RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (Full Version)

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bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/13/2012 2:33:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

i don't get it how your 18 TC was able to destroy the german PZ bat? did you play a card?
the german unit most likely couldn't retreat because it had no ap left. but with it's high morale it should have been able to achieve a hold result?

18TC is a turn 1 reinforcement. You can play the card in any city you hold and he happened to be close to it. I was able to cut off his retreat and if you saw the pic i managed to attack from 5 sides which gave me a 150% concentric attack bonus (note that all my guys were from 21A so it was a good bonus) + 37% divisional bonus.
Then had an arty unit nearby i was able to hit with and i threw some airpower at the hex to be extra sure.




olivier34 -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/13/2012 2:36:07 PM)

We see that the axis player has to be very cautious when he runs his mobile forces in the back of the soviets. Should the axis player put his units in a "retreat only if 75% of losses" ? I doubt this will change something to those impressive soviet results. (I will run some test)
The soviet units don't have penaltys at all during the first turn. Only after that. Maybe this is something to change or the axis as to consider that and move his units in a way to avoid soviet counter attacks.
in this game casualties are enormous. Is that because the two player are very agressive ?




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/13/2012 2:47:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

quote:

And what about of the nearly 100 K russian and 20 K german losses in just two days.
At this rate, the Red Army will be gone in a month, needless to make vast encirclements, direct combat should suffice.


I agree, this is the kill ratio from my game after 8 turns (missing the 8th Soviet turn), with replacements/reinforcements included.

[image]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/29878/F593CD3ABDF549FE82440219B4F7BEBD.jpg[/image]


I uploaded Case Blue Extra to the AT Scenario Bank
it has an option to allow 2x replacements for either/both Germany & Soviet Union. Along with '44 Infantry Division TOE for germany. Today i'm hoping to finish adding some new TOE's for the soviets to morph their units into. As well as working on making mountain divisions actually have the proper NATO icon as well as actually fight in the mountains better. Currently mountain troops are just inf rgt with better morale/better xp.




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/13/2012 2:48:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

Thank you for this AAR which illustrates (at least for me but I feel a little lonely) the only real trouble of this game: the combat routine that is too deadly and too expeditious.
The complete destruction of 2 reg of the 29th PzGr in just one turn seems very unrealistic. Even during the winter 41-42, it did not happen. The encircled German units have largely resisted Russian attacks and kept the shock (with heavy losses of course).
This is certainly not an easy problem to solve.
IMHO, direct combat should inflict less losses but the units should keep the same ability to make breakthrough.

And what about of the nearly 100 K russian and 20 K german losses in just two days.
At this rate, the Red Army will be gone in a month, needless to make vast encirclements, direct combat should suffice.


With the editor exposed it's pretty trivial to tweak around with combat parameters until you find a spot you are happy with. One quick fix to lower casualties but keep combat results could be to tweak up the Hit to Retreat modifier for sftypes you would rather see retreat more. It would say if a specific sftype is hit and is going to die then X% of the time convert that hit just to a retreat. Might make the combat a little less bloody. But there are a multitude of ways you can tweak combat to be less bloody that idea was just 1.

Because of the editor there is no reason everyone can't tweak a scenario to be happy with it. :)

Oh and it was 3 rgt of 29MotD not 2. :)




rominet -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/13/2012 2:56:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

Thank you for this AAR which illustrates (at least for me but I feel a little lonely) the only real trouble of this game: the combat routine that is too deadly and too expeditious.
The complete destruction of 2 reg of the 29th PzGr in just one turn seems very unrealistic. Even during the winter 41-42, it did not happen. The encircled German units have largely resisted Russian attacks and kept the shock (with heavy losses of course).
This is certainly not an easy problem to solve.
IMHO, direct combat should inflict less losses but the units should keep the same ability to make breakthrough.

And what about of the nearly 100 K russian and 20 K german losses in just two days.
At this rate, the Red Army will be gone in a month, needless to make vast encirclements, direct combat should suffice.


