Some love for the Dismissal Rule (Full Version)

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Keunert -> Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/13/2012 3:33:06 PM)

in an ongoing case blue game i opened the turn and first read the reports.
Report one: You lost Millerowo, Prestige -1 (Dismissal)
Report two: You hold Starobelsk, Prestige +1 (no dismissal)

a lot of tension... and the next Stavka order is reached next turn (2 Prestige). The Axis is at the door of that one already and thus is able to knock me out. but most likely they do not now about it.... as long as he is not reading this ;)





sandman2575 -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/13/2012 3:49:57 PM)

+1

I agree, Keunert. This is a novel concept that adds an interesting political dimension to the game.

In my present Grand Campaign as the Germans, I'm finding I usually only meet my objectives -- when I meet them -- on the very last turn or near it. It's tense. High Command for the most part sets pretty unreasonable goals, but hey, to quote from "Indiana Jones"...the Fuehrer is not a patient man, he demands constant reports, an he expects progress!!! Given the fairly casual way in which Hitler dismissed generals, I think it adds a level of realism to have to face "dismissal" in your game if you don't make progress, however unreasonable the demands are.

I also like the "Axis Minor" rules. I like them precisely because they are annoying. In real life, holding a coalition of allies together is *hard*, and I really like that Vic has added this political dimension to the game. In so many games, you can just do whatever the hell you want with subordinate 'partners' like the Romanians. Not here.

And above all -- I love that Vic gives you the flexibility to use these rule variants or not --




rominet -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/13/2012 5:04:50 PM)

+ 1 too

I actually think that this system of prestige points to win (or lose) is excellent for the realism of the simulation at strategic level. In addition, it provides some replayability.




Grotius -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/13/2012 5:09:35 PM)

+1 as well. I have Prestige on, playing as Germany against the Normal AI in the "Case Blue" campaign, and the tension it creates is fantastic. I just achieved a minor objective, and I was *really* pleased. And I'm about to take Voronezh on time. But the other two major objectives -- Rostow and Millerovo -- remain very much in doubt. The AI is fighting hard for both.

This rule is roughly analogous to harsh "death penalties" (such as experience loss) in role-playing games. It makes losing more painful, but it makes winning more sweet.

It's not for everyone, and I too am glad Vic gave us the option to turn it off. Also, I hope he considers adding some intermediate option, such as VP loss per turn or some such. But for me, against the AI, I'm enjoying the existing Dismissal option.




sandman2575 -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/13/2012 5:52:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

+1 as well. I have Prestige on, playing as Germany against the Normal AI in the "Case Blue" campaign, and the tension it creates is fantastic. I just achieved a minor objective, and I was *really* pleased. And I'm about to take Voronezh on time. But the other two major objectives -- Rostow and Millerovo -- remain very much in doubt. The AI is fighting hard for both.



I was only able to capture Voronezh and Millerovo on the last turn before the deadlines. Bad weather can really stall you! And I had to use Army and Corps action cards to have enough oomph to reach and capture Millerovo with XIV Corps on that last turn.

Fortress Rostov is uncrackable. It's now late August in my GC, and I'm only now making steady progress. I diverted almost all of Manstein's 11th Army to the effort, in addition to Raus's 17th and lots of Italian and Hungarian units. By the time I capture it, I'll have missed that deadline by *months*.




LiquidSky -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/13/2012 8:25:38 PM)



In my game, I was so annoyed. I managed to get fight to center of the city, to find it had an HQ and artillery piece guarding it, but with no more AP's to attack with. On the AI turn, he pushed one of my hexes back, but also heavily reinforced the center of the city. Several turns later, I am still adjacent, as it is too tough to take, and there is a rather large number of Soviets to push against as I slowly try to encircle the city. I think that this is going to turn into my Battle for Stalingrad.




sandman2575 -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/13/2012 9:18:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky
I think that this is going to turn into my Battle for Stalingrad.



Exactly. Playing this game, we'll have to revise the official historical record to: "Rostov: The Decisive Battle of the Great Patriotic War"

: )




Grotius -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/14/2012 2:30:14 AM)

Glad to hear I'm not the only having trouble at Rostov! I've gotten within 12 miles as of turn 12 (mid-July), but stalled there. I tried a flanking move to the east, and initially I made nice progress, but a nasty counterattack has pushed me back. The AI has played a very solid game against me in that sector. Loving it!




starbuck310 -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/14/2012 6:54:20 AM)

+1 also for dismissal rule. key part of the game.

Took Rostov early Aug after 11 Army swung east and out flanked the town as well as supporting 1 Pz army drive on Moscow. I played the delay taking the objective card to give me enough time. The key is to start moving 11 Army units before you even capture the Crimea. Once 11 Army breaks out its easy to swing quickly south and start to cut the supply lines to Rostov. You also need to task org your armies. This will give you the speed and extra combat ratio.

Task Org
17 Army just Inf units + Stug and non Mot Engrs and all the Hvy arty. Capture Rostov.
11 Army all 17 army Pz and Mot Divs. Attack towards Stalingrad in support 1 Pz Army then south and west to cut Rostov supply lines.




Grotius -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/14/2012 6:56:04 AM)

If you play the card to request more time, how much time to you get for your 25 PPs? Can you play the card more than once? I'm getting worried.... :)




Flaviusx -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/14/2012 10:32:07 AM)

There's nothing particularly compelling about victory conditions that end a Case Blue scenario a few turns in just because Voronezh falls. This is just dumb. It's not historical or fun, it's anticlimactic.

Done right, the dismissal rule can perhaps promote exciting play, but as things presently stand, weird stuff is happening. Stop the weird stuff, please.





Manu -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/14/2012 1:25:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

If you play the card to request more time, how much time to you get for your 25 PPs? Can you play the card more than once? I'm getting worried.... :)


I have received 4 days more (I don't know if it is aleatory?) and have be able to play this card once.




Grotius -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/14/2012 4:12:53 PM)

Well, Voronezh is a somewhat odd choice given that the German High Command did not give such an order historically, but I still like that some game mechanism is forcing me to push forward hard in the north. Maybe it should have been "crossing the Don" or something.

Manu, do you mean we can play the "extra time" card more than once, or only once?




starbuck310 -> RE: Some love for the Dismissal Rule (8/14/2012 5:04:53 PM)


Historical context is everything. Voronezh may seem absurd to case blue but bear in mind we have to co-ordinate the Northern Flank with AC. It is also accurate for most levels of command to designate geographical objectives. Take city or hill X. Today the modern military would require an affect and a reason why along mission command lines. Political constraints on the military are still imposed and commanders still give constraints and freedoms to their formations. I would argue that we have too much freedom already without formation boundaries and the ability to task org at will across the whole AS. The military will tell you that moving to a new formation causes all sorts of problems. New codes, procedures, supply and radio frequencies etc etc

BTW I dont seek to justify the objective just the context.





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