RE: Trippin' the Trappen (Full Version)

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wallas -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/12/2012 6:17:02 PM)

Infantry would def help I have been obsessed with conserving my army and its still pretty mauled.

LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 6:44:10 AM)

Turn 27: July 3rd, 1942. Weather: Dry.....

The Russians counterattack! They drive the GD and 29th mot (who were stacked together) back over the bridge north of Voronezh! Losses where 1200 brave german soldiers to 1400 russian conscripts, with 70 burning russian wrecks to my 25. The worst loss was the loss of 700 of my trucks.

Instead of playing an attack card on the GD, I would have been better off with an entrenchment card, or a defense card, last turn. However, with an entire Panzer Corp sitting in front of the bridge, I will soon make amends :) Elsewhere, the Russians pull back slightly, and hold in most places adjacent to my forces.

Voronezh Front: My panzer corp strikes, and drives 20 km to the next river, cutting the road from Voronezh to Chiew..(cant read the rest). The entire panzer corp and half the motorized corp is now across the way he will force that back. My airforce strikes the bridges around Voronezh, destroying two that lead directly into Voronezh from behind, but fail to blow the one leading north. My goal is to force his supply to cross the river, to make an assualt on the city easier (like my assualt on Sevastopol).

Millerowo Front: My Panzer corp finally sorts itself out from last turns Gamble by Raus, and a chagrined SS Wiking attacks and takes the Fortifications on the rail line leading to Millerowo. 17th Army is over the River Don in force and heading straight for Millerowo as well, fighting and pushing back the russians 10 km.

Rostov Front: In a bold move, the 73rd Infantry division notices that the town Bagaleveskya is defended by a very beat up rifle regiment and a hurt rifle regiment. After consulting with the Korp commander, he authorizes a direct assault, over the river into the town using rubber rafts. The assault works! And at a low loss of life. The Italians also cross the first river to the east of Rostov in a more bloody affair. The Romanians continue their long trek east along the Don to cover the flank.

In the center, the III panzer continues it's slow push north towards Voronezh, trying to unhinge his river defence.


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 6:55:14 AM)

Turn 28: July 5, 1942. Weather: It's raining again, I know my blitzkrieg is at an end...

The Russians have pulled back big time in the center, and back around Millerowo. He also pulls back over the second river in the far north, leaving behind an engineer to blow the bridge in that town in the far north. In Rostov, I notice the appearance of the 17th, 18th, and 21st Tank Corps, with a single artillery in support. He also has the 17th Cavalry corp in the swamp next to Rostov (but over the river to me). In each hex I have two Hungarian divisions, with the Hungarian tank division in reserve behind the line. As well, I have added a security division to the Italians on the left flank of the Hungarians, and every hex has a stug/marder battalion in support. As I can see the 5th Tank army in the far north fighting to keep Voronezh, I won't panic (yet).

Voronezh Front:


Despite the rain, using every plane that can reach, I manage to blow the last bridge bringing supply into the city of Voronezh. Looking at the map, I notice that the Bryansk front is on the wrong side of the river from the 5th Tank army and one of the Army HQ's for the units in Voronezh. This means that his supply travels from STAVKA, over the river to the Bryansk front....back over the River to the Army HQ.....then back over the river into the city. With the rain, there is a very good chance that most of the units in the city will be out of, or on very low, supply. I have a very special assault planned for next turn.

Meanwhile my panzers advance into the vacated hexes, and a simple assault takes the city (which by coincidence, OKH assigned as a prestige city this turn!)

My prestige (already at 33) will climb to 34.

LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 7:05:06 AM)

Millerowo Front:

With the russians falling back to the city, I push forward with 2 infantry corps (of the 17th army) tasked with taking the city over the next few days. As it is only 20 km from my infantry, i feel that my Panzer Korp is no longer needed, so I send it down the rail line to move in a different direction. With the mud, I wouldnt have been able to use it effectively anyways on his units, and I know it will put a scare into him until he knows where it has gone.


