RE: Manual Download (Full Version)

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warspite1 -> RE: Manual Download (10/8/2012 7:39:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cad908

Mo Reb,

Here is a link to the final edition rules with the examples included. The one on ADG's website for some reason does not include the graphics. It was done by a fan, and I would give credit if I knew his / her name.

http://manlig.org/wif/RaW-7mAug2004.pdf

This RAW forms the basis of the game.

Two other documents:

Rules as Coded (RAC) Some 98% of RAC is directly from RAW. It provides clarifications to the rules and the transition form a paper game to the computer one.
Players Manual (PM) Details sequence of play and all the forms used in MWIF, along with many other goodies are part of MWIF... The timing of their release is up to Matrix.


-Rob





quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Mo Reb I never played Advanced 3rd Reich (although did try 3rd Reich). In my opinion, 3rd Reich and WIF simply do not compare.

There are a number of reasons for WIF being simply the best game ever.

1. I believe it has the right mix of playability and complexity.
2. It is fun without being in any way a "beer and pretzels" game.
3. There are no sure-fire strategies - variable weather, variable turn-length, a degree of luck when picking reinforcements plus of course good old fashioned dice, all go together to ensure that no two games are alike.
4. For those expecting a 100% accurate OB and unit factors, then this is not the game for them. However, what WIF does is give each player an accurate feel for their country's armed forces; the benefits and the problems that go with them - e.g. Commonwealth a small, mobile army - the Commonwealth army must be used sparringly; decent aircraft with a large variety of types giving a good degree of flexibility; and a lot of ships - by no means the best quality (except HMS Warspite of course) and massively overstretched.
5. The ruleset gives the game a proper historical context, but within that framework a player is not strait-jacketed in terms of players being able to try loads of different strategies.
6. A really important element for me with any game is the "look" of the game. WIF looks fantastic (except for the Final Edition maps [:(]) but the superb MWIF map sorts that little problem out [:)]. The counters are exceptionally good - NATO symbols for the army, silhouettes for the ships, and full colour camoflagued aircraft. Playing with SIF and PIF is a must for me as these excellent counters really add to gaming experience .





Read:
Specifically Section 3 the first paragraph.
Specifically Section 3 the last paragraph first sentence.

Ignore:
Section 3 the rest of the last paragraph.


You know I cannot post specifics on the NDA.

You can post links to screen shots of maps and units and let people decide on the quality.

But you cannot give your opinion of them.

You are reviewing the game.


warspite1

This is bizarre.

I am giving a high level view on WIF - not MWIF. The counters I am describing are as per WIF.

If my passing a positive opinion on the MWIF maps, that Steve has agreed may be posted, is against my NDA then you got me "bang to rights".

Just curious, but why you are bringing this up now rather than the numerous times the map has been mentioned before (and commented upon by some of the Beta Testers - see below for just one example?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2967758

I cannot begin to understand your motives here [&:].




paulderynck -> RE: Manual Download (10/8/2012 8:04:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.


With great respect, it would appear from the stats that any competent Japanese commander of Yamato could dispatch Warspite without incurring any serious damage.

The Yamato was 3 kts faster and could fire shells 42 km while the Warspite's record hit with her 15 inchers was at a distance of less than 24 km. The Yamato would have an 18 km "safety zone" whithin which she could fire at the Warspite without danger of being hit herself.

The Warspite would only have a chance if she appeared out of a fog bank or morning mist and was within range of Yamato. Otherwise the Yamato just stays out of range with her superior speed and pummels Warspite with complete impunity.

Sorry.

pauld


Nothing wrong with mentioning an AAR or opinion on a ships actual abilities.

You have absolutely no idea how much your approval of what I wrote means to me.




warspite1 -> RE: Manual Download (10/8/2012 8:17:50 AM)

Well having been caught bang to rights for my shocking misdemeanour, I sit here alone, with only my thoughts for company, awaiting the knock on the door from the Matrix police.

I thought it fitting to play this little toon while I wait.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHosXPSfBMM

Goodbye cruel world.....




