Red Army Support Units (Full Version)

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hfarrish -> Red Army Support Units (8/1/2012 2:14:38 AM)


Does anyone know if there is a comprehensive thread regarding which SUs to build as the Sovs when? I am pretty up to speed on '41 build order but after that (i.e. blizzard and beyond) it starts to get pretty hazy - tank battalions for Corps and...some other stuff? Any advice or a pointer to an existing link would be appreciated.



A game -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/1/2012 4:35:43 AM)

I would like to get some advice on that to! Also what do people find is the optimum amount of SU's for soviet HQs? Art SU's now recieve a bonus to the amount that can be committed to a battle (9 compared to 6 it says in the updated manual) so this means its probably good to go heavy on art?

Im sure there is the information there if we dig around on the forum but could be nice to get some more up to date information from the experts.



Flaviusx -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/1/2012 4:45:17 AM)

I put 4 in every Army HQ: 2 sappers, 2 arty. I don't build any SUs but sappers nowadays for these HQs. You've got enough arty to start with to cover all army HQs without adding to them. (Indeed, I disband the heavy ones.)

At the Front level I place 2 RR construction brigades. STAVKA gets 10-15 of those. That's mainly to cover rail repair, although they can pull double duty as diggers. Sappers are better for digging overall now.

I build enough sappers and tank battalions to give every corps one of each, regardless of corps type. Arguably, you could bump this to 2 sappers. Late in the war, you can start building heavy tank regiments and/or SUs of various flavors (76 and up) and substitute those for tank battalions. Park these in STAVKA until the corps are ready to receive them and make them ahead of time.

None of the other SUs seem cost effective to me at this point for various reasons.



M60A3TTS -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/1/2012 1:18:53 PM)

41 mortar battalions aren't bad if you want to supplement the armies with more tubes. 36 122mm mortars. They don't upgrade and have minimal manpower requirements.

On sapper regiments, I build lots. By Summer 1943 I look to have at least 200.



Tarhunnas -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/1/2012 2:25:08 PM)

I like mortar battalions too. And mortars are supposedly very effective in dishing out casualties.

I tend to build tank battalions because the Red Army is usually literally swimming in tanks in 1942, so to get them from the pool to the front you need many units with tanks. And since armament points are in short supply, tanks is a good way to provide firepower for low armaments and manpower costs. That is my theory at least, please debunk it if I'm wrong.



hfarrish -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/1/2012 2:31:06 PM)


Does anyone build AT SUs? One would hope the game mechanics would make these useful in areas where you are likely to face panzers, but I haven't really seen anyone ever recommend it - is the benefit just far outweighed by the opportunity cost of other SUs (i.e. sappers, arty, tank) that have broader application?



Flaviusx -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/1/2012 2:39:42 PM)

I've built them, and they are marginally ok, but the biggest problem I have with them is that they are kinda pricey in terms of armament points. Mostly I avoid like the plague building anything relating to guns, mortars, artillery, AA, and AT. The riflemen need all this stuff in their divisions and corps, and lots of them, so to the extent you're building any of that, it's kind of counterproductive. In time, the Soviet rifleman has no need for additional firepower in this form, the TOE's keep adding more and more of this stuff organically.

Plain fact of the matter is that by 1943, the Soviet rifle corps chews up tanks just fine on its own. No real need for further AT assistance.

Sappers are cheap. So are tanks, which you eventually get more of than you know what to do with, although I'm a little wary of the vehicle requirements (not big, but vehicles are scarce early on.)




Walloc -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/1/2012 2:47:20 PM)

I do, while i have been continusouly been making fewer and fewer SUs and im not sure im finnished in that process. i still like to have 2 AT SUs 76mm+ only at Army HQs. So few things that cause armored losses after mid 42. Inf divs 45mm doesnt really cut it. I dont really have an opinion on whether this is worth it or not tho. It might just be better to make tank SUs cuz it giving CV, less arm, pools and so on.
I would have liked to be able to make some AT bdes too for Reserve both offense and defence. I havent found that there is much AP room for using this in numbers making it a meaningfull tactic.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

Edit: I mean more tank SUs i have been making em before.



Schmart -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/1/2012 5:29:25 PM)

You can download my guide for building the Russian Army here: [;)]

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3126849

It's based on the historical Army, so makes no judgement as to what is best for gameplay benifits.



turtlefang -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/3/2012 2:27:36 AM)

I don't have the experience that most of the folks responding do so take this with a last grain of salt.

Trucks have been a big limitation factor - more for getting supplies forward - so I try to keep usage down. But I like firepower, so I tend to build 3 Art SU per army (2 Art and 1 Mrt), and 2 sappers. I usually build 2 RR construction per front - I haven't really built the 10-15 refered to at STAVKA.

The tank SUs aren't added until 43 - I usually have an AP shortage in 42 trying to built Tank Corp and Infantry Corp - so don't have much to spare for Tank SU. Plus covering the losses to the Germans in 42. Just hard to build anything except the Corps.



Don77 -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/3/2012 3:16:56 AM)

Suggestion:

'Frontal' armies
41
SU – RR Bde x3, Corps Arty x2, BM How Regt, How Regt, Sapper Regt, PVO Regt Arty - largely achievable by allocation (not building from scratch)
42
SU - add AA Regt
43
SU - Add Sapper regt, transfer out 1/2 RR bdes to Front HQ/Stavka

Corps:
Cav - Sapper Regt, Indep Tk Bn (become Regt), later add SU Regt (Lt, Mdm, Hvy?)
Rifle - Sapper Regt, 41 b AT Gun Regt or 41b AT Rifle Regt, ? - possibly Mor Regt/Bn ?
Tank - Sapper Regt, 41 b AT Gun Regt, Hvy tank regt
Mech - Sapper Regt, 41 b AT Gun Regt, Hvy tank regt

Air HQ
PVO regt x 2, AA Regt x 2

Front HQ
PVO regt x 1, AA regt x 1
Transfer in RR Bdes in 43





hfarrish -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/3/2012 3:18:41 AM)

If by Frontal armies you mean armies at the front, I would think 3 RR bdes in 41 is too high in 41...given the fort nerf their digging is just not that valuable anymore and they are huge manpower sinkholes. I prefer 1 RR bde and 2 sappers plus 3 arty in 41, and I think that is even aggressive on the RR front...



Don77 -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/3/2012 3:33:51 AM)

Good point,

I differentiate 'Frontal' with the C Atk/C Pen armies under Stavka

Shock
SU - 3 x sapper, 6 x arty (How, Gun etc), 6 x AA (PVO and AA), plus Mor and Hvy Mor (existing and re-allocated)
Tank
SU as raised, plus 3 x Indep tank, 3 x Hvy Tank, 3 x Hvy SU
'Raised', ie additional raised armies (not reinforcements)
SU as raised



Offworlder -> RE: Red Army Support Units (8/3/2012 11:17:42 PM)

Interesting thread...

BTW is there an AA formation which could be attached to corps (of any kind)? And do they double as AT similar to the Axis?



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