With the editor exposed it's pretty trivial to tweak around with combat parameters until you find a spot you are happy with. One quick fix to lower casualties but keep combat results could be to tweak up the Hit to Retreat modifier for sftypes you would rather see retreat more. It would say if a specific sftype is hit and is going to die then X% of the time convert that hit just to a retreat. Might make the combat a little less bloody. But there are a multitude of ways you can tweak combat to be less bloody that idea was just 1.

Because of the editor there is no reason everyone can't tweak a scenario to be happy with it. :)

Oh and it was 3 rgt of 29MotD not 2. :)


In fact, since two weeks i have the game, i spend half my time with the editor to try to improve things.
I may have found a version that works well but I have to test it further.
But do not say that this is trivial, because when you touch a parameter, you must make many tests to see what happens in reality on the battlefield and some may be contrary to those desired.

When I will have finished (if it works), i will do a comparative presentation with my current AAR Kharkov 42.




Keunert -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/13/2012 3:13:20 PM)

i was talking about the other attack: two russian tank units killing a german one.
your airstrikes did not get intercepted? why is that?




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/13/2012 5:43:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: olivier34

We see that the axis player has to be very cautious when he runs his mobile forces in the back of the soviets. Should the axis player put his units in a "retreat only if 75% of losses" ? I doubt this will change something to those impressive soviet results. (I will run some test)
The soviet units don't have penaltys at all during the first turn. Only after that. Maybe this is something to change or the axis as to consider that and move his units in a way to avoid soviet counter attacks.
in this game casualties are enormous. Is that because the two player are very agressive ?


Well ara's casualties were not too bad until i blew up the 29MotD :). Well my aggressiveness is where my opponents can bait me with mobile defense. ;)




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/13/2012 5:44:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

Thank you for this AAR which illustrates (at least for me but I feel a little lonely) the only real trouble of this game: the combat routine that is too deadly and too expeditious.
The complete destruction of 2 reg of the 29th PzGr in just one turn seems very unrealistic. Even during the winter 41-42, it did not happen. The encircled German units have largely resisted Russian attacks and kept the shock (with heavy losses of course).
This is certainly not an easy problem to solve.
IMHO, direct combat should inflict less losses but the units should keep the same ability to make breakthrough.

And what about of the nearly 100 K russian and 20 K german losses in just two days.
At this rate, the Red Army will be gone in a month, needless to make vast encirclements, direct combat should suffice.


With the editor exposed it's pretty trivial to tweak around with combat parameters until you find a spot you are happy with. One quick fix to lower casualties but keep combat results could be to tweak up the Hit to Retreat modifier for sftypes you would rather see retreat more. It would say if a specific sftype is hit and is going to die then X% of the time convert that hit just to a retreat. Might make the combat a little less bloody. But there are a multitude of ways you can tweak combat to be less bloody that idea was just 1.

Because of the editor there is no reason everyone can't tweak a scenario to be happy with it. :)

Oh and it was 3 rgt of 29MotD not 2. :)


In fact, since two weeks i have the game, i spend half my time with the editor to try to improve things.
I may have found a version that works well but I have to test it further.
But do not say that this is trivial, because when you touch a parameter, you must make many tests to see what happens in reality on the battlefield and some may be contrary to those desired.

When I will have finished (if it works), i will do a comparative presentation with my current AAR Kharkov 42.



Heh i said it's trivial to change it ;) not to verify it works as intended. lol. Yea with a lot of my scenarios it takes many hours of playtesting to verify its ok. Lord WaW and GPW are still time sinks :)




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/13/2012 5:45:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

i was talking about the other attack: two russian tank units killing a german one.
your airstrikes did not get intercepted? why is that?


I had cut off the Pz Rgt. And it was a Pzr Rgt w/o supporting infantry they are very fragile.

Air intercepts are random. Also it depends on readiness if he flys them hard during his turn they won't have the readiness to intercept.




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/15/2012 3:14:49 PM)

T3 Is in and we're burning through men like they are cordwood.