Cad908 -> RE: Manual Download (10/8/2012 8:26:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cad908

Mo Reb,

Here is a link to the final edition rules with the examples included. The one on ADG's website for some reason does not include the graphics. It was done by a fan, and I would give credit if I knew his / her name.

http://manlig.org/wif/RaW-7mAug2004.pdf

This RAW forms the basis of the game.

Two other documents:

Rules as Coded (RAC) Some 98% of RAC is directly from RAW. It provides clarifications to the rules and the transition form a paper game to the computer one.
Players Manual (PM) Details sequence of play and all the forms used in MWIF, along with many other goodies are part of MWIF... The timing of their release is up to Matrix.

-Rob



Read:
Specifically Section 3 the first paragraph.
Specifically Section 3 the last paragraph first sentence.

Ignore:
Section 3 the rest of the last paragraph.


You know I cannot post specifics on the NDA.

You can post links to screen shots of maps and units and let people decide on the quality.

But you cannot give your opinion of them.

You are reviewing the game.



Extraneous,

Strange, indeed.

I should point out a couple of items:

1. Steve took my rather limited answer and expanded upon it. RAC and the Players Manual have been cited by him on multiple occasions in his monthly status reports. Perhaps you should read them again, or maybe you should remind Steve about what he is supposed to disclose about the game he is programming.

2. The NDA I signed is with Matrix Games. If anyone at Matrix thinks I have violated my agreement, then they should remove me from the Beta test group.

Good day, and good bye.

-Rob




Empire101 -> RE: Manual Download (10/8/2012 3:48:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Goodbye cruel world.....



Ok old boy.....just walk away from the edge and put the gun down, its all been a terrible mistake....

We found the secret protocols of the NDA on the body of the Paradox secret agent in the lake.... Its all over...



[image]local://upfiles/29250/8C2539E39742492BA386BBEC4314E83F.jpg[/image]




Extraneous -> RE: Manual Download (10/8/2012 6:47:05 PM)

Steve has more leeway in what he can and what he allows to be posted on the open forums.

Without Steve or Matrix Games permission Beta Testers and anyone who signed the NDA are limited to what they can post.

You can post a link to any post in the open forums (maps, screenshots, and etc.) with out worrying about the NDA. As permission should have been received from Steve or Matrix Games.


As in any NDA anyone who signed that NDA is not allowed to write a review good or bad (which would be their opinion) until they are released from that NDA.

Are you inferring that the restrictions of the MWiF NDA have ended?



In other words we are both covered by the NDA so I post my links and I am careful to not post reviews/opinions.

Why don't you?


Let the people not covered by the NDA form their own opinions.


Steve, please notice I am still being nice in these posts.






warspite1 -> RE: Manual Download (10/8/2012 7:16:09 PM)

Deleted - I have lost the will to live with this..... [:(][&:] I agree with Cad908. If Matrix want me removed from the Beta team as a result of my faux pas, then fair enough.




warspite1 -> RE: Manual Download (10/8/2012 7:20:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Goodbye cruel world.....


Ok old boy.....just walk away from the edge and put the gun down, its all been a terrible mistake....

We found the secret protocols of the NDA on the body of the Paradox secret agent in the lake.... Its all over...

[image]local://upfiles/29250/8C2539E39742492BA386BBEC4314E83F.jpg[/image]
warspite1

Phew, that's a relief, I didn't want to end it all - it was just an excuse to post a quite brilliant toon! [:)]

BTW Empire, I think you should start a new thread; I'm dying to hear about the secret protocols. Sounds like a Pierce Brosnan movie [:)]




Orm -> RE: Manual Download (10/8/2012 9:36:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Deleted - I have lost the will to live with this..... [:(][&:] I agree with Cad908. If Matrix want me removed from the Beta team as a result of my faux pas, then fair enough.


I am as guilty of this faux pas and I will follow Cad908 and warspite1 if Matrix so decide.




Empire101 -> RE: Manual Download (10/9/2012 7:05:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Goodbye cruel world.....


Ok old boy.....just walk away from the edge and put the gun down, its all been a terrible mistake....

We found the secret protocols of the NDA on the body of the Paradox secret agent in the lake.... Its all over...

