Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (Full Version)

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Grungar -> Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/22/2012 8:05:20 PM)

Hey guys after running the game on normal for about half the game i turned up the settings running my summer 42 offensive with 90 logistics and germans at 110. The german had a rather large disaster in the fall winter of 41 by pskov. They shoved 5 panzer and about as many motorised behind my pskov bastion and got themselvs a free siberian adventure december first. That no doubt is a serious play weakness[:D] But then after behing drivn back from pskov vitebsk orsha mogilv and much of the ukriane recaptured (kiev was never taken). The germans got a small initiative in the late winter drivingt me back in front of Odessa Wich they did capture in the previous summer only to lose it back in the winter. I was thinking maybe he would come alive. He only made local attacks with dispersed panzer divisons of wich he had 15 still in front of brest around to the north and east along the marsh wich contain 4 of my fronts. Long story short is his entire southern flank was a house of cards. Does everyone elses AI play as soviet result like this? Mybe its bad play in the code from the latest updates? ie pushing large formations of motorised stuff into unknown rear ereas.

[image]local://upfiles/30123/81FC924EDC12445E825545CB4125C78B.gif[/image]




Grungar -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/22/2012 8:20:02 PM)

This should give a better picture of the overal situation. It played so well in the early going pressing natural avenues in my lines and doing turning tactics forcing withdrawls then suddenly it goes insane trying to get to what it thinks is important.

[image]local://upfiles/30123/3F63BDE1D8844B309DE9B8305165E7C3.gif[/image]




Grungar -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/22/2012 8:32:02 PM)

This is the Position in june. It only had allied minors covering the easyest way to berlin or in my limited logistical case allowed me to roll up his front to the south. It did nothing to try to shorten its front attacking localy with no idea of what was up. There must be something that can be done to make it see longer term threats or not go crazy.

[image]local://upfiles/30123/B99EBF9AC77C4DE29721436E3248643F.gif[/image]




Joel Billings -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/22/2012 8:55:19 PM)

Yes, the German AI is weaker than the Soviet AI in 1941 since attacking with the Germans requires some finesse, something the computer just doesn't have. We've suggested that players playing aginast the German AI play at Challenging as soon as they have the basic system down, and at Hard once they have some experience playing the campaign.




Jim D Burns -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/22/2012 11:53:45 PM)

When I play vs. the German AI, I give the soviets 100 in all difficulty settings and I give the axis 125. These settings make for a challenging experience.

I just wish there was a way to double axis production as well, to help make up for the extra losses the AI takes. A human player knows when to stop attacking and dig in, the AI not so much, so it would greatly benefit from some extra depth to its army’s overall loss tolerances.

Jim




Grungar -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/23/2012 7:05:55 AM)

I'm thinking maybe the attacking ai should get recon advantages ie no fog of war at all :D I did give the german advantage in all but fort levels wich the reds had a true advantage but did not punish the reds in supply etc untill 42 when i started to understand how supply works. The production system still eludes me some since i cant find any documentation on the production screen. Whats a transit pool? i guess active pools mean active? and i searched high and low for what the fuel pool is and what makes its numbers. but i digress. sorry ..i love this game and think that a strong ai would at least double its bragging rights and is an avenue for long term if not emediate priority.




DivePac88 -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/23/2012 8:06:29 AM)

I maybe bias, but I think that in WitE Pbem is the only way to go. [;)]




Klydon -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/23/2012 4:32:34 PM)

The German AI has issues at this point and some of the things mentioned will help in terms of turning up the AI settings.

There are some other "abuses" that players should probably avoid using on the AI that players often will not play with in head to head games either. Some of these include limiting bombing of enemy targets, etc.

The German AI seems to be really vulnerable to a Russian winter offensive (I think the last time I played, I probably pocketed/destroyed 30+ German divisions easy). I would look to avoid forcing German units to surrender, but rather just sort of punish them with attacks, etc and I would probably look to limit myself as a Russian to maybe 50 attacks across the front tops on any given turn.

@DivePac88: I think a lot of people probably feel the same way you do, but I also think there are a good number of people that also enjoy playing the Germans against the Russian AI on various settings simply because the game seems more fun that way. While this probably does not include those at the "master" level, the game in its current version is not a lot of fun for either side unless you enjoy the track meet feel of watching the Russians run away in 1941, the Germans run in the winter and the Russians run again in 1942. The Eastern front campaign was a clash of Titans and a brawl, not a track meet.




Pelton -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/23/2012 6:42:13 PM)

Play GHC vs AI
Play SHC vs Humans




juret -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/23/2012 8:04:14 PM)

game is biased towards soviets.

german AI need serius ++++ to win over human soviet.

Only way german human can beet soviet human is by huge mistakes by soviet player.




Klydon -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/23/2012 8:16:15 PM)

Don't judge the German 1941 AI too harshly. I think most AIs play better on defense for the most part. Try a later scenario as the Germans and you will find the Russian AI probably struggles a bit on offense as well.

As far as the game being biased towards the Russians, well yeah it should be to a point. You will find most people agree the Russians had the advantage in the actual campaign. While I think many would agree the Germans could have had a shot at "winning" the Russian campaign, this is where a lot of opinion and conjecture come into play about the German chances of actually winning. They are certainly not 50/50 is my point and the game should reflect that a German strategic win should be fairly far under 50%. A German "historical" win (progress in a game compared to actual campaign) shows the game is probably in favor of the Germans right now, although so few games get played all the way out.




AFV -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/23/2012 10:03:04 PM)

I have come to realize the German AI is at its worst when it thinks it has the advantage strategically (see the numbers at the top while it is making its move), but locally it does not. It will refuse to retreat (I assume because it has calculated it has the advantage), regardless of the situation. Especially in situations where it could use the "move one hex rule" and have units escape (at least, delay death a turn). After you kill a slew of units, then its calculation shows it has a clear disadvantage- and it suddenly starts playing better (not great mind you but better).

With that said, I think the AI is pretty good, and whoever programmed it is a genius (Gary, whoever). Remember, this is not something that millions of dollars were spent developing- its an $80 game.

Oh and to address your game issues: I have seen the same behavior in the AI- building an impenetrable fortress of units up north but leaving the south scarcely defended (which needs more, not less). Plus you spent half the game kicking its ass at Normal, so it was already weakened more than it really should have been- and you were stronger than you should have been (less manpower centers/armaments/casualties taken than if you had set everything on AI 110% and you 100% (or you 90%).




Grungar -> RE: Germans AI rolled up in 56 turns by a novice is this normal? (9/25/2012 3:58:17 AM)

Thanks for the replies everyone. As for what AVF said...i only kicked its ass during the winter and summer 42 :D It seemed to play well enough when the ai had a clear strategic goal. Although i saw it waste valuable time wating for its rail heads while i made the upper dnepr erea solid with stuff. In my case it tryed for lenningrad and should have been reasonably situated for the initiative had it not sacrificed what looks like two panzer groups just prior to the mud season when it was playing fine. I started this thread to find out if my result was common and it seems it is. Maybe we should investigate why the ai dispersed its panzers along the center and faild to create more units ie retreat to shorten its front. Maybe Hitler lives on in the German AI? :P




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