RE: 1EyedJacks VS Bullwinkle58: A knife fight has no house rules (Full Version)

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PaxMondo -> RE: 1EyedJacks VS Bullwinkle58: A knife fight has no house rules (10/6/2012 1:11:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

1.† I'm not sure that 3ID's can take PH, but I've never sandboxed it.† I tend to agree, not sure it is worth it ... unless you can really get it quick and capture all that fuel.† Then maybe there is some payback.† But then, why not grab SD/LA.† Destroying all of those a/c factories would actually tip things in your favor ...

2.† Yes, I can't see allies putting more troops into China ... can't generate enough supply if you cannot pull from the coast and IJ owns the coast.

3.† Singers to Fusan works for me, but you need to start on Day 1 as Fusan is a max level 8 port.† Singers to PA is pretty easy to get in place as PA is lvl 9 port and you can build up the AF and Forts to make it the biggest in Asia and pull everthing there.


You've done this?!!! I was thinking that if I could run Singers to Shanghai that'd be swell - and then extra from Manchukuo would drop down to Fusan. I'm really keen to try this out. How much are you actually seeing pulled into Fusan daily when it's at level 8? Does an HQ or two help the process? HQs add to the base level - right?

TTFN,

Mike


HQ amd naval support have no impact to resource movement to my knowledge. Resource production, LI/HI and overall size of the base (P+AF+0.5xF or something like this is the formula). To get stuff to flow, you have to get your port to be the "biggest" around. Singers, HK, and Shanghai are all big to start with. Getting PA or Fusan to be bigger isn't easy, especially Fusan. It took me a lot of sandboxing to work this out for me. You have to completely build up Fusan and you have to be very careful of shipping anything out of Asia except at Fusan. PA is MUCH easier to get to work. Shanghai even easier.



So Cam Ranh Bay to Shanghai is totally doable... Is there any loss/waste from sending oil/fuel/resources/supplies across by land?



My understanding is that only Fuel/supplies have loss. resources/oil are not subject to those rules. I've never tested to see how much fuel is lost. There are tables in the manual that would allow you to calculate an approximate loss. All I know is that it is far less than the fuel burned in TK's moving it by sea.

Getting this to flow takes a lot of serious dedication. I spent a lot of time sandboxing this to get it work.

To get CRB to Shanghai to work is fairly easy. You just have to get Shanghai to look the biggest place compared to HK, Singers or PA. So, be really careful building up any of those 3, and be sure to build up Shanghai to max.

Here are the relevant factors from my testing (I'm 99% sure that res/oil centers are involved and 50% sure that HI/LI/Refinery are as well):

Shanghai: P=7(7), AF=4(7), F=4(9), Res=20, HI=120, LI=120 => 13 + 260
Singers: P=9(8), AF= 6(7), F=0(9), Res=20, HI=70, LI=40 => 15 + 130
HK: P=8(8), AF=4(7), F=0(9), Res=60 , HI=160, LI=220 => 12 + 440
PA: P=9(9), AF=4(7), F=3(9), Res=20, HI=20, LI=80, REF=120 => 14.5 + 240
Fusan: P=4(5), AF=3(7), F=1(9), Res=20, LI=40

As you can see, Shanghai has a lot of factories present which allow it to appear bigger than Singers fairly easily. The catch is HK. Many players want to build up HK's port and industry, but if you do this will negate the oil/resource flow strategy. You cannot do both.

PA also, but not as easily as Shanghai, can also be built to be bigger than Singers, but not quite as easily. Again, you cannot touch any of those other ports. No repairs to industry and no forts.

Fusan is really tough to do. You can't get your port to be as big as either PA or Singers and you don't have nearly as much industry. It is a struggle to get it to flow to Fusan instead of PA to start and then once Shanghai is connected, again tough to be pulling from Shanghai, and then again once HK is connected ...

PA = 14.5 + 240 factories. Fusan is only 7.5 + 60 factories. You can build Fusan up to a max of 21.5 + 60 starting factories. Everything else has to look smaller than that to the resource flow AI ... I don't beleive the entire formula has ever been shared, but the facility points count a lot more than the factory points, and res/oil centers seem to count more than the other factories. Even so, Fusan starts behind PA and it is tough to get flow to move there.

