Babes Update Question (Closed) (Full Version)

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US87891 -> Babes Update Question (Closed) (8/19/2012 5:44:58 PM)

I wonder something. There is a extension to the extended map that we use for our Guadalcanal and operation SF scenarios and everything else too by default. It breaks out the Shortlands from Bougainville proper and moves the Shortlands base to a new place, and renames the old Shortlands to Buin. Shortlands is mostly port 2(3) and little air 1(0) while Buin is mostly air 1(3) and little port 1(0) and they belong to different commands.

I wonder if people would want the extended-extended map included in the next update? It looks like this..


[image]local://upfiles/37114/5837D1D1112943F79BCE2FE1F5A7B588.jpg[/image]




Buck Beach -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/19/2012 6:36:32 PM)

I vote yes.

Buck




Carny -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/19/2012 8:14:24 PM)

Seconded.




Mac Linehan -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/19/2012 8:38:04 PM)

Is the Pope Catholic?

Is a four pound Robin fat?

Would I take whatever the Babes Team is willing to share?

I am with Buck and Carny - Yes! (Please)

The map sample is awesome!

Babes Forever...

Mac




witpqs -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/19/2012 9:06:00 PM)

Sure - to clarify, if I understand correctly that would be an updated extended map that pertains to the full campaign as well, yes?




mikkey -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 12:25:57 AM)

+1 for extended-extended Guadalcanal map




MateDow -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 12:52:58 AM)

I am gathering that, because the question is being asked, there are disadvantages to this modification. What are those?

Personally, I like the added detail and think that it is good.




Kitakami -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 1:28:00 AM)

I would definitely love it. It is details like those that make DaBabes what it is :)




treespider -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 2:12:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MateDow

I am gathering that, because the question is being asked, there are disadvantages to this modification. What are those?

Personally, I like the added detail and think that it is good.



Keep in mind this would only apply to newly started games...it cannot be applied to a game in progress.




SuluSea -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 1:02:29 PM)

Definately a yes here!!




Puhis -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 1:14:02 PM)

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?




Gary Childress -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 2:02:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?


It looks like it would bring Lunga within 7 hexes instead of 8 hexes of the Shortlands. Depending if the Japanese player were to develop an airfield on Shortlands capable of operating fighters, then Lunga just barely comes within the normal radius of the A6M2 (7 hexes). It maybe won't have too much effect on Allied fighters because the normal radius of most versions of the Wildcat and P-40 still fall short of 7 hexes.




US87891 -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 4:06:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: MateDow

I am gathering that, because the question is being asked, there are disadvantages to this modification. What are those?

Personally, I like the added detail and think that it is good.



Keep in mind this would only apply to newly started games...it cannot be applied to a game in progress.

Yes. What treespider said. Even when started new, the disadvantage is full AI like BabesLite won’t recognize the new Shortlands base. The new Buin is in the old Shortlands slot, and AI will recognize Buin. All the big ticket troop and plane items were at Buin in any case. It is a minor issue but still an issue.

It won't show up on Tracker either.




US87891 -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 4:17:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?

I hope not. If I read the map right, Henderson International is at Lat -9.430S : Long 160.0519.
HF to Ballale (Lat -6.986S : Lon 155.8984) is 531.8 km (287.2 nm)
HF to Poporang (Lat -7.097S : Lon 155.8757) is 527.7 km (284.9 nm)
HF to Buin (Kahili/Kara) (Lat -6.747S : Lon 155.6883) is 564.4 km (304.8 nm)
On the old map Buin/Shortlands to Lunga is 8 hexes (320 nm)
New map Buin to Lunga is still 8 hexes but new Shortlands to Lunga is 7 hexes (280 nm)

Fiddled with the new Shortlands base to make it lousy for AFs. All that was there was the seaplane base at Shortland Harbor on Poporang Is and eventually a 1500’ strip on Ballale Is. Buin base had the AFs (Kahili and Kara). Shortlands starts at AF 1(0) Buin starts at AF 1(3) and both are 80% damaged. It's like somebody cut the grass, but they need work to get them going.
The main AFs at Lunga and Buin are the same distance apart. The only benefit is to Petes and Mavis's [;)]




Herrbear -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 4:18:50 PM)

Yes




Puhis -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 4:30:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?

