winning voronezh... (Full Version)

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jnpoint -> winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 2:57:57 PM)

At last I bought the game, and it is quite difficult. I have played Voronezh 4 times now, but I'm still losing. I'm always 1 or 2 turns too late. I have tried many strategies and used many different cards, but now I do not know what to do?
Can anyone tell me, what you did do to conqour the AI? Especially the first turn. Thanks.




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 4:01:39 PM)

Have you tried it on Easy? The AI has advantages set even on Normal.




jnpoint -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 4:22:34 PM)

it's a bit embarrassing, but yes I use 'easy'.
But maybe I'm to cautious. I don't want the AI to encircle my units, so I always make sure to have many units across the front, so there are no weak spots. And I never attack without having used artillery or air attack first.




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 4:42:06 PM)

I'm more into modding than winning :) but I think the key to that scenario is the map edges. You need to focus your break through towards the center and then wheel around to pin enemy pockets against the map edge as if another Corps was coming from the north or south of the area shown.

Also, you will have already me the Sov Tank Army that's waiting for you - dive bomb the hell out of any tank units you detect.




TJD -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 4:44:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jnpoint

it's a bit embarrassing, but yes I use 'easy'.


No reason whatsoever to be embarrassed. [;)] Frankly I think "Easy" should actually be relabeled "Normal". The advantages the AI gets on "Normal" are really very significant.

Best,

Tim




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 4:57:07 PM)

I have re-set to Easy after failing on Normal...

OK, here's the first stage of turn 1 (excuse the graphics - still working on them).

I used artillery followed by infantry-only attacks to get the first penetration.

Next move will be to attempt a break through with my Panzer Grenadier divisions, followed by an exploitation by armour. Be prepared to see me humiliated :)

[image]local://upfiles/27287/D461B2214FC444DD9B8B5674756C89B5.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:01:59 PM)

Not quite the gap I had hoped for, but it is a break through of sorts.

Now the Panzer Divisions move up...

[image]local://upfiles/27287/F751549868B348E3808701A5B220F119.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:06:21 PM)

I push my Panzers through the gap and find hidden enemy forces. Now I will use air strikes on the Sov tank formation and the HQ unit.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/C0E836121404488ABB0BDA459415F9E2.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:11:00 PM)

OK, the AI spots my plan and pulls back. Last I played this the AI pushed armour forwards, but that was on Normal...

[image]local://upfiles/27287/15019C9D94D34FF8A99D78F7EEEB6FA6.jpg[/image]




olivier34 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:18:36 PM)

Just played this scenario against the AI (normal). Three first turns quiet good after that a huge stack of soviets began attacking my north flank...tried to defend there and push toward Voro...after three turns the air assets have a low readiness (the soviet air force intercepts quiet well).
End of the game : Soviet minor vicotry. My GD 20 km from Voro.
Will try later again :)




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:22:45 PM)

Yes, I see the Sovs massing to the north as well... Managed to create a decent pocket in the south with ZOC - it probably won't hold.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/EF3DA50F79FA42068DF5B8A2546F5130.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:25:24 PM)

AI counter attacks me in the north and partially extracts its pocketed troops in the south.

These are a couple of points about the AI that really impress me.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/1B596AA058294D3DABD5192FDC4C643F.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:33:52 PM)

I go on the defensive in the north and swing all of my Panzer and PzGr division around in a right hook, while also re-sealing the southern pocket with infantry and GD Div.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/69B412DBE86142F0B38A8AD235C64456.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:42:48 PM)

Mud and strong Sov tank units appear. But the southern pocket holds.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/673B2CD8BEFD4D8F978AA8FDF4C228F0.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:45:25 PM)

I use the mud turn to move all of my mobile units into position for a final lunge NE.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/36C5EE7D08114A46A92824796770CA43.jpg[/image]




jnpoint -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 5:47:14 PM)

impressive answer so far - what is the date now?




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 6:05:11 PM)

6 July - running out of time :)

Scouts report seeing the church spires and domes of a large city to the east...