[image]local://upfiles/29250/8C2539E39742492BA386BBEC4314E83F.jpg[/image]
warspite1

Phew, that's a relief, I didn't want to end it all - it was just an excuse to post a quite brilliant toon! [:)]

BTW Empire, I think you should start a new thread; I'm dying to hear about the secret protocols. Sounds like a Pierce Brosnan movie [:)]


Good idea!!

I'd have to be Dick Barton ( of course[8|] ), Warspite could be Snowy and Orm could be Jock.

Lets see, the title......Dick Barton &...'The Curse of the Claw!!'......no....too predictable.....

I know....Dick Barton &.....The Strange Case of The Paradox Protocols!!!

Coming to a thread near you soon!!

[image]local://upfiles/29250/9898662DB6B34EDEA829C9737FF4A3B9.jpg[/image]




Extraneous -> RE: Manual Download (10/9/2012 2:50:15 PM)

Your slurs and innuendoes remain posted while my response (which was still polite) was deleted.




Empire101 -> RE: Manual Download (10/9/2012 3:48:09 PM)

Slurs and innuendoes??!!

Who is this aimed at??

Everyone has been more than polite.

If anyone needs to apologise, its you for getting the wrong end of the stick, and saying you are sorry to Warspite.

By the way, who appointed you to police this forum??

All of this nonsense should have been done by PM between Warspite, Steve & yourself ( if there ever was any basis for your accusations, which there are not )....a gentleman would not have blown all this up in full view of the community.




Orm -> RE: Manual Download (10/9/2012 5:22:55 PM)

I am sorry if I have caused offence. It has not been my intention.




Orm -> RE: Manual Download (10/9/2012 5:24:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Well I guess the only question remaining is WHEN? [:)]

I wonder if we get a chance to have this by Christmas? The missus says I'm too hard to buy for. I can make it real easy.

mo reb

It is ready when it is ready. Not a day later nor a day earlier than that. [;)]




paulderynck -> RE: Manual Download (10/9/2012 6:18:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101

Slurs and innuendoes??!!

Who is this aimed at??

Everyone has been more than polite.

If anyone needs to apologise, its you for getting the wrong end of the stick, and saying you are sorry to Warspite.

By the way, who appointed you to police this forum??

All of this nonsense should have been done by PM between Warspite, Steve & yourself ( if there ever was any basis for your accusations, which there are not )....a gentleman would not have blown all this up in full view of the community.

Bravo !




michaelbaldur -> RE: Manual Download (10/9/2012 6:27:50 PM)


as I see it there have been no violation of the NDA.

so take a breather and came down.

seems like there are to many idle beta testers. like me.




Missouri_Rebel -> RE: Manual Download (10/9/2012 10:16:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Well I guess the only question remaining is WHEN? [:)]

I wonder if we get a chance to have this by Christmas? The missus says I'm too hard to buy for. I can make it real easy.

mo reb

It is ready when it is ready. Not a day later nor a day earlier than that. [;)]



Yeah, but when is that? Speak up son.





michaelbaldur -> RE: Manual Download (10/9/2012 10:22:14 PM)


just playing a good game of hearts of iron ...

one of the first thing i did was force commonwealth to give up Warspite .. and even good it cheap .[:D]




Missouri_Rebel -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 12:51:15 AM)

Yeah, hearts of iron. I have 3 and all the expansions except for the latest. It seemed a little limited. TBH, I spent way more time with the first than any of the successors, warts and all.

But, this isn't the reason for this reply. It is a proposition for becoming a Beta Tester for WiF. [gasp]I want to learn WiF and am committed and what better way to see how easy the average Mo can decipher what you have compiled? I've tested other Matrix games, just not of this scope. I have the hardware and the willpower, I just need the chance. Heck, I even have a nifty avatar now thanks to Warspite.

So what say ye Steve (or is it Shannon)?

mo reb




michaelbaldur -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 1:37:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Yeah, hearts of iron. I have 3 and all the expansions except for the latest. It seemed a little limited. TBH, I spent way more time with the first than any of the successors, warts and all.

