better tutorial required for demo (Full Version)

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henri51 -> better tutorial required for demo (10/3/2012 9:04:45 PM)

This game looks great, but after going through the demo tutorial and reading the manual, I am still at a loss about what to do, despite my familiarity with strategy games and Roman History.There are just too many details to think of for players like me who have not played the previous AGEOD games. What is needed is a step-by-step tutorial taking the player through the first few moves of the scenario in the demo (4 generals)along with the reasons for doing so. The tutorial essentially only shows how to move units and attack the enemy, but there is much much more to this game. To be clear, I understand the complex interface very well, the problem is what to do with it.

This game has the potential to be a great game, and it has a very good manual, but the learning curve might be too steep for newbies, not to mention old grognards like me. There are some pretty good video tutorials on the web, but that is somewhat hit and miss, and watching a video explaining what I already know gets boring. What I need to know is what to do!There are also videos of gameplay, but the ones I have watched (Caesar vs Pompeius) essentially only show the interface and the moves (maybe I should watch it again now that I have read the manual).

For example, in the scenario with the demo (4 generals), as Vespasian, it is fairly obvious that the general in Judea should attack the revolt there, and since one of the other two generals is fixed, the other one should probably head for Northern Italy while being careful about attrition since it is Winter. The force in Egypt might travel by sea to help in Palestine. But after that, my mind boggles. Should I create more units, make replacements, negotiate with other factions, and so on?

Maybe I will continue this scenario with hit and miss then make an AAR about how I got creamed by the AI.[:'(]

Henri



wodin -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/3/2012 9:16:40 PM)

I had no idea about Roman History. Nor experienced with the game engine. I can understand where your coming from. What I found far more helpfull was reading the AAR's.



RedCharlie65 -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/3/2012 9:34:00 PM)

I agree with wodin. You really have to read the AAR to get a sense as to how things work. Here is a good one which is made up for newbies.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?632034-The-Hero-The-Traitor-and-The-Barbarian-an-AJE-PBEM-Beginner-AAR

If you look closely, they even have it categorized and indexed in the beginning so you can jump right to the explanaition your looking for on a particular subject matter. It is really well done.



henri51 -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/4/2012 1:05:29 PM)

Yes indeed this AAR is an excellent tutorial and has now been set up in the AAR forum here so that it is easily found.

Henri



Dale H -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/4/2012 2:36:58 PM)

Run, don't walk to the series of YouTube tutorials by Charlesonmission listed in the thread on the AGEOD/ AJE website. There are about 16 of them & they are excellent. I learned much even though I have played a lot in the past. He introduces also the new game concepts found in this title. Be aware also that the game is tool-tip driven. The manual does indeed come up a bit short & there is a lot missing but if you play intuitively & use the tool tips & go with your gut you should do fine. Don't give up on this game or the AGEOD series.



henri51 -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/4/2012 7:15:41 PM)

Yes the video series are also very good, and I recommend watching them BEFORE the AAR tutorial because you cannot speed up the videos but you can skip over parts of the AAR you already understand.The Spanish AAR is also very good and covers the demo scenario (4 emperors), but unfortunately I missed much of the more subtle parts due to lack of knowledge of the language.

The game somewhat supports the Strategy of the indirect approach, which is rare in wargames, and for me that is a big plus.

Henri



ezz -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/5/2012 12:47:31 AM)

I'm almost given up. What a lousy tutorial. I'll try the suggestions.



Peter Fisla -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/5/2012 2:38:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: henri51

This game looks great, but after going through the demo tutorial and reading the manual, I am still at a loss about what to do, despite my familiarity with strategy games and Roman History.There are just too many details to think of for players like me who have not played the previous AGEOD games. What is needed is a step-by-step tutorial taking the player through the first few moves of the scenario in the demo (4 generals)along with the reasons for doing so. The tutorial essentially only shows how to move units and attack the enemy, but there is much much more to this game. To be clear, I understand the complex interface very well, the problem is what to do with it.

This game has the potential to be a great game, and it has a very good manual, but the learning curve might be too steep for newbies, not to mention old grognards like me. There are some pretty good video tutorials on the web, but that is somewhat hit and miss, and watching a video explaining what I already know gets boring. What I need to know is what to do!There are also videos of gameplay, but the ones I have watched (Caesar vs Pompeius) essentially only show the interface and the moves (maybe I should watch it again now that I have read the manual).

For example, in the scenario with the demo (4 generals), as Vespasian, it is fairly obvious that the general in Judea should attack the revolt there, and since one of the other two generals is fixed, the other one should probably head for Northern Italy while being careful about attrition since it is Winter. The force in Egypt might travel by sea to help in Palestine. But after that, my mind boggles. Should I create more units, make replacements, negotiate with other factions, and so on?

Maybe I will continue this scenario with hit and miss then make an AAR about how I got creamed by the AI.[:'(]

Henri


I 100% agree with Henri, the tutorial is really useless and a step by step tutorial that actually walks you through the tutorial scenario is badly needed. As a true wargamer I can see the game has a lot of depth and seems serious about history but without proper tutorial it's going nowhere for me. For now I put the game on ice...

Peter



Treale -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/5/2012 2:45:03 PM)

I've went through the Tutorial several times, and I still don't have any idea of what I did, or what went on?? I've been gaming since the advent of computer games, so I know my way around! This is my first experience with AEGOD's games, and it may be my last....



wodin -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/5/2012 6:09:49 PM)

Just read the AAR's...some things are worth putting in the time and effort.

I also have no real knowledge of Rome nor with the game engine..I'd messed about with BOA and the Civil War game but never really got into it. This though has dragged me in..though I had to read a few AAR's to really get it...sort of.

Don't give up because of the tutorial..as said go read a couple of AAR's.



Treale -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/5/2012 9:22:37 PM)

I'll play around with the Demo some more. I really like the time period of this title! Hopefully something will click into place??



henri51 -> RE: better tutorial required for demo (10/5/2012 11:49:36 PM)

Just to make sure it is clear (since I started this thread), it is really essential for those like me who have not played previous AGEOD titles to read the tutorials mentioned: first the 23 video tutorials by Maisonsomethingorother....(check out the AGEOD forums for the links), and the AAR tutorial indicated here in the AAR forum. The one in Spanish on the AGEOD forum looks just as good, but.... it is in Spanish. This game has depth that I have not seen in other wargames, and now it is my impression that it is well worth the steep learning curve.I still think that sales could be increased by doing a step-by-step tutorial of early moves the 4 Emperors scenario, the first 12 moves of which comes with the demo.This would not hurt later play of the scenario because with only 12 moves, the strategy for the full scenario is not feasible for the demo.

In sum, don't give up on the game just because of the demo tutorial, unless you are a player who likes only fast simple games.And maybe you should buy it anyway just for your collection of the best wargames of all time.

It is all the more interesting that it many scenarios have more than two players (none of them allied), which is an added layer of complexity.Now I think I should go buy the game - unless I will go read more AARS, which are as much fun as playing the game.

Henri




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