This has become our motto as the soviets.

quote:


Nothing's difficult,
everything's a challenge,
through adversity,
to the stars,
from the last plane,
to the last bullet,
to the last minute,
to the last man,
WE FIGHT,
WE FIGHT,
WE FIGHT,
WE FIGHT,
WE FIGHT,
WE FIGHT


While our style is different then most who would sir robbin as the soviets. We shall put up a fight and never miss an opportunity to bloody the nazi's nose.




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/15/2012 3:38:36 PM)

But it looks like the last man might be coming soon.

[image]https://img.skitch.com/20120815-kp2a75142etyh6ayy8tt2h438u.jpg[/image]

Total solider loses
[image]https://img.skitch.com/20120815-n7eacn31htitfp618s7i9ipm8b.png[/image]

Replacement requests
[image]https://img.skitch.com/20120815-e58k6rf1a1ungj2pnp4jmr1dcs.png[/image]




Keunert -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/15/2012 4:05:40 PM)

whohaa! hats off man!
your first turn kept me admiring your skills,
but your losses are mad, MAD!




Keunert -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/15/2012 4:12:01 PM)

and when you finally get captured, sing this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aFAy8hqvik&feature=player_detailpage#t=9s




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/15/2012 6:01:50 PM)

Though we do get enough reinforcements to hold us over i think we shall be ok. Our losses are dropping little by little every turn as we grind the nazi machine down.





bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/15/2012 6:19:53 PM)

End of T2 Maps


North
5TA comes west to smack 1SSPzMot and the full 9PzD.
[image]https://img.skitch.com/20120815-kn59uahr4d1yrb9ps2p2yagjy4.png[/image]

Center
Moving reinforcements to the river line to try to hold it.
[image]https://img.skitch.com/20120815-km6mjackukaadq44q31e8tp6ng.png[/image]

South
I really don't know what in the hell happened down here. Some good rolls for ara. Sending reinforcements.
[image]https://img.skitch.com/20120815-ryuqfbybr9p8uqu7hdf79ihuty.png[/image]

Sevastopol (Last report)

Situation Report

German forces have moved within 10km of the main city. They have been shelling for days. 2 days ago they launched an all out assault to take the city. They breached to within 3000 meters of Coastal Army CP.
Our dead have increased we have organized Operation SilverHope. The red fleet is coming to withdrawal our forces under the cover of darkness. A few brigades of troopers volunteered to stay behind (No AP) to be our rearguard.

[image]https://img.skitch.com/20120815-mm528tbaipk8sby8aa29dtd2nm.png[/image]




jzardos -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/21/2012 10:53:00 PM)

Any updates? You waiting on abulbulian to get next turn back. Very nice AAR, in fact one of the best ones I've ever seen. There have been a few WitE ones where I think they spent more time on the AAR than actually playing the game. Which says something given the game is WitE.




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/22/2012 1:57:55 AM)

Heh yea I've done another 3 turns and it's looking bleak. We just powered through turns and i wanted to get turns done. We have saved allowed so i plan to go back and update a few batches at a time. And i've been making progress on my ATG War In Europe scen. I gave up on the DC2 mod until vic tweaks it so you can have HQ units as a subunit of a historic OOB.

Thanks for the compliment though it's nice to hear. We finally did get our coastal army disbanded though which helps with troops on the front lines. Going to be a tough fight though to overcome crappy C&C :)




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 9:08:03 AM)

T3

[image]http://witewiki.com/billfiles/games/dc2/images/ara/game2_sov/t3_map_end.png[/image]

Things were coming back to haunt us. Six days into the summer campaign and 150,000 men have become casualties. Stavka and Gen Zhukov fight over a plan. Comrade stalin orders holding and fighting back while general zhukov recommends uniform slow retreat.

Comrade Stalin shares with general Zhukov his newest order of the day #227.

[image]http://witewiki.com/billfiles/games/dc2/images/ara/game2_sov/t2_order_227.png[/image]




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 9:15:24 AM)

Status of the Coastal Army from the crimea.