Finally, and this is really critical: since the last update Michael made to the resource flow alogrithm back in the early part of the 5th? beta, once the flow is moving in a direction it is really, really relunctant to change. So, when I start a game I know within 20 days if I will be able to use Fusan as my port or if I will prefer to switch to PA or Shanghai. Not to suggest that there won't be further challenges, but if you can't get the flow moving to Fusan from PA early, you will never succeed once Shanghai connects.

Why my focus on this? Simple, the potential fuel savings is mind boggling. Changes the entire economy for IJ, and that really is the game (at least for MikeS and I this is a game of logisitics with some battles thrown in for giggles and grins. [:D] )




witpqs -> RE: 1EyedJacks VS Bullwinkle58: A knife fight has no house rules (10/6/2012 3:04:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

Hey guys - quick question on upgrading with the beta in a PBEM...

We are running 1117E and want to upgrade to 1118G. So we both install the latest update while Japan is at the enter-orders phase of the turn - right? And when I send the turn to Steve for him to input orders he'll already be upgraded - he'll enter his orders and send it back to me to process the turn.



Use this procedure: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2233574

What he said. In my own words:

- Japan enters orders turn A with old software.
- Allies enter orders turn A with old software.
- Japan runs turn resolution turn A with old software.
- Allies run combat replay turn A with old software.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <----- Upgrade software here.
- Japan enters orders turn B with new software.
- Allies enter orders turn B with new software.
- Japan runs turn resolution turn B with new software.
- Allies run combat replay turn B with new software.

Notice that the deal is that everything for a specific turn gets done with the same software.




1EyedJacks -> RE: 1EyedJacks VS Bullwinkle58: A knife fight has no house rules (10/7/2012 8:06:46 AM)

Hey guys - I wanted to say thanks for the instructions on doing the upgrades. I've already shared them with Steve.

Also - Pax - thanks for the details on setting up the land route. I'll probably do Cam Ranh Bay as my main port in that region and run my resources & oil across.

I'll be on travel most of next week.

TTFN,

Mike




PaxMondo -> RE: 1EyedJacks VS Bullwinkle58: A knife fight has no house rules (10/7/2012 1:12:40 PM)

Note that the latest beta patch has a change in the movement of resources ... they are slowed down quite a bit.  I beleive this will actually help the Singers -> Fusan movement overall, but will make getting it setup take even longer ....




1EyedJacks -> Combat Report 12-11-41 (10/14/2012 4:50:03 PM)

Here's the Combat Report for the 11th.





1EyedJacks -> pretty pictures 12-11-41 (10/14/2012 5:20:03 PM)

pic

[image]local://upfiles/20162/FC1A465B90BC437F9124BBC3D14B5F7F.jpg[/image]




1EyedJacks -> pretty pictures 12-11-41 (10/14/2012 5:20:54 PM)

pic



[image]local://upfiles/20162/BE4879C4ECB2488AA9FD320534B46806.jpg[/image]




1EyedJacks -> RE: pretty pictures 12-11-41 (10/14/2012 10:01:13 PM)

Pic



[image]local://upfiles/20162/F0C3D51934ED4B1F837F39FF9864A380.jpg[/image]




1EyedJacks -> RE: pretty pictures 12-11-41 (10/15/2012 4:27:29 AM)

pic 12.12.41



[image]local://upfiles/20162/9B60350A56CC434999CEAE75A4E0C1FB.jpg[/image]




1EyedJacks -> Combat Report for 12.12.41 (10/18/2012 4:54:57 AM)

Combat Report 12.12.41




1EyedJacks -> Sun Glare (10/18/2012 4:57:40 AM)

Hi guys Ė sorry for being a bit spotty in my postings Ė thereís just a lot going on in my personal life right now till after the November elections.

12.12.41
So Guam and Hong Kong fell this turn. When I attack Hong Kong I like to use my transports to fly in supplies. In WiTP you get a bonus if you have 2X the supplies for your LCU. Although I havenít found anything in the AE manual that states the same bonus is in effect I havenít heard anyone say that itís not in effect either. So I attacked a turn, rested a turn, and attacked and took the city on the 3rd day in fulfillment of my script.

