Community Modding Discussion (Full Version)

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redmarkus4 -> Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 6:46:20 AM)

PURPOSE:

To provide a single thread for modders working collaboratively on DCCB Modding to plan and share ideas.

Mod downloads for players will be posted elsewhere and non-modders, though always welcome to read the content here, are asked to refrain from posting.

CURRENT COMMUNITY MOD TEAM:

Maps & graphics
- Krupp_88
- Redmarkus

OOB and TOE
- WilliePete
- Iņaki Harrizabalagatar

Events
- Vacant

Historical Research
- Budd
- amatteucci
- Sulla05
- ComradeP

Play Testers
- Keunert
- amatteucci
- Sulla05
- ComradeP

More volunteers are needed in every category!

MODS UNDER DEVELOPMENT

Modded Stock scenarios:

- (BIG) Case Blue Full, historical OOB on PzKrg map (WilliePete, Budd and Redmarkus)
- (SMALL) 2nd Kharkov onto WitE MAP (Krupp_88 and Redmarkus)
- (SMALL) Rostov 17th Army on WitE and PzKrg maps (WilliePete and Redmarkus)

New Scenarios:

- (SMALL) Manstein's Winter Offensive towards Stalingrad on WitE and PzKrg maps (Iņaki Harrizabalagatar and Redmarkus)
- (BIG) AGS June 22 to December 31, 1941 (Redmarkus, ComradeP, Sulla05, amatteucci, Keunert with room for more modders and testers!)




Keunert -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 7:24:31 AM)

Markus: i could do some playtesting. but with holidays coming and an aar ongoing i could start mid August earliest.




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 7:34:07 AM)

That's great, thanks. Mid-August will be fine for us - we might not even be ready then.




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 9:19:46 AM)

Modders, I think we should maybe hold off modding the OOBs until after the first patch is final as they are fixing several OOB issues in the stock scenarios. We would need to discover what all the fixes are and implement them in parallel if we have modded the OOBs because of how OOBs are handled by the game - one per scenario.

It's probably best to focus on researching the historical OOBs and practicing the modding steps, as well as map mod work for the next few days at least.




amatteucci -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 10:15:42 AM)

Speaking of OOBs, I presume that the single best English-language source for the forces at start most scenarios (with the possible exception of the ones depicting Uranus) is "To the gates of Stalingrad" by David Glantz. If you all have other tomes to suggest, please do.

Another useful source, for the Soviet OOB, is the Boevoy Sostav Sovetskoy Armii, available here:
http://tashv.nm.ru/BoevojSostavSA/BoevojSostavSA.html

Moreover, it would be useful to know if the developers are going to add also more pieces of equipement to the game. If not, a prerequisite for modded OOBs is to compile a list of what should be the complete equipement list (and what their factors should be). It would be a pity to have an heavy modded and historically accurate OOBs and, for example, leave out Lend Lease tanks, or keeping the current über-76mm.




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 10:40:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: amatteucci

Speaking of OOBs, I presume that the single best English-language source for the forces at start most scenarios (with the possible exception of the ones depicting Uranus) is "To the gates of Stalingrad" by David Glantz. If you all have other tomes to suggest, please do.

Another useful source, for the Soviet OOB, is the Boevoy Sostav Sovetskoy Armii, available here:
http://tashv.nm.ru/BoevojSostavSA/BoevojSostavSA.html

Moreover, it would be useful to know if the developers are going to add also more pieces of equipement to the game. If not, a prerequisite for modded OOBs is to compile a list of what should be the complete equipement list (and what their factors should be). It would be a pity to have an heavy modded and historically accurate OOBs and, for example, leave out Lend Lease tanks, or keeping the current über-76mm.


Thanks. Does this mean you are volunteering to help with research? [:D]




amatteucci -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 12:05:31 PM)

Yes, I am. [:)]

I guess that, after the ACW, you're working also on a Tintin mod? [:D]




ComradeP -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 2:39:33 PM)

I'm available for research and playtesting, if needed. I might also learn to use the editor at some point, but at the moment I don't have enough spare time for lots of editor work due to commitments to other games.




sulla05 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 2:50:21 PM)

Same here for research and playtesting but time constraints and lack of knowledge cut down my modding possibilities.