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 7:12:37 AM)

Rostov Front: As you can see, my axis minors are blazing a colourful path along the city and River Don. Because I have no german divisions all along this front, I am at some risk to Russian counterattacks. However, I have so many minor divisions ( and a few more in reserve as cards), I will let him attack me, hoping they will bleed him. If he dislodges my line, I can retreat a couple hexes, and let him follow me as I can keep the line continuous. Eventually, I will probably have my entire panzer force down here after the fall of Voronezh and Millerowo.

If he retreats me and follows, he will be out in the open, where he will be vulnerable to counterattacking from multiple sides...with little entrenchment. In the city he is invunerable, but out in the open, I can attrition him....albeit at the cost of Spirit Level.


Bonners -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 11:20:22 AM)

Fascinating stuff, really useful seeing the stage you are at now.....this shows how the axis offensive should be done.

LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 6:35:38 PM)

Turn 29: July 7th, 1942. Weather: Clear

In the north, the russians retreat over the second river, leaving a screening force besides Voronezh. The bridges remain blown as his engineer inside the city does not have enough AP's to repair the bridge (probably because of lack of supply). His other engineer is only at 20% integrity, so probably lacks the engineer points needed.

In the center, he pulls back 20 km to shorten the bulge forming from my attacking panzer korp.

In the south, another tank corp shows up in Rostov. I think the smell of Minor Axis is making them frenzy.

Voronezh Front:

Operation Chaaaaaarrrrgge! goes into effect. First 5th army plays Lead from the Front! While three corp HQ's each send all their assets to help out one division each...The first attack wave goes in, (using less then 100 stacking points to minimize casualties)....and breaks one of the defenders, and retreats most of the rest. Two russian regiments hold on to the city center.

The reserves are sent in, in a fresh assault and after some pretty bad casualites (stacking is over 200 now), dislodge the Russians from the hex, and take Voronezh. Engineers with bridge parts in hand quickly repair the two bridges leading into the city.

All in all I lost about 2000 infantry, while the enemy lost at least 5000. I would have taken a screenshot, but my ventrilo talk button also closes the combat screen [:(]

My opponent now realizes something I figured out a couple turns ago....and that is mud weather hurts the Russians more then it hurts the Germans. The mud turns allow me to restock ammo in my artillery. It also lowers the russians supply, while mine goes back up on the clear turn. I would say that the Luftwaffe took Voronezh, by blowing the three bridges that where supplying it...and with the bad positioning of the Bryansk Front HQ (with our hardcore supply rules on).


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 6:37:25 PM)

A picture of what the Voronezh front looks like now:


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 6:42:38 PM)

Millerowo Front: The infantry move up to engage the Russians, but fail to dislodge the defenders in front of the city. But the corp is confident they can take Millerowo in time.


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 7:04:14 PM)

Rostov Front:

The 1st Korp widens it's bridgehead over the Don, by sending the another infantry division over..while the Rumanians show up to guard the other side of the river bank. I railed a security division down to bolster the Italians, and move it behind the lines where I suspect his tank army is going to attack. I still think it will be a failed assault, only because he lacks a lot of artillery. I also move the 1st Hungarian Panzer division over, in case he does win, so I can attack from 4 sides and push him back into the city. I will essentially use the same tactics back at him that he uses on me :)

The XIV Panzer Korp with the two SS divisions arrives behind the lines, but I would much prefer it heads towards Stalingrad then dealing with an annoyance out of Rostov. My other two panzer korps have also disengaged from the front lines, and will show up in this theater over the next few turns. (as railing them is very very expensive)


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 7:07:15 PM)

Lastly, here is the over all Casualties for both sides: Inflicted:


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 7:08:27 PM)



LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 9:52:57 PM)

Turn 30: July 9, 1042. Weather: Hot and dry.

The Russians are spooked, and withdraw further in the north....but leave a motorized division in the fortified northern part of the city (Voronezh). Only sporadic retreats along the rest of the front, more a case of him straightening his lines...but he is coming up to the Don in some places...He does retreat from in front of Millerowo, though, giving me a three hex front on the city itself.