[image]http://witewiki.com/billfiles/games/dc2/images/ara/game2_sov/t3_caucas_retreat.png[/image]




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 9:54:15 AM)

T4

[image]http://witewiki.com/billfiles/games/dc2/images/ara/game2_sov/t4_map_end.png[/image]




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 10:27:28 AM)

T5


[image]http://witewiki.com/billfiles/games/dc2/images/ara/game2_sov/t5_map_end.png[/image]




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 10:54:10 AM)

T6

[image]http://witewiki.com/billfiles/games/dc2/images/ara/game2_sov/t6_map_end.png[/image]




rominet -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 10:57:05 AM)

Congratulations for this great AAR!
The problem now is that I don't see how the Russians will be able to keep.
The number of russian troops which fell almost 200,000 in just 10 days, it looks really bad and I do not see how you can do better. You didn't suffer any vast encirclement.[:(]




Keunert -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 11:16:47 AM)

very nice AAR indeed, i like the maps with all the info's.

You know that you can check the Axis Oil level? it's really strange that he stopps. he sure could have moved his infantry units. giving you time to dig in is a strange move. i am really looking forward here. my guess would be that your fronts will break soon if he keeps up the pressure. but you seem to be less concerned and to have a plan. it also looks like he throws everything at you with the Sec Div near Rostow. might be an idea to do some small landings and keep him busy behind the lines.




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 11:34:48 AM)

T7

[image]http://witewiki.com/billfiles/games/dc2/images/ara/game2_sov/t7_map_end.png[/image]




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 11:38:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

Congratulations for this great AAR!
The problem now is that I don't see how the Russians will be able to keep.
The number of russian troops which fell almost 200,000 in just 10 days, it looks really bad and I do not see how you can do better. You didn't suffer any vast encirclement.[:(]



Well we did have a few big encirclements in the center but we also lost a whole army plus a tank corp on T2 after we decided to pull the trigger and destroy 9MotD. Ara let me know he was going to make me pay that. I should have retreated but we've been hit by a lot of C&C penalties along with doing as stalin wishes which is to fight at all costs (OOD #227). We must fight. Though we are in a pickle as you'll see coming up in the following turns my front in the central has been ripped to tatters and without rail lines near it's going to be hard to quickly get reinforcements there.




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 11:40:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

very nice AAR indeed, i like the maps with all the info's.

You know that you can check the Axis Oil level? it's really strange that he stopps. he sure could have moved his infantry units. giving you time to dig in is a strange move. i am really looking forward here. my guess would be that your fronts will break soon if he keeps up the pressure. but you seem to be less concerned and to have a plan. it also looks like he throws everything at you with the Sec Div near Rostow. might be an idea to do some small landings and keep him busy behind the lines.



I know why he stopped, ara is roleplaying a 2 day pause to reorganize after his large encirclements. (OOC: He felt bad for me and decided he'd slow the pace for a turn even though i reminded him i have not yet begun to fight. He also wanted to save some oil for his mad cap drive to baku in the coming months. )

I haven't been able to find manpower to launch any invasions yet. for now every unit other then a minor garrison of 47A in the caucasus is going into the meat grinder.




Keunert -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 12:04:55 PM)

Ara's course in the center will be decisive. i think if he play historically it will get him into trouble. he could quite easily drive along the Don to Stalingrad. And once Rostow has fallen, he will be able to run down to the Caucasus. but if he choses to do so he plays into your hands. he will stretch his troops that far that he will have to concentrate his power on two or three areas. but with your increasing reinforcments you will most likely be able to slow him down until a stalemate is reached.

but if he choses to play a little gamey he may will crash your line wherever it's possible, going for your units instead for OKW goals. and then you will be in trouble. you will have to reinforce way back to get a line instead of putting fresh units into battle like peacemeals. that's what makes an Axis win easy against the AI: once the frontline is really shattered you just overrun all areas that get replacements und put them off supply again and again.




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 12:09:45 PM)

T8

[image]http://witewiki.com/billfiles/games/dc2/images/ara/game2_sov/t8_map_end.png[/image]




bwheatley -> RE: Case Blue: Bwheatley vs 'The German Sensation' abulbulian (no abulbulian) (8/26/2012 12:36:41 PM)

T9

[image]http://witewiki.com/billfiles/games/dc2/images/ara/game2_sov/t9_map_end.png[/image]




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