I used the 51st Naval Guard unit (that would have attacked Wake?) as my initial thrust on Johnston Isle. I need to look back a turn but I suspect they were pre-set to shock attack Ďcause they did at 1:2 odds. No major damage to the troops other than a lot of disruption. This will put me behind a turn or twoÖ

My subs VS Steveís ASW TFs around Hawaii have had really strange dealings. My subs launch torpedoes and miss while his DDs expend all DC and miss. If I wasnít seeing actual successful sub and ASW attacks in other locations of the board Iíd be thinking something was mucked up with ASW in the beta version we are playing. Three Divisions plus support are prepping for PH while additional units are prepping to take the rest of the bases in the Hawaiian Islands. Once I own the air Iíll be able to take PH. I just need to keep enough damage on the port/airfield so he canít build up his forts. What Iím most worried about are Steveís BBs. I donít think I did his BBs enough damage with KB so any initial invasion could be bloody if I donít have strong BB support of my own.

Troops from the 15th Army & the RTA are finally out of the RR phase to bases close to the Burma frontier and are now starting to move along the trails. I think Iím doing well in suppressing or at least forcing Steve to burn through his fighters. I can make fighters faster than Steve gets his replacements right now so I want to take advantage of that.

Iím hoping I can really drive through Steve in China and push directly into Burma & India. What Iím really hoping to do is route his China troops and never give them the chance to recover. I think I can destroy most of his LCU in China and push any REMF units all the way through Burma and slaughter them as they run out of supplies. At the same time Iíll try to back-door India. It wonít be a surprise as Steve will see it happening. I will need to insure I fight on favorable terrain.

Engineers with aviation support are arriving in Malaya so I can start up air ops in earnest around Singapore. My grunts are marching to drive Steveís troops to Singapore.

Amphibious TFs are nearing the NW tip of Borneo so I can take on Singkawang et-all and establish air ops from there. Mini KBs will drive from the Celebes Sea, through Sulu and over to Cam Ranh Bay to reload beans and bullets. Iíll use them plus a few BB to drive home my assault of Palembang. Subs are cruising the waters throughout those waters to try and prevent Steve from doing a fortress Palembang. I was the recipient of the first one devised by Nemo. Thatís not gunna happen again <grin>.

The Philippines is going as a standard campaign. I want to bottle him up and then attrit his LCU and force him to use up his supplies.

What I want to do is drive through Rabaul/Port Moresby and then work my way north through the DEI and all the way back up to Malaya/Sumatra. Iím trying to cut off his forces from retreat/resupply from Oz.

Iíll try to get a few maps out with my general attack vectors (maybe Friday) but my first commitment is to keep Steve reasonably supplies with turns <grin>

TTFN,

Mike




PaxMondo -> RE: Sun Glare (10/18/2012 5:17:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

... What Iím really hoping to do is route his China troops and never give them the chance to recover. I think I can destroy most of his LCU in China and push any REMF units all the way through Burma and slaughter them as they run out of supplies. At the same time Iíll try to back-door India. .


This will work IF if the allies try to defend forward. If he pulls back right away and gets defensive forts built in the 3x terrain around the Chungking valley, then you will have a VERY tough time. If he tries to defend Sian, you got him. You'll need all of your 1E and 2E IJA bombers .... the disruption needs to be maintained ...




Dan Nichols -> RE: Sun Glare (10/18/2012 5:18:51 AM)

A couple of notes.

1. Johnson Island is an atoll, you will always shock attack.
2. It is very hard to hit small ships with large maneuver ratings, you will miss a lot of DDs and such.
3. Allied ship experience starts very low and he will not have much success in his ASW attacks early on.




1EyedJacks -> RE: Sun Glare (10/18/2012 5:29:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

A couple of notes.

1. Johnson Island is an atoll, you will always shock attack.
2. It is very hard to hit small ships with large maneuver ratings, you will miss a lot of DDs and such.
3. Allied ship experience starts very low and he will not have much success in his ASW attacks early on.



I hear you <grin>. There's just been a *lot* of attacks on both sides. I think the I-171 might have had a bulb break from a distant DC attack.

My favorite message right now is that one where it says the DC attack was too high - lol.




1EyedJacks -> RE: Sun Glare (10/18/2012 5:31:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

... What Iím really hoping to do is route his China troops and never give them the chance to recover. I think I can destroy most of his LCU in China and push any REMF units all the way through Burma and slaughter them as they run out of supplies. At the same time Iíll try to back-door India. .


This will work IF if the allies try to defend forward. If he pulls back right away and gets defensive forts built in the 3x terrain around the Chungking valley, then you will have a VERY tough time. If he tries to defend Sian, you got him. You'll need all of your 1E and 2E IJA bombers .... the disruption needs to be maintained ...



I can just cut off the supply routes and fire-bomb the city so it can't make supplies - yes?