But, this isn't the reason for this reply. It is a proposition for becoming a Beta Tester for WiF. [gasp]I want to learn WiF and am committed and what better way to see how easy the average Mo can decipher what you have compiled? I've tested other Matrix games, just not of this scope. I have the hardware and the willpower, I just need the chance. Heck, I even have a nifty avatar now thanks to Warspite.

So what say ye Steve (or is it Shannon)?

mo reb


we just took in some tester some time ago. but you can apply next time we ask for more

and just a note on this. it was February 29, 2012.

but from my point of view. I really don't hope that we have to take on any more testers before the release




Missouri_Rebel -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 2:35:06 AM)

We had a vote Michael while you were away and it looks like you were overruled and I am in. Now be a nice lad and send me all available material.


My mother told me her biggest wish for me in life was for me to become a WiF beta tester. I guess I'll have to call her and tell her the bad news. It's gonna break her heart I hope you know.


Of course you were probably scared I'd mop you up in my very first ever WiF game. I might not.

mo reb





michaelbaldur -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 2:42:33 AM)

funny joke, but then again its not.





warspite1 -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 3:19:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

We had a vote Michael while you were away and it looks like you were overruled and I am in. Now be a nice lad and send me all available material.


My mother told me her biggest wish for me in life was for me to become a WiF beta tester. I guess I'll have to call her and tell her the bad news. It's gonna break her heart I hope you know.


Of course you were probably scared I'd mop you up in my very first ever WiF game. I might not.

mo reb


warspite1

Mo Reb, why not send a PM to Steve, see what he thinks. Might be worth a try.




Missouri_Rebel -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 3:27:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

We had a vote Michael while you were away and it looks like you were overruled and I am in. Now be a nice lad and send me all available material.


My mother told me her biggest wish for me in life was for me to become a WiF beta tester. I guess I'll have to call her and tell her the bad news. It's gonna break her heart I hope you know.


Of course you were probably scared I'd mop you up in my very first ever WiF game. I might not.

mo reb


warspite1

Mo Reb, why not send a PM to Steve, see what he thinks. Might be worth a try.




Ah, the man has his health to deal with and enough on his plate. I won't pester him.

But thanks warspite. I thought it a good idea.

mo reb




Extraneous -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 4:43:32 AM)

Oh my post came back (it happens sometimes)


quote:

warspite1

This is bizarre.

1) I am giving a high level view on WIF - not MWIF. The counters I am describing are as per WIF.

2) If my passing a positive opinion on the MWIF maps, that Steve has agreed may be posted, is against my NDA then you got me "bang to rights".
3) Just curious, but why you are bringing this up now rather than the numerous times the map has been mentioned before (and commented upon by some of the Beta Testers - see below for just one example?



1) "but the superb MWIF map sorts that little problem out . The counters are exceptionally good - NATO symbols for the army, silhouettes for the ships, and full colour camoflagued aircraft. Playing with SIF and PIF is a must for me as these excellent counters really add to gaming experience."

Where do you change from MWiF back to WiF? The way it is written I read it this is all MWiF.

Again, posting opinions/reviews is not allowed. I can't post mine you can't post yours.

You should have written it like this
"The WIF counters are exceptionally good - NATO symbols for the army, silhouettes for the ships, and full color camouflaged aircraft. Playing with SIF and PIF is a must for me as these excellent counters really add to gaming experience looks fantastic."


2) Again, posting opinions/reviews is not allowed. I can't post mine you can't post yours.

3) Check the MWiF Beta Testers Forums for permissions for maps and screenshots.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cad908

Mo Reb,

Here is a link to the final edition rules with the examples included. The one on ADG's website for some reason does not include the graphics. It was done by a fan, and I would give credit if I knew his / her name.

http://manlig.org/wif/RaW-7mAug2004.pdf

This RAW forms the basis of the game.

Two other documents:

1) Rules as Coded (RAC) Some 98% of RAC is directly from RAW. It provides clarifications to the rules and the transition form a paper game to the computer one.
Players Manual (PM) Details sequence of play and all the forms used in MWIF, along with many other goodies are part of MWIF... The timing of their release is up to Matrix.



