RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (Full Version)

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Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/2/2012 8:55:10 PM)

Strategically, I was given no choice but to attack out of Tottori. I then had no choice but to fight for the supply line. When you guys get better at strategy you will be able to see my priorities as I see all of yours. Once I was committed to attacking Ironduke, it made sense that Lazy should as well. One of your bigest errors is attacking in too many places, leaving all of the attacks too weak to be dangerous.
If you are going to go on defense, you still must have a mobile strike group, otherwise you have to just sit there and take it, and that sucks.
i think both of you guys could become really good players once you start to dream bigger and commiting everyting to accomplishing your vision.
You certainly have shown resolve and tenacity.
Meanie




kombrig -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/2/2012 9:12:25 PM)

Before I noticed that you have posted a message, I managed to edit my message.

This game result was all about Iron's bad luck when choosing tactics. The game ended too early in order to see, who had better strategy. It was no surprise to me that you both will be attacking Iron.




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/2/2012 9:47:58 PM)

The point I was trying ineptly to make, is that successful attacks must go to certain places.
It is not enough just to concentrate tanks and cav and attack here because it is convenient.
The attack must always be directed by a thorough and careful examination of all players road/rail, resources and city distribution, with the eye always upon grand strategy.
That being said, I can usually predict my enemy sherpunkt with acceptable accuracy, and take cost effective counter measures early.
That would have been to no avail this game if you had notice my vulnerablity.
It would have been an unmitigated disaster for me if you guys had rushed Tottori.
Another thought, you could have produced an army right into Ironduke's threatened areas.
We have done this before and it is effective.
Meanie.




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/2/2012 10:31:02 PM)

How about it Iron, you and Lazy v me and Kombrig?
Lazyboy is one of only two players in the world who beat me in a one on one.




ironduke1955 -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/2/2012 10:51:54 PM)

I would be happy to play again. My idea was to await the rush from Lazy it was not difficult to predict where this would be, quickly building fortifications and digging in infantry AT and HA, Doing so quickly enough so that entrenchment values would reach 140 or higher. The HA would take out the soft targets as they started to do and the light tanks would blunt themselves trying to take out Urban/City and fortified area's, this I caculated is what would happen in the real world. Lazy would need to take out the fortified points with Art and air attacks. Assets he did not possess in sufficient quantities in these area's I had switched to Medium tank production and would start to mop up what was left. That was the theory it has a couple of holes (Don't point them out I am aware of them) just typing it makes me aware of them. But for better or worse that was it. If only the Germans had known that to take Stalingrad all they needed to do was to drive up to the city with light tanks and honk there horns. And the Soviets would have fled the city throwing themselves in the Volga[:D]




LazyBoy -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/2/2012 11:35:08 PM)

I find the combat system has way too much random luck in it.
The different results you can get from one combat are stagering.
It is in my mind the single biggest problem in what is one of the best stratgy games around
In real life generals had a pretty good idea how a battle would pan out, they "mostly" didnt just chuck their troops in and hope.
In this game you have very little idea how it is going to go.

The xlarge map does defuse the combat system some what because each battle has a smaller impact on the game

A number of units I feel are over powered.
Cavalry can attack infantry in terrain totally unsuited to them and have a major combat advantage, i.e fortifcations, forests and cities

I think resources are far more important than most peaple.
Every oil or raw you take is worth double it value, minus the value for the loser and + for the victor.

Taking easy resources whitles down a players production and mechanised movement and soon forces him into decisions he would not have to make if he still had them.




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/2/2012 11:42:47 PM)

Lol, hindsight is 20/20, if only they had known.
Might actually have happened if they hadn't turned back and gone for the oilfields, when they got back to Stalingrad it was too late.
:-)
I will start a game tonight with the teams mentioned. I will use the same drop box we used last game.
I will invite Kombrig to new team dropbox.
good luck have fun.

Meanie.




LazyBoy -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/2/2012 11:55:27 PM)

Please clear the old games out of the dropbox ( when no longer needed )




kombrig -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/3/2012 6:40:40 AM)

ORIGINAL: Meanfcker

quote:

The point I was trying ineptly to make, is that successful attacks must go to certain places.
It is not enough just to concentrate tanks and cav and attack here because it is convenient.
The attack must always be directed by a thorough and careful examination of all players road/rail, resources and city distribution, with the eye always upon grand strategy.
That being said, I can usually predict my enemy sherpunkt with acceptable accuracy, and take cost effective counter measures early.
That would have been to no avail this game if you had notice my vulnerablity.
It would have been an unmitigated disaster for me if you guys had rushed Tottori.
Another thought, you could have produced an army right into Ironduke's threatened areas.
We have done this before and it is effective.
Meanie.


If you didn't guess our strategic plan this does not mean that there was no plan.[;)]

Our schwerpunkt was north of Lazy's capital. My tank and cavalry army supported with AT and flak and air assets was advancing through the desert in order to cut Lazy's capital area with a lot of resources. The capital area had just one railroad connecting it with the rest of his empire. At the same time I was advancing also south of the capital (the railroad in the jungle) and was planning to flank the capital area also from the south. Lazy concentrated his attack power against Iron's centre. When he noticed my schwerpunkt he started to concentrate there and inevitably his effort against Iron would have weakened. All the offensives against you were simply a distraction (I actually disbanded the trains in my capital on turn 1 in order to get extra raw to build up this kind of distractions). Most of the front against you had good defense terrain. Even if you would have had success there, it would have taken a lot of time. But at the same time Lazy would have been under the direct pressure of two players, whereas his terrain was not especially good for defense. Sorry - but strategically I didn't see any bright future for your team.[:)]

Iron actually produced an army into his threatened areas but the army composition turned up faulty - instead of dive bombers and tanks he hoped at first to rely on fortified cities and heavy arty. By the end of turn 4 Iron produced only a couple of tanks SFTs and no planes.