PaxMondo -> RE: Sun Glare (10/18/2012 11:56:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

... What Iím really hoping to do is route his China troops and never give them the chance to recover. I think I can destroy most of his LCU in China and push any REMF units all the way through Burma and slaughter them as they run out of supplies. At the same time Iíll try to back-door India. .


This will work IF if the allies try to defend forward. If he pulls back right away and gets defensive forts built in the 3x terrain around the Chungking valley, then you will have a VERY tough time. If he tries to defend Sian, you got him. You'll need all of your 1E and 2E IJA bombers .... the disruption needs to be maintained ...



I can just cut off the supply routes and fire-bomb the city so it can't make supplies - yes?


Not sure I understand ... yes to your question, but how it relates to my comment eludes me ... [:(]




1EyedJacks -> RE: Sun Glare (10/19/2012 11:58:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

... What Iím really hoping to do is route his China troops and never give them the chance to recover. I think I can destroy most of his LCU in China and push any REMF units all the way through Burma and slaughter them as they run out of supplies. At the same time Iíll try to back-door India. .


This will work IF if the allies try to defend forward. If he pulls back right away and gets defensive forts built in the 3x terrain around the Chungking valley, then you will have a VERY tough time. If he tries to defend Sian, you got him. You'll need all of your 1E and 2E IJA bombers .... the disruption needs to be maintained ...



I can just cut off the supply routes and fire-bomb the city so it can't make supplies - yes?


Not sure I understand ... yes to your question, but how it relates to my comment eludes me ... [:(]



If they defend 4ward I will smite them with my additional numbers. If they fall back they can't well defend w/o supplies. Block the roads - fire bomb the four cities in the valley and let them stew w/o supplies for 6 months while I bypass with remaining troops. I should then be able to go back and take them out with 4 grannies and a broom.





1EyedJacks -> 12.14.41 (10/20/2012 8:55:44 PM)

I dumped the movie to Steve last night and the turn for him to input this morning B4 0900. My hope is to get a pair or more of turns completed this weekend.

In China Iíve noticed that Steve is pulling troops back from around Nanning, the area around Chengting, and it appears around Changsha. He must have something in mind Ė maybe trying to draw a defensive line in favorable terrain. At any rate Iím pushing units forward to try and keep contact. I have limited Aviation support in the China Theatre but there are units on the way into China from Manchukuo. Once they are in place I can bring more air units into play in the China theatre. I have reassigned air units out of Canton for ground and recon attacks now that Hong Kong has fallen. Hopefully more will be revealed.

In Burma and Malaya troops are moving towards targets. Alor Star should fall next turn. It looks like Steve is pulling down to Singapore. Around Rangoon his CAP seems to be petering off after repeated sweeps with Oscars and Zeroes. He let his AVG get trashed here (which works for me). Three and 4:1 odds in dog fights will take down even the best of them <grin>. Almost always the Oscars would sweep first and then the Zeroes. That seems strange to me since the Zeroes have a faster cruise and max speed and both units are out of Bangkok. Maybe the navy pukes canít hold their booze like army troopsÖ (I could be starting something here <grin>)

Both mini-KB TFs are in the South China Sea and headed for beans and bullets too after which theyíll help support my push for Palembang.

Johnston Isle fell and Iíve got zeroes based for CAP. KB is due east of Johnston. Steve has been running little TFs to Johnston to try and disrupt my landing or supply TFs. Iíve slipped a Surface TF into the hex with CL and DD to see if I can snake those PITAs before they cause mischief. Next turn Iíll run KB for a resupply of AC, beans and bullets. That should give my BBs time to get up and help support attacks in the Hawaiian bases.






PaxMondo -> RE: Sun Glare (10/20/2012 11:05:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

If they defend 4ward I will smite them with my additional numbers. If they fall back they can't well defend w/o supplies. Block the roads - fire bomb the four cities in the valley and let them stew w/o supplies for 6 months while I bypass with remaining troops. I should then be able to go back and take them out with 4 grannies and a broom.



Now I see, yes since you can strategic bomb in China you can (and should) nuke the supply producing centers. Once you block the Burma road, the only supplies will be via air lift. Then yes, great numbers will starve ... how many will depend upon how committed he is to the air lift.




