country controlled by the unit’s major power; or
The capital city of a major power, or a minor country, conquered by the unit’s major power, or by a major power the unit co-operates with.

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Original: Steve
Minor countries cannot conquer other countries. Therefore the capital of a conquered country is always controlled by a major power.

quote:

From the RAW
Minor countries never conquer anything. The home country or territory is instead conquered by the minor’s controlling major power (unless it is not at war, see 2.5 control)."