In Rostov his tank corps disappear. Poof. OKH suspects that the Hungarians imagined the whole thing, and a secret memo goes out to all German commands to ignore any minor Axis 'scare mongering'. Any reports of tank sightings are not to be trusted. The Russians are on the run, and would never launch an assault on any position!

For those keeping score at home, I am up to 43 prestige :) It occurs to me that every ambition card was a success...gaining me the 1 prestige for the card, and the 1 or 2 prestige for the objective....I think that so far I have only missed one objective, and that was when I was rather busy holding back the russians at kharkov.

On the road to Stalingrad, my Panzer Korp hits the line. Fun will ensue.


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/13/2012 11:44:09 PM)

Turn 31: July 11, 1942. The weather is dry, repeat, the weather is dry

The phantom tank army that scared the hungarians so much has appeared at my bridgehead over the Don. As well, my enemy has blown all the bridges in the area, making resupply to my beachhead rather tenuous. So a bold maneuver is formed by Raus who gives freedom to his Panzer Korp to cross the river in force. The SS LAH complies, and are given ample fuel from Korp to fight there way along the Don. The 198th infantry advance farther south away from the Don, and the 73rd help the Italians cross the Don.

Supply will definitly be a problem next turn..especially if it rains.

The rest of the Panzer Korp push along the Northern bank of the Don..although I dont think it will be much use now, looking at the map, as the southern bank seems to be all Marsh. And the goal of this Korp is to cut off Rostov so the Hungarians can march triumphantanly into the new Rostovania.

Oh...did I mention that Millerowo fell? A bit anti-climatic, as he backed further away, and when I attacked it, I had 4 hex sides on it....

The Northern part of Voronezh also fell, due to being surrounded on 4 sides as well. Percentages to combat are a big part of this game..the more the merrier!


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/14/2012 9:03:39 PM)

Turn 32: July 13th, 1942. Weather: Beach Attire only.

The russians are no longer retreating, except in a few obvious extended spots. His Tank Corps near Rostov push my SS advance back a hex, and kick the Romanians back over the river in my bridgehead over the Don.

Rather then fight to expand my bridgehead (mostly due to lack of supply over the major river), I take the city with the bridge and move my engineers in to start repairs on the wrecked bridge. Along the front, I use my infantry to push the russian forces towards the Don, so I can use it as a defensive barrier to thin my lines, and send the extra divisions I free up towards the Caucaus/Stalingrad. It will probably take until the end of July before I can secure my side of the Don.

The rest of the front is rather boring, and not moving very quickly, so here is a snapshot of my Rostov Front:


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/14/2012 9:29:17 PM)

Turn 33: July 15th, 1942. Weather: Sunny days, ohhhhh, sunny, sunny, sunny days!

In the center of the map, the russians pull back 10km along 150km wide area. In the Rostov area, the Tank corps pull back from my beachhead. They launch no attacks.

My engineers do not have enough points to repair the bridge over the Don, so my bridghead maneuvers to fill the vaccuum created by the retreating russians. My supply is green along the river, and yellow inland. But next turn the bridge will be repaired so I can afford to start attacking again.

In the Voronezh area, I start thinning the line along the Don, and pull a Korp of infantry off, to replace my motorized Korp in the far north (which includes the Gross Deutschland). His three remaining bridgheads over the Don are reduced further.

The IIIrd Panzer Korp arrives in the salient pointing at Stalingrad and will soon be pushing forward.


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 5:17:48 AM)

Turn 34: July 17, 1942. Weather: Clear

This turn I thought I would try something different, and started a bombing campaign on bridges in the Caucaus. I manage to destroy two between my bridghead, which will prevent the Russians from putting reinforcements in front of my XIV Panzer Korp. With the bridge newly repaired, I advance forward chasing the retreating Russians...

South of Voronezh, I push another 10km north to squeeze the Russian bridgehead over the Don further.


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 5:31:11 AM)

Turn 35: July 19, 1942. Weather: Still clear.

