TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (Full Version)

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LiquidSky -> TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/18/2012 5:08:13 AM) friend and I really enjoy the idea of Dismissal, and would hate to dismiss it...

The Russians start with a Strategic Position of 5.

The code for Event #19 is for assigning minor orders if a random 25% chance is rolled, and you currently have less then 4 active.

While this is not a 'bug', I would suggest lowering the 25% down to maybe seems that you quickly get up to 4 as they can last a few turns.

But the most serious thing we have noticed, is that the Russians start with having to take Kharkov...a near impossibility in a PBEM game. But thats okay, as they start with enough prestige that they can try and fail, or avoid the attempt. However, the Soviets will remain at Strategic Position 5 until they lose one of Rostov, Millerowo, Voronezh, Stalingrad or Krasnadar.

Which means, in the event #19 code for issuing new Minor orders, they will always get an offensive one.

Now against the computer AI, perhaps the Russian player can take enough of them to keep from losing the game, but against a human Axis player, who will get more and more reinforcements, and can pull units off the lines where the front is quieter, will probably not lose very many cities.

I would suggest a couple of could add Izium to the list for Soviets changing Strategic Position, since they pretty much figured they were 'on the defensive' after losing 250k troops in the pocket formed by the Germans meeting at Izium.

Or you could avoid giving either side minor orders until July 1, and instead just let them have the Major's (Sevastopol, Kerch, Kharkov). That way they can use the month of May to fight for the Majors, and then the next month building for Case Blue. They could still use 'Ambition' cards if they want to be offensive.

I would also suggest to make the Ambition card cheaper..maybe even 1 point to start..for a PBEM game at least.

LiquidSky -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/18/2012 8:50:37 PM)

I ran through a bunch of turns on the TrappenJagd as a test. I noticed a couple of things. After failing to take Kharkov, and losing the prestige...the russians get a Major Order to take Kharkov for 16pp. Definetly going to be a harsh minus on the prestige, even if the Russians manage to take a couple of minors.

Since prestige cannot drop below 0, the Russians can play Ambition on the last turn of dismissal to buy themselves 3 more turns after the next objective is failed. If they are lucky, a few of them will fail during this time, but if they are spread out, the increasing value of the card will make it harder and harder to stave off dismissal. Basically, the Russians are trying to buy time for the Germans to take Millerowo (or Voronehz) so they can start getting objectives they might be able to hang on to.

Another suggestion to help fix/mediate this, is to just give the Russians a large amount of prestige to start with...say 50. Since they are going to have a rather disasterous May/June.

Vic -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/19/2012 1:38:30 PM)

Thanks for the feedback Liquid. Some extra prestige for Trappenjagd might indeed be a good idea.
Either that or putting the Soviets to defensive strategic position after failing to take Kharkov.


wallas -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/19/2012 4:12:01 PM)

I am liquid's opponent and real life friend. We chat about the game as we go along on ventrillo, and we are going to try this again. I am going to horde Russian PP and use them only to prevent dismissal. If I save them like mad and play no reinforcement cards , fortification, leader appointments, army re organisation, etc throughout the summer, I might just survive being shot. Then we will see where I am in september !

LiquidSky -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/19/2012 5:27:59 PM)

Event Code #19 New Minor Order (both sides)

Line 66)

CHECK: CheckRandomPercent > 25

The Comment above it says a 25% check. Wouldnt this line be checking for a 75% chance as a random 1-100 would be greater 75% of the time?

I am going to change it to

CHECK: CheckRandomPercent > 75 and see if that gives a less minor orders.

Haudrauf1962 -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/19/2012 5:59:36 PM)

i also think the Russians should be on the defensive after loosing Izium. The offensive stance is a total illusion after getting beaten while trying to take Kharkov

LiquidSky -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/19/2012 6:32:26 PM)


If the check add 9999 to TempVar3 which is the current number of minor orders active...

Later on you check to see if the number of minor orders exceeds 4 (which it will if you succeed the 75% check)

So it is correct. However, since I want to reduce the number of minor orders that Herr Hynkel/Marshal Salmon spit out, I am going to change it to 10.

LiquidSky -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/19/2012 6:52:13 PM)

Event 15) Adjust Strategic Position (Soviets)

I like the failure to capture Kharkov, however, looking at the event code, it seems easier to me just to add Izium to the list of checks. If Izium is Axis then I will make TempVar0 += 1

Which gets transferred to TempVar151..then used in the check to see if Soviets will go defensive. The fall of Izium will not be an instant trigger, as it looks like there is a random element as well as VP loss to consider.

Blond_Knight -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/19/2012 7:50:27 PM)

This is fascinating to follow. I havent made any changes myself yet but Im reading the scenario specific scripts(after line 300) and trying to understand whats going on.

wallas -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/19/2012 8:11:56 PM)

Essentially what has happened is it is June 3 1942 and I the soviets have been given about 10 minor orders to capture towns from the germans. They of course are not realistic objectives that the russians can accomplish. this has cost me to lose so far around 22 Prestige. I have also been given two major orders to take Kharkov twice which has cost me 25 prestige. So atm I am 47 prestige in the hole, and the soviets start this scenario with 15. If your at 5 prestige and lose 15 you only go to zero, and have 3 turns to get positive on prestige. My only way out from being shot is waiting till the third turn of delay and playing the card that gives me 1 PP. This card(ambition) gets more expensive every time you play it, and also will cause more prestige loss due to not completing the assigned objective. You will need a HUGE reserve of PP to prevent being shot throught the spring/summer. Come the fall when your back to defensive posture by losing one of the 3 major russian cities hopefully you have had enough PP to prevent being shot. The only other option would be to take Kharkov but you would need to strip the front clean and pile all your assests in front of Kharkov and go Banzia and cross your fingers you can take and hold it well into the summer. Of course you would lose the rest of russia by the fall.

my analysis anyways.

LiquidSky -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/19/2012 10:54:20 PM)

Okay..we are going to start a new game. I made the following changes:

If Izium is German held, Soviet Strategic Position can change to defensive.
I changed the odds of a Position change to defensive from 22 to 25%. For those curious, your current turns VP's have to be at least 4 greater/lesser then the average over the last 5 (or less) turns. I changed the odds from 46% to 50% for it to go up offensively. These percentages are just easier to think in my head. (1 in 4, or 50-50)

I changed the odds of receiving a new Minor order from 25% to 10%. So there should only be one or two active at a time. I lowered the cost of Ambition to 2 from 5, although that only gives you a couple more plays before it gets too expensive. I may make the percentage dependent on the number of minors already active....say 33% when you have none to 10% when you have 3. Or for simple math.... 40% - (number of active minors) x 10%

I made it impossible to receive a Soviet Major mission while the Strategic Position = 5 (Trappenjagd starts at 5, and when it is 4, the Russians are on the defensive)
So no more Simerfopol while being attacked at Sevastopol..or Kharkov after failing to take it the first time.

I left the Prestige at 15 for the Russians and 10 for the Germans.

I also added Giant Death Robots for the Germans.....[X(]

Okay...just kidding on the last one....

Vic -> RE: TrappenJagd Minor Orders: Soviet (9/24/2012 8:21:18 PM)


I made it impossible to receive a Soviet Major mission while the Strategic Position = 5 (Trappenjagd starts at 5, and when it is 4, the Russians are on the defensive)
So no more Simerfopol while being attacked at Sevastopol..or Kharkov after failing to take it the first time.

Thats an interesting idea. I'll consider it for v1.04. Also let me know how it plays out with your other modified settings.


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