1EyedJacks -> A Spanking (10/21/2012 4:40:26 PM)

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 15, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 163,111, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Tenryu
CL Tatsuta
DD Kisaragi
DD Yayoi
PB Ikuta Maru
PB Kaikei Maru

Allied Ships
DMS Elliot, Shell hits 1

Reduced sighting due to 10% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 10% moonlight: 5,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 5,000 yards
Japanese open fire on surprised Allied ships at 5,000 yards
CL Tatsuta fires at DMS Elliot at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DMS Elliot at 2,000 yards
Osborne K. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 4,000 yards
PB Ikuta Maru engages DMS Elliot at 4,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DMS Elliot at 7,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DMS Elliot at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
PB Kaikei Maru engages DMS Elliot at 12,000 yards
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 164,111, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Tenryu
CL Tatsuta
DD Kisaragi
DD Yayoi
PB Ikuta Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
PB Kaikei Maru

Allied Ships
DMS Elliot, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Reduced sighting due to 10% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 10% moonlight: 4,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 4,000 yards
Japanese launch Long Lance torpedoes at 4,000 yards before allies detect Japanese presence
CL Tatsuta fires at DMS Elliot at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DMS Elliot at 3,000 yards
PB Ikuta Maru engages DMS Elliot at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DMS Elliot at 7,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DMS Elliot at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
PB Ikuta Maru engages DMS Elliot at 11,000 yards
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Johnston Island at 167,109, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Tenryu, Shell hits 3
CL Tatsuta, Shell hits 3
DD Kisaragi, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yayoi, Shell hits 2, on fire
PB Ikuta Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
PB Kaikei Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Mugford, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Patterson, Shell hits 1
DD Jarvis
DD Cummings, Shell hits 1
DD Case
DD Conyngham
DD Tucker, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 21,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 21,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Tucker at 21,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Conyngham at 21,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Cummings at 21,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Tucker at 17,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Conyngham at 17,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Tucker at 17,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Cummings at 17,000 yards
DD Cummings engages PB Ikuta Maru at 17,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Mugford at 17,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Tucker at 16,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Conyngham at 16,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Case at 16,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Tucker at 16,000 yards
DD Conyngham engages PB Ikuta Maru at 16,000 yards
DD Mugford engages DD Yayoi at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Tucker at 13,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Mugford at 13,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Conyngham at 13,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Cummings at 13,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Patterson at 13,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Mugford at 13,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
DD Tucker engages DD Yayoi at 10,000 yards
DD Conyngham engages DD Kisaragi at 10,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Yayoi at 10,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Cummings at 10,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Yayoi at 10,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Patterson at 10,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Mugford at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Conyngham at 7,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Case at 7,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Cummings at 7,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Jarvis at 7,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Patterson at 7,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Mugford at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Tucker at 6,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Mugford at 6,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Case at 6,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Yayoi at 6,000 yards
DD Conyngham engages PB Kaikei Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Patterson engages DD Yayoi at 6,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Mugford at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Conyngham at 5,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Patterson at 5,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Case at 5,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Cummings at 5,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Jarvis at 5,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Mugford at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Mugford at 4,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Conyngham at 4,000 yards
DD Conyngham engages DD Yayoi at 4,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Jarvis at 4,000 yards
DD Patterson engages PB Ikuta Maru at 4,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Mugford at 4,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
DD Tucker engages DD Kisaragi at 5,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Case at 5,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Case at 5,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Cummings at 5,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Kisaragi at 5,000 yards
DD Conyngham engages PB Ikuta Maru at 5,000 yards
DD Mugford engages DD Kisaragi at 5,000 yards
Baba, Yoshifumi orders Japanese TF to disengage
CL Tatsuta engages DD Conyngham at 5,000 yards
DD Conyngham engages CL Tenryu at 5,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Case at 5,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Kisaragi at 5,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Jarvis at 5,000 yards
DD Patterson engages PB Ikuta Maru at 5,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Mugford at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
DD Tucker engages DD Yayoi at 7,000 yards
DD Conyngham engages DD Kisaragi at 7,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Mugford at 7,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Cummings at 7,000 yards
DD Patterson engages PB Kaikei Maru at 7,000 yards
DD Patterson engages DD Yayoi at 7,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Mugford at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
DD Case engages CL Tatsuta at 8,000 yards
DD Conyngham engages DD Yayoi at 8,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Tucker at 8,000 yards
DD Mugford engages PB Kaikei Maru at 8,000 yards
DD Mugford engages DD Yayoi at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
DD Tucker engages DD Kisaragi at 13,000 yards
DD Conyngham engages DD Kisaragi at 13,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Patterson at 13,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Case at 13,000 yards
DD Patterson engages PB Kaikei Maru at 13,000 yards
DD Tucker engages PB Ikuta Maru at 13,000 yards
DD Mugford engages DD Yayoi at 13,000 yards
Young, E. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 17,000 yards
DD Kisaragi engages DD Tucker at 17,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Cummings at 17,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Case at 17,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Cummings at 17,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages PB Kaikei Maru at 17,000 yards
DD Patterson engages DD Yayoi at 17,000 yards
DD Mugford engages DD Yayoi at 17,000 yards
Range increases to 21,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Tucker at 21,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Conyngham at 21,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Case at 21,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Cummings at 21,000 yards
CL Tatsuta engages DD Jarvis at 21,000 yards
CL Tenryu engages DD Mugford at 21,000 yards
Task forces break off...