-Rob



1) Did you get permission to post percentages? Again, posting opinions/reviews is not allowed. I can't post mine you can't post yours.


quote:

Slurs and innuendoes
warspite1
Goodbye cruel world
The Matrix police

Empire101
We found the secret protocols of the NDA on the body of the Paradox secret agent in the lake.... Its all over...
By the way, who appointed you to police this forum??

paulderynck
You have absolutely no idea how much your approval of what I wrote means to me.



Yes I do paulderynck .



quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101

1) Slurs and innuendoes??!!

Who is this aimed at??

Everyone has been more than polite.

2) If anyone needs to apologize, its you for getting the wrong end of the stick, and saying you are sorry to Warspite.

3) By the way, who appointed you to police this forum??

4) All of this nonsense should have been done by PM between Warspite, Steve & yourself ( if there ever was any basis for your accusations, which there are not )....a gentleman would not have blown all this up in full view of the community.

Empire101



1) See list above. If you missed it that was sarcasm from paulderynck .

2) Apologize to warspite1 for what?

3) I have been trying to help see you all don't get in trouble with your NDA while you all taking this as a personal affront for some reason.

4) I refuse to PM the entire Beta Test Team and Steve monitors these forums.

4) I am not a Noble, a member of the landed gentry, a man of independent means, or a valet.


I have been trying to help see you all don't get in trouble with your NDA while you all taking this as a personal affront for some reason.


michaelbaldur the voice of reason. I agree take a breather and calm down.



And for those that missed it...

I have been trying to help see you all don't get in trouble with your NDA while you all taking this as a personal affront for some reason.





Missouri_Rebel -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 5:07:44 AM)

Let cooler heads prevail.




warspite1 -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 7:24:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

We had a vote Michael while you were away and it looks like you were overruled and I am in. Now be a nice lad and send me all available material.

My mother told me her biggest wish for me in life was for me to become a WiF beta tester. I guess I'll have to call her and tell her the bad news. It's gonna break her heart I hope you know.

Of course you were probably scared I'd mop you up in my very first ever WiF game. I might not.

mo reb

warspite1

Mo Reb, why not send a PM to Steve, see what he thinks. Might be worth a try.



Ah, the man has his health to deal with and enough on his plate. I won't pester him.

But thanks warspite. I thought it a good idea.

mo reb
warspite1

So where did you end up mo reb on your plans to learn the game?




paulderynck -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 8:46:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
paulderynck
You have absolutely no idea how much your approval of what I wrote means to me.


Yes I do paulderynck.


How much?




Empire101 -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 9:03:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Let cooler heads prevail.


Hear Hear.
I think we got a little hot under the collar.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

4) I am not a Noble, a member of the landed gentry, a man of independent means, or a valet.



+1
That made me laugh![:D]




Missouri_Rebel -> RE: Manual Download (10/10/2012 9:17:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

We had a vote Michael while you were away and it looks like you were overruled and I am in. Now be a nice lad and send me all available material.

My mother told me her biggest wish for me in life was for me to become a WiF beta tester. I guess I'll have to call her and tell her the bad news. It's gonna break her heart I hope you know.

Of course you were probably scared I'd mop you up in my very first ever WiF game. I might not.

mo reb

warspite1

Mo Reb, why not send a PM to Steve, see what he thinks. Might be worth a try.



Ah, the man has his health to deal with and enough on his plate. I won't pester him.

But thanks warspite. I thought it a good idea.

mo reb
warspite1

So where did you end up mo reb on your plans to learn the game?


I'm not sure where I stand right now. As it is I'm searching the net for any info about WiF and the conclusion I have come to is that most of the sites that were around at one point and are linked to in the few fan sites I come across are dead. Surprisingly, there is not much out there.

I plan on reading up on the rules and trying to apply it in VASSAL along with any aids I can find. I wish I could find a cheap copy of the boardgame so I have both the scenario rules and the scenario setups.

All in all pretty early. I want to take my time and as expected, life goes on in between. Plus, I have some great games to play as it stands. As a matter of fact, I have too many games on my hard drive that don't get the right attention before another comes out. Been some good releases this year IMO.

I'm open for suggestions.

mo reb




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