Night bombing status update? (Full Version)

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Chickenboy -> Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 7:18:47 PM)

Hi all,

I'm starting a new PBEM against my most honorable opponent AW1Steve. We're pretty clear on most issues with the game, thankfully they've largely been identified and HRs (or code fixes) have taken care of the vast majority of them.

Moving forward, we were going to allow night bombing by 'small' groups only until 1944. I know there are some players that have additional restrictions / HRs regarding night bombing.

Here's my questions:

1. Is night bombing as much an issue under the latest official patch as it had been in the past or is it a non-issue now?

2. Do other players have HRs that they recommend? If so, why?

3. Are night fighters able to effectively intercept now?

4. Have night bomber uber-accuracy issues / low ops losses been corrected now?

Thanks in advance for the input. This forum is always very helpful for navigating these waters. [&o]




Nikademus -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 7:37:29 PM)

1) Yes*

2) Some do. Some don't

3) Depends

4) No**

* Putting up a night CAP, even one that doesn't actually fire on a bomber group will reduce the # and frequency of hits. However this diminishes in effectiveness as bomber exp and numbers increase.

** issues involving game mechanics being "off" aka 'Uber' ; 'Under' 50 shades of Grey are not being addressed at this time. Bugs only.





AW1Steve -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 7:44:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

1) Yes*

2) Some do. Some don't

3) Depends

4) No**

* Putting up a night CAP, even one that doesn't actually fire on a bomber group will reduce the # and frequency of hits. However this diminishes in effectiveness as bomber exp and numbers increase.

** issues involving game mechanics being "off" aka 'Uber' ; 'Under' 50 shades of Grey are not being addressed at this time. Bugs only.




OK, ,what HR's would YOU use? Thanks in advance. [:)]




Puhis -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 7:59:29 PM)

I'm using HR that only one bomber group per base can fly night bombing missions. With this rule night bombing have been harassment raids only. Both players are occasionally using night bombing, but results have been rather poor. For example couple planes destroyed now and then, nothing serious. Sound pretty realistic to me. We are now playing May 1943.




Nikademus -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 8:05:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

OK, ,what HR's would YOU use? Thanks in advance. [:)]


In Joe and mine's last game the simple rule was "no night bombing until 1944"





Chickenboy -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 8:22:30 PM)

Thanks for your responses, guys. Please keep 'em coming.

I'd like to solicit thoughts from PBEM players that have had NO HRs on this matter and what their thoughts were on that too.




AW1Steve -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 8:27:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

OK, ,what HR's would YOU use? Thanks in advance. [:)]


In Joe and mine's last game the simple rule was "no night bombing until 1944"





I'm curious...why did you pick 1944? Why not 45 or 43? [&:]




Nikademus -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 8:49:04 PM)

1944 corresponds with the year the Marianas were taken allowing the US to implement a serious case of non-Precision city bombing. :)

At that point, the mechanics of the system are moot when you have lots of B-29's coming onto the scene. If they're in range of the Home Islands.....kiss your Sentra goodbye. day or night.




aaffins -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 8:56:46 PM)

There has been a lot night bombing going both ways in my current PBEM (Aug '42, I am Japan) and for the most part I think results have been reasonable. The only times I have been seriously hurt is when my opponent launches 50+ bombers and I have the airfield overstacked.

As a previous poster mentioned, night interceptors are almost completely useless for shooting down bombers, however they are effective at chasing off the bombers and disrupting the raids.

The one thing I have noticed that seems ridiculous is that intercepting B-17s at night is deadly for fighters. A recent attempted intercept of a couple squadrons of B-17s resulted in 10 of my frontline fighters being shot down and not recording any kills. Since then I have just been using garbage Oscar squadrons as night fighters.




dr.hal -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 9:15:21 PM)

50 shades of Grey


By that book gets around!!!!!




obvert -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 9:19:06 PM)

In my game we've both tried it a bit. I was worried because against Dan Nichols in my first PBEM he nailed Palembang early with crap Dutch bombers and took out 1/4 of the oil. In the most recent official patch I feel like only a few raids have destroyed more than 5 planes and when Jocke tried it occasionally against Magwe oil it was fairly ineffective.

I'd still put in an HR. We're using no night bombing at less than 50% moonlight.




Nikademus -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 9:19:07 PM)

indeed. I'll never read em. But i got a ton of laughs out of reading the reviews. If i'd known it was that easy to make the NY Times best seller list i'd have submitted one long ago. "50 shades of Mares" Has all the ingredients needed for a good clean read. Saddle......whips, leather, bridle.....bit......spurs.