I hope not. If I read the map right, Henderson International is at Lat -9.430S : Long 160.0519.
HF to Ballale (Lat -6.986S : Lon 155.8984) is 531.8 km (287.2 nm)
HF to Poporang (Lat -7.097S : Lon 155.8757) is 527.7 km (284.9 nm)
HF to Buin (Kahili/Kara) (Lat -6.747S : Lon 155.6883) is 564.4 km (304.8 nm)
On the old map Buin/Shortlands to Lunga is 8 hexes (320 nm)
New map Buin to Lunga is still 8 hexes but new Shortlands to Lunga is 7 hexes (280 nm)

Fiddled with the new Shortlands base to make it lousy for AFs. All that was there was the seaplane base at Shortland Harbor on Poporang Is and eventually a 1500’ strip on Ballale Is. Buin base had the AFs (Kahili and Kara). Shortlands starts at AF 1(0) Buin starts at AF 1(3) and both are 80% damaged. It's like somebody cut the grass, but they need work to get them going.
The main AFs at Lunga and Buin are the same distance apart. The only benefit is to Petes and Mavis's [;)]



7 hexes is normal range of Dauntless DBs. Did Dauntless had the range to bomb Shortlands' naval base?




US87891 -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 4:53:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?

I hope not. If I read the map right, Henderson International is at Lat -9.430S : Long 160.0519.
HF to Ballale (Lat -6.986S : Lon 155.8984) is 531.8 km (287.2 nm)
HF to Poporang (Lat -7.097S : Lon 155.8757) is 527.7 km (284.9 nm)
HF to Buin (Kahili/Kara) (Lat -6.747S : Lon 155.6883) is 564.4 km (304.8 nm)
On the old map Buin/Shortlands to Lunga is 8 hexes (320 nm)
New map Buin to Lunga is still 8 hexes but new Shortlands to Lunga is 7 hexes (280 nm)

Fiddled with the new Shortlands base to make it lousy for AFs. All that was there was the seaplane base at Shortland Harbor on Poporang Is and eventually a 1500’ strip on Ballale Is. Buin base had the AFs (Kahili and Kara). Shortlands starts at AF 1(0) Buin starts at AF 1(3) and both are 80% damaged. It's like somebody cut the grass, but they need work to get them going.
The main AFs at Lunga and Buin are the same distance apart. The only benefit is to Petes and Mavis's [;)]



7 hexes is normal range of Dauntless DBs. Did Dauntless had the range to bomb Shortlands' naval base?

I honestly don't know but Henderson International is on the site of Henderson Field and the Lat/Lon of Poporang is smack in the middle of Shortland Harbor. So if a Dauntless can go 280 nm, it seems logical it can go 285 nm, yes? There wasn't much of a naval bse there but it did have flak. Just don't know.

Isn't normal range of SBD 9?




oldman45 -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 4:54:39 PM)

yes for me




witpqs -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 5:39:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

It won't show up on Tracker either.

It should show up on Tracker just fine. Simple to add the base to a regions-definition file for Tacker too.

Tracker just reads in what is in the save file. Not sure if it reads the scenario file the first time but I think it does not. The point is that Tracker does not contain its own list of bases, if you add them it will pick them up.

All the additional bases that have already been added in Babes came up on Tracker just fine without any Tracker updates (getting the regions updated is optional so won't stop Tracker from working).




US87891 -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 6:48:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

It won't show up on Tracker either.

It should show up on Tracker just fine. Simple to add the base to a regions-definition file for Tacker too.

Tracker just reads in what is in the save file. Not sure if it reads the scenario file the first time but I think it does not. The point is that Tracker does not contain its own list of bases, if you add them it will pick them up.

All the additional bases that have already been added in Babes came up on Tracker just fine without any Tracker updates (getting the regions updated is optional so won't stop Tracker from working).

Thank you. That's good to know. We don't use Tracker much so don't know a lot about it. Sorry Tracker people [:'(]

If Mr Catbus is satisfied, then the new Solomons go in as new panel 024. A good time to do it since JWE did a extensive update on size and terrain for all the islands in the Pacific and it makes sense to lump everything together.

I recall him spending time with a Navy oceanographer last year. Here's John's changelog from October. It is a .doc file but remaned .txt to post. Take it but rename to .doc before you open it. Opening as .txt will not work.

Regards, Matt





Puhis -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 6:52:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

It won't show up on Tracker either.

It should show up on Tracker just fine. Simple to add the base to a regions-definition file for Tacker too.