So this is what I think happened in the series above. My TF is on Surface Combat and expended most of its munitions against a DMS and then got clocked by a 7DD TF from Steve. Or maybe I just rolled bad dice a few times? The night-time engagements were low moonlight. Any thoughts other then bad die rolls for not sinking the DMS quickly within the first engagement?

I've been getting a few of these types of attacks (I had similar experiences in the South China Sea against a few fleeing DDs from Hong Kong) where my TF is of superior strength but does poorly against a much smaller allied TF. It just seems weird when I see several Japanese war ships firing on a lone enemy ship and I walk away with less than a handful of hits.

Thoughts/insights appreciated.




1EyedJacks -> RE: A Spanking (10/21/2012 4:57:21 PM)

In China I'm clearing up my rear area and pushing 4ward. Additional Troops from Manchukuo have arrived and are moving about the board, some to garrison bases and others to push Steve into a corner. I'm looking 4 opportunities to hit him with a bigger stick and trash moral/disruption. Keeping him moving should eat up his supplies...

I'm clearing mines @ Hong Kong

Steve is pounding oil @ Miri with 4E bombers. I was using Nates but they are ineffective. Oscars get the next try.

In Malaya Alor Star fell. My mini-KBs should refuel this turn and then I'll combine them for Palembang. Air support is almost in place and troops are pushing down to Singapore. Steve is retreating faster than I can catch up. I never figured him for a Sir Robin.

KB is off to get beans and bullets. I have fighters CAPing Johnston and ASW + Surface Combat TFs working that area.




ny59giants -> RE: A Spanking (10/21/2012 5:06:44 PM)

quote:

KB is off to get beans and bullets


This phrase is correct for the Allies only. For Japan it should be "rice and bullets." [:D]




Dan Nichols -> RE: A Spanking (10/21/2012 5:33:44 PM)

I think the PBs in your SCTF are a detriment. Their maneuver rating is a lot lower than the other ships in the TF.




1EyedJacks -> RE: A Spanking (10/21/2012 5:56:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

I think the PBs in your SCTF are a detriment. Their maneuver rating is a lot lower than the other ships in the TF.


That's an interesting concept and one I haven't thought of B4. I will go back and look at my TFs in the South China Sea that experienced similar problems with attacking a single ship (in those encounters they were single DDs). Thanks for the observation.




SqzMyLemon -> RE: A Spanking (10/21/2012 6:25:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

I think the PBs in your SCTF are a detriment. Their maneuver rating is a lot lower than the other ships in the TF.


Exactly. Handcuffing a SCTF with PB's is never good. An invasion TF, sure attach some PB's, but in this case you killed your TF speed shackling the DD's with 11-14kt PB's. Not hard to see why the Allied DD's ran circles around you.




1EyedJacks -> RE: A Spanking (10/21/2012 6:46:32 PM)

This is from 12.8.41 (looking at TF maneuver ratings as possibilities for poor gunnery performance in Surface Combat)

Day Time Surface Combat, near Hong Kong at 76,66, Range 14,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Ikazuchi
DD Inazuma, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Thanet, Shell hits 2, on fire

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 14,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Thanet at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
DD Inazuma engages DD Thanet at 9,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Thanet at 9,000 yards
Davies, E.S. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range closes to 7,000 yards
DD Inazuma collides with DD Ikazuchi at 76 , 66
DD Inazuma engages DD Thanet at 7,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Thanet at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
DD Inazuma engages DD Thanet at 11,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Thanet at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 17,000 yards
DD Inazuma engages DD Thanet at 17,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Thanet at 17,000 yards
Task forces break off...