Concentrating on Tottori would not have been good strategy in my opinion because the cost of success there would have been giving free hands to Lazy against Iron's centre. But Iron's centre was extremely vulnerable - good tank terrain. When we would have captured from you one city plus 5-6 raw, Iron would have probably lost at the same time 4-5 border zone cities plus a couple of raw in the centre. Hardly the Tottori operation would have been worth it.





LazyBoy -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/4/2012 6:37:55 AM)

I will have to opt out of the new game, sorry.
The new hours are causing havock with my sleep and I dont think I will be able to give the game the attention it needs.
Sorry




kombrig -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/4/2012 7:13:55 AM)

That's bad news.




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/4/2012 10:50:32 AM)

Lets see if we can get someone that we know is dependable for the fourth player.




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/9/2012 1:37:32 PM)

Kombrig, I noticed that CarlVon and Ironduke just won a 2v2.
If we can get them interested, would you care to take them on with humble little meanie on your team?




kombrig -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/10/2012 12:45:05 PM)

I'm ready.




Webizen -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/10/2012 1:23:00 PM)

Side Note: I eventually need to get in on a game where I'm on the team with Mean and/or CarlVon so I can learn this "mean" system first hand. I suppose it isn't really that difficult: 1) conduct a critical analysis of the map (city location, resource location, rail net and terrain), 2) decide on major attack zone and 3) concentrate combat power and execute plan. Lastly, remain flexible and adjust as necessary. That said, I'm certain there are some finer details to learn regarding force composition and HQ use (morale/experience, etc). It is obvious from my experience facing you guys that powerful armor/cavalry units are a certainty and that they strike early.

Re cavalry: I too think it is over powered, especially in terrain that isn't ideal for cavalry. I've mentioned this to Vic a while back but he doesn't seem to agree with me.

By the way, Vic has indicated that v2.12 beta patch will likely be released early this week with some kind of officer system added.




ironduke1955 -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/10/2012 5:36:12 PM)

Sounds good Mean Web V Kombrig Iron look forward to my first turn

Unless we are talking about a 3 V 3




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/11/2012 12:20:21 AM)

Ok sounds cool. I have been meaning to enquire whether Web would be interested in something like this.
Mean and Web V Kom and Iron
I will keep it down to x-large so the turns will come around a little quicker.
Full nations, no shroud, no oceans, map loop, and full range climate.
I will try to get it started tonight but it will probably be tomorrow before I send to Web.
I probably have all your emails, but just in case, could you all email me at pas.x@hotmail.com?
I will invite you all to game dropbox and I will invite Web to team dropbox.
Good luck and have fun.
Meanfcker.




Webizen -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/11/2012 1:00:46 AM)

Vic has stated elsewhere that he expects his ATG v2.12 beta patch to get released early this week. Didn't happen today but lets see if it gets released tomorrow or Wednesday before we start this game.




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/11/2012 2:02:08 AM)

Np, it gives me time to try to catch up on two other games I have going.




Webizen -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/11/2012 3:42:17 PM)

The ATG v2.12 beta patch has been posted! Everyone involved in this game should install. As Vic has confirmed on previous occasions, the patch will not affect any games you currently have in progress. For this game, lets use the "New Dawn" module with officers so we can also provide Vic feedback on this new feature. Besides, it should add an interesting twist to the game.




ironduke1955 -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/11/2012 8:44:07 PM)

I have downloaded v2.12




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/12/2012 2:15:03 AM)

I have downloaded it as well. I wish to poke around inside a little bit.
I will start game tomorrow night. I have a great map generated. I will post it in game folder later tonight, I hope, or tomorrow night for sure.




ironduke1955 -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/15/2012 10:42:52 PM)

Hey Mean any chance of a look at the map.[:)]

Nice map who is who just so plans can be made [;)]




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/17/2012 3:29:05 AM)

I apologize for the delay. I took a couple of days to play with the new patch and then our big 3v3 rematch came in, and I have a wife and a job.
Now that I have started, I am trying to make sense of this map and come up with a plan. I am well into my turn now and should have it sent to Web tomorrow(Monday)night. I have marked the player positions on the map(don't know why I didn't think of that!) and yes it is a good map. No obvious weakspots.
Meanie.




ironduke1955 -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/17/2012 3:43:21 AM)

Kombrig just need to open a channel for your plans/ideas tmain98560@aol.com just to let you know if you come up with a winning plan I will totally claim it was my idea[:D]




kombrig -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/17/2012 4:11:17 PM)

Nice interesting map. I have time for plans tomorrow. Can't guarantee though that it's a winning plan. If we loose I will claim that it was your plan ironduke.[;)]




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/18/2012 3:13:01 AM)

Web's turn is in the box.
Man those new HQs are pricey. Sure hope they are worth it.




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/18/2012 3:14:16 AM)

Webizen's turn is in the box.
Man, those fancy new HQs are pricey. I sure hope that they turn out to be worh it.
Meanie.




Meanfcker -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (12/23/2012 11:14:15 PM)

Web's turn again.




ironduke1955 -> RE: 2 v 2 [In progress] (1/24/2013 5:01:25 PM)

Have we lost Web ?




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