A Gds Tank HQ blunts the attack of my elite GD division :(

[image]local://upfiles/27287/F406FFD6368348DDA48B28E8C140AF60.jpg[/image]




James Ward -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 6:13:52 PM)

I just got the game and started with Voronezh to learn it . I think I understand the basics of how to play the game but I never could get a victory. Best I could ever get was 17 VP's in 4 tries.




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 6:31:44 PM)

Almost there!

[image]local://upfiles/27287/F0B76F159CF947178767A6477A8AD4CD.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 6:40:53 PM)

I may have blown it with an aborted attack on the city. Not sure if it ends at the start or end of 12 July...

[image]local://upfiles/27287/05C65B9611B14D2CAC46CF8E1260D615.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 6:47:45 PM)

Just made it! Let's see what the AI does and what a Victory screen looks like - never seen a DCCB one before!

[image]local://upfiles/27287/883DC7961D1E4226AD9F182CE7362BAD.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 6:49:44 PM)

Well, nice of you to surrender finally...

[image]local://upfiles/27287/8D79755E9C2547A785C83B8BBE47083A.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 6:51:51 PM)

Don't attack urban hexes with armour...




Grotius -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 7:03:54 PM)

Congrats! That was on Normal, right?

So are you modding the game maps? Really my only complaint about the game is that I don't love the map art. I like the look of WiTE much better, even if I prefer this game in most other respects. I *love* this game, in fact!

But I'm not even sure I like the "squashed" hexes in this game. What's up with that? Do they work better with computer monitors or something?

Also, city names look odd when spread over two hexes, because the graphics are a bit separated. So you'll see something like STALI NGRAD. Not a big deal, but distracting.




jnpoint -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 7:40:11 PM)

Well, you just did it in no time, so now I'm depressed :)




map66 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 7:55:20 PM)

I managed taking Voronezh on normal too, albeit on the second try and after much experimentation on the first turn... The biggest thing seemed to me to be breaking the habits created by other games, especially on the first turn breakthroughs. Namely, don't hold back any units from the initial attacks for exploitations later. As they are going to have to pay the same AP cost to move through the breakthrough hex anyway whether they take part in the combat or not, they might as well take part and thereby help apply overwhelming force in the initial attacks and getting the battles over with as quickly as possible. Secondly, as there appears to be no or relatively minimal AP cost for moving through enemy ZOC, keep the panzer breakthrough sectors very narrow, expanding the flanks only at the end of the turn with whatever infantry APs are left. The combination of those two, plus using speed cards on a division on either side of Tim leads to being able to solidly encircle Tim on the turn, as well as pushing quite a bit east of it. From there just drive south around Milerevo with all you got, ignoring that city itself, and Voronezh should go down. I've become a big fan of Recon cards in exploitation situations, as they are a very cheap way to get quite a big bang on better battle results, let alone identifying any weak points.

All that said, a lot of it felt a bit counter-intuitive at first compared to other games I've been playing recently, such as WiTE and the SSG Decisive Battles, where one tends to want to use the minimal force necessary in most attacks to conserve movement points for later, but I'm starting to really like the system, even if it requires breaking habits...





redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 8:17:06 PM)

I was playing on Easy :(

Actually, I used my units to attack in phases - infantry for the first break-in, then PzGren to make the breach and armour to exploit. I try to save my tanks, which can move further, by avoiding using them to attack fortified hexes.




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 8:21:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Congrats! That was on Normal, right?

So are you modding the game maps? Really my only complaint about the game is that I don't love the map art. I like the look of WiTE much better, even if I prefer this game in most other respects. I *love* this game, in fact!

But I'm not even sure I like the "squashed" hexes in this game. What's up with that? Do they work better with computer monitors or something?

Also, city names look odd when spread over two hexes, because the graphics are a bit separated. So you'll see something like STALI NGRAD. Not a big deal, but distracting.


I have modded several things including maps and units. Check it out here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3147536




Grotius -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/2/2012 9:17:12 PM)

Exciting mods, Redmarkus!




redmarkus4 -> RE: winning voronezh... (8/3/2012 7:07:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Exciting mods, Redmarkus!


Thanks. Please give the PanzerKrieg mod a try and let me know if you like it.

I find that the units graphics mods really have an effect as well...




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