"Holy Crap! I got bucked off again!"
"Holy S*it! That mare has a mean look in her eye"
"OMG! Where's the brakes???!!!!!"




zuluhour -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 9:38:03 PM)

I get night bombed every time the moon rises (50%) however the results are marginal at best. The raiders never arrive over the target as one packet. Any CAP at all and they are further degraded. Usual result from say 24 Bettys arriving in three strikes. One downed Betty (with CAP) and 1 airfield hit.




AW1Steve -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 9:42:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

1944 corresponds with the year the Marianas were taken allowing the US to implement a serious case of non-Precision city bombing. :)

At that point, the mechanics of the system are moot when you have lots of B-29's coming onto the scene. If they're in range of the Home Islands.....kiss your Sentra goodbye. day or night.




So the consensus is to base the rule on history vice capability? In other words night bombing is still flawed, but after 1944 it doesn't matter so who cares? [&:]




Nikademus -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 9:55:00 PM)

No.

Joe and I agreed on this rule because night bombing was too uber in our games. However we both agreed that Night bombing/city bombing was a big part of the latter campaign of the Pacific. It was the reason why the Marianas were a critical target. To allow a comprehensive city campaign (day or night) on the HI's. Not allowing Player 2 in particular to be able to use its swath of 4E groups to bomb in such fashion late in the war was not reasonable.






AW1Steve -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 9:57:35 PM)

Does this "flaw" help one side more than the other? [&:]




Chickenboy -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 10:22:26 PM)

Remind me when the Allies start getting loads of B-29s? Not the "Chinese sprinkling", but the deluge of Marianas-based B-29s?




Chickenboy -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 10:26:03 PM)

Also, is there consensus that there is a different modeling efficacy in the 'strategic' versus the 'tactical' night time bombing in the game? It seems that there is less resistance to large scale firebombing (strategic city bombing) as modelled in the game and maybe more trepidation in the way the game handles large scale tactical strikes (e.g., airfields, ports, etc.)? Is this a fair assessment of consensus?




AW1Steve -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 10:33:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Remind me when the Allies start getting loads of B-29s? Not the "Chinese sprinkling", but the deluge of Marianas-based B-29s?

And that matters how? B-24's can't do night strategic bombing? Or Wellingtons? [&:]




CV 2 -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 10:53:34 PM)

2 Rules I have used in the past:

1) No more than 1 Squadron per target (except as noted on Japan).

2) The "target" may be only the manpower in the hex. In other words no airfield, port, ground, ect.




Schanilec -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 11:10:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

50 shades of Grey


By that book gets around!!!!!


Bombie porn.[:'(]




Nikademus -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 11:30:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Does this "flaw" help one side more than the other? [&:]


helps both sides. So we axed it for both sides in the manner described




crsutton -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/17/2012 11:57:57 PM)

Ark and I worked up a good soution. One unit per night, per theater on night bombing missions. No more. No more than two or three units on night naval attack. Per theater means four theaters in the map. So only four units possible on any one night.

This works fine. Keeps a little flava in the game but does not get out of hand. We however have not worked out a solution for the late B29s which have no defensive armament but carry about a million bombs.... We will have to talk than one out when the time comes.




Chickenboy -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/18/2012 12:38:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Remind me when the Allies start getting loads of B-29s? Not the "Chinese sprinkling", but the deluge of Marianas-based B-29s?

And that matters how? B-24's can't do night strategic bombing? Or Wellingtons? [&:]


Relax. It's a question about deployment numbers. I don't remember and didn't feel like doing research at the time to remind myself. I've got nothing against all manner of heavy bombers doing strategic bombing.




ny59giants -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/18/2012 1:53:56 AM)

CB - How 'bout those Cowboys!! [sm=fighting0056.gif][sm=fighting0056.gif]




Chickenboy -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/18/2012 5:28:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

CB - How 'bout those Cowboys!! [sm=fighting0056.gif][sm=fighting0056.gif]

Good to see that you finally won a game, NYG! Eli barely squeaked one out for you against an inferior opponent, I see. I guess we'll have to see how the balance of the season plays out, won't we?




Miller -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/18/2012 11:43:42 AM)

The results of night bombing are not a problem imo, however the fact the Allied bombers shoot down any night fighters at a rate of 5:1 is...........




Puhis -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/18/2012 11:51:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

The results of night bombing are not a problem imo, however the fact the Allied bombers shoot down any night fighters at a rate of 5:1 is...........


This borkness alone is good reason to limit night bombing. Also IMO night bombing results are borked too. But it's better with the latest patch.




Nikademus -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/18/2012 4:14:37 PM)

Neeght bumbeeng is burked. Thuse-a pesky Bee-a Sefenteens shuut doon ell my feeghters



[image]local://upfiles/452/4AAE31B01106444E9EF02B089773FBE2.jpg[/image]




Schanilec -> RE: Night bombing status update? (9/18/2012 4:17:53 PM)

[:D]




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