Day Time Surface Combat, near Hong Kong at 75,65, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Ikazuchi, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Inazuma, Shell hits 7, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Scout, Shell hits 1

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 20,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Lambton, H. crosses the 'T'
DD Inazuma engages DD Scout at 20,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards
DD Inazuma engages DD Scout at 16,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Inazuma at 12,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Inazuma at 10,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
DD Inazuma engages DD Scout at 7,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Inazuma at 6,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Inazuma at 5,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 5,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Inazuma at 5,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Ikazuchi at 5,000 yards
Lambton, H. orders Allied TF to disengage
DD Inazuma engages DD Scout at 5,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
DD Inazuma engages DD Scout at 10,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Ikazuchi at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 15,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 15,000 yards
DD Ikazuchi engages DD Scout at 15,000 yards
Kudo, Shunsaku orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 19,000 yards
Task forces break off...

What I note is that these engagements are long range - my TFs did not close in these engagements. Looking at the Commander for this TF Naval skill is lite. Aggression is high which gives me the two encounters probably. I wonder if there is anything that would help get my TF to try and close range?

18123 CDR Kusumoto W. LDR69 INSP60 NAV45 AIR19 LAND11 ADM55 AGG61 PP6 BEST-Ship IJ Navy Assigned-DD Ikazuchi





1EyedJacks -> RE: A Spanking (10/21/2012 7:08:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

I think the PBs in your SCTF are a detriment. Their maneuver rating is a lot lower than the other ships in the TF.


Exactly. Handcuffing a SCTF with PB's is never good. An invasion TF, sure attach some PB's, but in this case you killed your TF speed shackling the DD's with 11-14kt PB's. Not hard to see why the Allied DD's ran circles around you.


Perhaps but what I saw in the movie (and isn't obvious from the combat sequence) is that my ships have a strongly reduced return fire rate against the 7DD TF. Perhaps that is the reduction in speed (and those 7DD running circles around me) but in those first two encounters against the DMS Elliot my ships are blasting away from knife range out to 12000 yrds and then again from 9k to 4k and then back out to 11k and my ships are firing everything including torpedoes...

I am more inclined to think I ran out of ammo from attacking the DMS twice (at least - looking @ the TF after the three engagements they are pretty much empty of bullets except the CL Tenryu). The CPT of the Tenryu has Naval/Aggression ratings of 74/73. LDR/INS is 56/77. The CL Tenryu still has 2/3 ammo available on her main guns.

I wonder why the Tenryu was lite in her combat opportunities?




1EyedJacks -> RE: A Spanking (10/21/2012 8:28:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

KB is off to get beans and bullets


This phrase is correct for the Allies only. For Japan it should be "rice and bullets." [:D]


Ahh my friend - think bean curd ala tofu... Rice alone will not make a sailor face the flickering flames of war. To stand in the face of such withering naval combat a sailor needs sustenance that sticks to one's bones (perhaps with a liberal amount of rice wine (sake) to aid in digestion).




1EyedJacks -> Combat Report 12.15.41 (10/21/2012 8:31:57 PM)

For your downloading pleasure. [:'(]





1EyedJacks -> Advice Requested (10/23/2012 5:25:28 AM)

Hi Guys - hey help me out here please.

For LCU - I've got a couple of units that I want to drop their fatigue/disruption as fast as I can. Is there anything in the leader ratings I can use that you *know* works? I think I want to set the units to RESERVE with the thought they will recover faster. Is this an urban myth or should I just leave them at COMBAT but no movement. I'm gunna flood the base with supplies thinking 2x supplies or better should help reduce disruption.

What do you do to drop fatigue/disruption?

My Hibiki is damaged and I want to get her to a port for repairs. The closest decent base is Cam Ranh Bay. The closest base is Miri. Hibiki broke off into it's own TF - so she's solo with the following damage 63/23/22/49. the 23 flood damage - 5 is Major.
- run at cruise speed or stay @ mission speed?
- try to get other DD to match with Hibiki (thinking they'll help fight fires)
- try to sit in a hex and "hide" for a turn or two while fighting fires/damage and then shoot for Cam Ranh Bay?
- Miriis 16 hexes & Cam Ranh Bay is 23 hexes away.
- Forcast Partly Cloudy (Advanced weather is off in this game) Moonlight 0%

What would you do and why? Is there any other information you'd look at to help you make a decision?

And thanks in advance for your feedback.




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