The Russians counterattack! Unknown to me, 5th Tank army, and a large number of artillery pieces, had slipped over the Don just south of Voronezh. Despite being hit by a rare organizational difficulty penalty, they attack, pushing me back 10 km in most attacks, and fail in one. With one of my infantry divisions behind the lines (so is rested) I use it to spearhead a counterattack, driving two of his tank corps back.

With my motorized Korp in the far north free to move off the lines, as an infantry Korp moves in to replace them...I rail the 29th division to the new battlezone, and while the others move towards the rail line.

The number of causalties on both sides was considerable, with at least 5000 to my 3000 from his attacks, and at least 2000 to my 500 from my counter attack.

Although his attack may not go anywhere, it does tie up my airforce which had started a bridge bombing campaign. It will have to be put on hold, which will affect my ability to outflank Rostov.


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 5:34:12 AM)

In the Rostov area, for the first time ever, I have all three Panzer Korps in range of the 1st Panzer Army. The plan is for one Korp to encircle Rostov, while another drives south to Proletarskaya, and the third pushes for Zimovniki. No doubt the bridges I blew earlier have or are about to be repaired, which means I should expect some company in those two towns.


LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 5:35:48 AM)

Total infantry both sides:


His fighter numbers are approaching the same number as mine after last months fighting, and despite buying three! divebomber cards, my stukas are still 100 planes shy of full strength. My panzer forces have remained fairly constant, as I am reluctant to commit them to a battle unless I feel I really need them. They are roughly 1500 tanks. The Russians have less, but they have an awful lot of heavy and light tanks as make around 2700 tanks total.

olivier34 -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 2:57:40 PM)

Very interesting to see that the soviet can surprise the german player. Your opponent was abble to concentrate some tank corps and artillery. Do you recon all the front every turn or two turns ? This is something I had began to do in my last game but you lose planes doing so...
Losses are not bad for both sides. You have a large amount of tanks (I was down to 1200 at the same date) but more than 600 000 soviet will have to fight all your way to Stalingrad or maybe you plan to play an avoid card of some sort ?
Do you guys think to upgrade to the last version ?

LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 4:06:33 PM)

I was aware of the 5th Tank army around Voronezh, but the front had gone quiet after I took the city. I even noticed that it had moved off the line, and I assumed he was going to rail it to the south. The only activity was me trying to push his remaining bridgheads back over the well, where he hit me doesnt particularly lead anywhere dangerous so I didnt think to examine it.

I hardly ever recon anymore. Instead, I will launch a fighter strike on a city in the back. If it has planes, then great! I get to shoot some down. What usually happens, though, is Russian planes may come up and intercept, and I get to fight an air-air battle. If a lot of his planes come up, then I repeat at different cities until I run out of fighters. If none come up, then I bomb his lines without escort to get more bombers per stack of 100.

I agree, it will be a fight to Stalingrad. Even now, moving down into the Caucaus, we have a continuous line. I expect the same towards Stalingrad. It is why I want to clear the Don and use it as a defensive line. I can thin it out a bit and use the extra units to push forward.

He may have 600k troops, but thats because we started with Trappenjagd. He didnt lose the 200k+ at Kharkov like the russians did historically. What I find interesting is that if I hadnt caused 300k casualties so far, he would have around 1 million right now.

I debated using an avoid card, but they are very expensive. And because I took Millerowo, (I suspect), Berlin has ordered me to take Stalingrad already, although not for a while yet. I feel that it will become the focus of the game, and its outcome will determine the winner/loser of this match.

wallas -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 6:11:37 PM)

For those who care my Russian prestige is at 33, and I would have been 43 but I turned in 10 for a one time shot of 60. As a side not I would NOT do that again, and would advise any russian against playing that card.

wallas -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 6:27:42 PM)



What I find interesting is that if I hadnt caused 300k casualties so far, he would have around 1 million right now.

Yeah but 60% of my divisions/brigades are not combat effective and really need to be disbanded, but atm I need them to hold the line. I just disbanded all my motorized infantry divisions and brigades. Next up is all the tank brigades need to be disolved.

LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 7:11:28 PM)


Note that I changed the Russian starting Strategic Position from 5 to 4, so that every mission he gets is a defensive one. Losses of prestige will be due to me overrunning cities Stalin wanted him to hold. (Other then the starting Kharkov mission).


Keunert -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 8:36:29 PM)

what is the disbanding good for? doesn't this make you lose a lot of pp and experience? a newly created formation (even if it's made out of veterans) will start with low integrity or something?

how do you feel about your advance Liquid? do see any bigger possibilites of encirclements? or will the soviets be able to sustain the order?

wallas -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 8:53:12 PM)



what is the disbanding good for? doesn't this make you lose a lot of pp and experience? a newly created formation (even if it's made out of veterans) will start with low integrity or something?

A unit at 30% integrity once filled back to full strength will also lose experience, so keeping ravaged cadres is pointless. Regarding PP being effected not sure what your talking about, and maybe you could elaborate ? I would rather take the remnants, and put them into the pool for replacements. How I see it anyways

LiquidSky -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/15/2012 9:59:55 PM)

Grand Encirclement of an army (or more) is difficult/impossible in almost any game. This game does give you opportunities, but they are somewhat random as they flow out of the command and control rule. If a russian army gets hit by command and control, it cant move very far (if at all), and might get outflanked.

Without it, the Russian can do a controlled retreat.

I have, on occasion, cut off a division trying to escape, mostly because it could no longer get supply from its HQ, and so didnt get any AP's...

As well, if you hit a unit, and retreat it, then have enough AP's to attack it again, there is a very good chance that it will Break (surrender) on that second attack....or at least Panic (and lose extra steps).

As for breaking through a line, trouble is, you have to attrition the Russians to make the line so thin you can burst through it....and in my game, Wallas is retreating before letting that happen.

We are big on disbanding units to feed into the main army. Probably me more then him.

Integrity is just the percentage size of the unit vrs what it should be at full strength, so a low integrity unit is a unit that has lost a bunch of strength. There is something to be said for keeping your integrity up, as I am pretty sure units are breaking when they reach a certain low point. If you can keep their strength up, then they won't go "poof" in combat. Best source of replacement points is in your units, on the rather then let those low integrity units die, giving up 8-12 strength points up because of a retreat result, disband them and let those points bolster up the units that are at keep them fighting.

The only PP cost I can think of that may enter into this is if you decide to build new units. I believe Wallas is doing that by disbanding tank brigades and motorized brigades to build Tank Corps...which is sort of what they did historically anyways...

Not sure if the experience resets or not, but I suspect that the higher quality disband replacement points will help the replacement pool raise up in quality with the incoming trainee replacement points. So you may lose the 30 experience guy, but the umm 20? experience replacement points that enter the pool will become 25% with an equal amount of disbanee's entering.

Keunert -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/16/2012 8:57:52 AM)

wallas: i thought you wanted to disband left over individual units or individual tank units to create full divisions / tank corps from scratch (paying pp to create those). those formationsould benefit better from cards as a card will affect three or four units instead of just one. At least in Case Blue this is something to think of once the german onslaught is getting slower. but before i felt like i needed every single unit available to build a continious front line. to disband units during summer would be an unaffordable luxury in Case Blue.

what i did and thought worked well was to recreate single tank bat from 5TA. i've set it on priority and tried to keep as many Tank Corps complete as possible. but reading you and Liquid i even think it would be best to disband most or all of the independent single tank brigades to form a few Tank Corps. the one thing that is against it is time and the constant need of more units.

wallas -> RE: Trippin' the Trappen (10/16/2012 4:36:17 PM)


it would be best to disband most or all of the independent single tank brigades to form a few Tank Corps.

Brigades imo are not an ideal unit due to size, and are you going to play a attack card on full strength brigade ? The only soviet brigades I like are the destroyer brigades they are useful since they have a infantry component and can fortify. Tank brigades imo are not ideal for the situation in the summer of 42

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