Tracker just reads in what is in the save file. Not sure if it reads the scenario file the first time but I think it does not. The point is that Tracker does not contain its own list of bases, if you add them it will pick them up.

All the additional bases that have already been added in Babes came up on Tracker just fine without any Tracker updates (getting the regions updated is optional so won't stop Tracker from working).

Thank you. That's good to know. We don't use Tracker much so don't know a lot about it. Sorry Tracker people [:'(]

If Mr Catbus is satisfied, then the new Solomons go in as new panel 024. A good time to do it since JWE did a extensive update on size and terrain for all the islands in the Pacific and it makes sense to lump everything together.



Well, I do think that separating Buin and Shortlands make lot of sense. I just had some minor concerns, but it's not a big deal... [;)]

Next game I'm going to use extended map anyway.





Gary Childress -> RE: Babes Update Question (8/20/2012 8:56:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

It looks good, but I have a small doubt. Shortlands is now one hex closer to Guadalcanal. Does it affect air war?

I hope not. If I read the map right, Henderson International is at Lat -9.430S : Long 160.0519.
HF to Ballale (Lat -6.986S : Lon 155.8984) is 531.8 km (287.2 nm)
HF to Poporang (Lat -7.097S : Lon 155.8757) is 527.7 km (284.9 nm)
HF to Buin (Kahili/Kara) (Lat -6.747S : Lon 155.6883) is 564.4 km (304.8 nm)
On the old map Buin/Shortlands to Lunga is 8 hexes (320 nm)
New map Buin to Lunga is still 8 hexes but new Shortlands to Lunga is 7 hexes (280 nm)

Fiddled with the new Shortlands base to make it lousy for AFs. All that was there was the seaplane base at Shortland Harbor on Poporang Is and eventually a 1500’ strip on Ballale Is. Buin base had the AFs (Kahili and Kara). Shortlands starts at AF 1(0) Buin starts at AF 1(3) and both are 80% damaged. It's like somebody cut the grass, but they need work to get them going.
The main AFs at Lunga and Buin are the same distance apart. The only benefit is to Petes and Mavis's [;)]



7 hexes is normal range of Dauntless DBs. Did Dauntless had the range to bomb Shortlands' naval base?

I honestly don't know but Henderson International is on the site of Henderson Field and the Lat/Lon of Poporang is smack in the middle of Shortland Harbor. So if a Dauntless can go 280 nm, it seems logical it can go 285 nm, yes? There wasn't much of a naval bse there but it did have flak. Just don't know.

Isn't normal range of SBD 9?


SBD-3 and SBD-1 are 7 hex, SBD-5 is 9 hex and SBD-6 is 10 hex. SBD-3 would probably be used for the majority of the Guadalcanal scenario. So it would move shortlands within normal range of the SBD-3 from Lunga. I skimmed through some of the action reports here in an effort to find an instance of SBDs attacking the Shortland Islands from Lunga but didn't come up with anything. Saw a few references to B-17 or B-24 raids on shipping in the Shortland area escorted by P-38s and even P-40s (presumably using drop tanks I would think). I'm guessing the raids originated from Lunga, though it didn't say in some of the cases I observed.




US87891 -> RE: Babes Update Question (Closed) (8/20/2012 9:11:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

It won't show up on Tracker either.

It should show up on Tracker just fine. Simple to add the base to a regions-definition file for Tacker too.

Tracker just reads in what is in the save file. Not sure if it reads the scenario file the first time but I think it does not. The point is that Tracker does not contain its own list of bases, if you add them it will pick them up.

All the additional bases that have already been added in Babes came up on Tracker just fine without any Tracker updates (getting the regions updated is optional so won't stop Tracker from working).

Thank you. That's good to know. We don't use Tracker much so don't know a lot about it. Sorry Tracker people [:'(]

If Mr Catbus is satisfied, then the new Solomons go in as new panel 024. A good time to do it since JWE did a extensive update on size and terrain for all the islands in the Pacific and it makes sense to lump everything together.



Well, I do think that separating Buin and Shortlands make lot of sense. I just had some minor concerns, but it's not a big deal... [;)]

Next game I'm going to use extended map anyway.


Mr Catbus seems to think it is okay, and there are no other outstanding issues, so in it goes.

Thank you all for the useful feedback. Update is set. Thread is now closed.

Matt




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