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 3:05:55 PM)

(CORRECTED)

Excellent, gents.

We need the following for a possible 1941 AGS Scenario at the same scale as Op Blue (thus using as much of the event code as possible) and covering everything from the Pripyat in the north to the middle of the Black Sea in the south, and east as far as a line about 8 hexes east of Rostov. I am exploring this now will soon post a preliminary map, adapted from Operation Blue with hexes added on the left and removed on the right:

1 TOEs and OOB Axis
2 Reinforcement schedule Axis (to include an event for the arrival of Guderian from the north with appropriate Soviet units in his path)
3 SFT pics and specs Axis
4 TOEs and OOB Soviet
5 Reinforcement schedule Soviets
6 SFT pics and specs Sov
7 Suggested VP locations and values
8 Suggested event code

I know that ComradeP is a Soviet 'expert', and I think Sulla normally plays as Axis, correct? How does the following project plan look to you?

Phase 1 - initial map modding (Redmarkus)
Phase 2 - research of Axis OOB by Sulla and placement of Axis units on map by (other)
Phase 3 - research of Axis OOB by ComradeP and placement of Axis units on map by (other)
Phase 4 - Assigning of VP Points, suggestions for editing of settings, supply hexes and event code changes led by amatteucci but with input or support from all
Phase 5 - Initial play test by all




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 3:06:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: amatteucci

Yes, I am. [:)]

I guess that, after the ACW, you're working also on a Tintin mod? [:D]


Yes, Tintin in the Land of the Soviets is a favorite LOL




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 3:29:09 PM)

Here is the new map template, prior to modding. I can add hex rows of course, if needed, but I'd like to keep it as close to these dimensions as possible.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/5AD06DD442644F8EAE60D9CF5008C3DD.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 5:10:36 PM)

Does anyone want to get involved in doing a historical Axis unit symbols mod?

Great link provided by Templer to a resource here - http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/symbols/_symbols_39.html




sulla05 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 5:12:25 PM)

I will do my best. The last time I really got into modding games was the 90s with some SSG games.

For the OOB does anyone have a problem with Nafziger's?




ComradeP -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 5:19:22 PM)

AGS's Barbarossa campaign might be very difficult to model with the ineffectiveness of artillery and air power, the current loss rates combined with the current replacement rates and will be difficult to balance vs. the AI due to its combat bonuses. If it could be made to work, however, it could be a very nice scenario at this scale. It's not going to be easy, but I enjoy a challenge.




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 5:51:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

AGS's Barbarossa campaign might be very difficult to model with the ineffectiveness of artillery and air power, the current loss rates combined with the current replacement rates and will be difficult to balance vs. the AI due to its combat bonuses. If it could be made to work, however, it could be a very nice scenario at this scale. It's not going to be easy, but I enjoy a challenge.


I'm pretty sure the engine will allow us to up the air power effects. Every SFT has a combat table with editable attack and defense settings. I haven't looked into this yet, but there are a lot of moddable options there.




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 6:20:52 PM)

Eastern Black Sea for AGS Scenario

[image]local://upfiles/27287/51255A2485554D088923D48A6BB63BC7.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 6:22:50 PM)

Lublin to Kiev, with many details to go.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/F73D912A0E9E463C8233DE7001C1C3E2.jpg[/image]




amatteucci -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 6:29:09 PM)

Will there be a L'vov pocket variant of this scenario? [:'(]

Anyway, is there a way to export SFT values (and, generally speaking, all kinds of game's data) into a CSV file or something similar?

P.S. Markus, you're doing a terrific work! I'm very impressed by your speed and accuracy. Are you following a scaled up version of WitE map to draw your extended map or what?




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 10:18:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

I will do my best. The last time I really got into modding games was the 90s with some SSG games.

For the OOB does anyone have a problem with Nafziger's?


SSG is very relevant, IMO!




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/28/2012 10:24:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: amatteucci

Will there be a L'vov pocket variant of this scenario? [:'(]

Anyway, is there a way to export SFT values (and, generally speaking, all kinds of game's data) into a CSV file or something similar?

P.S. Markus, you're doing a terrific work! I'm very impressed by your speed and accuracy. Are you following a scaled up version of WitE map to draw your extended map or what?


Hi.

Thanks :)

Not sure about the SFT export - we need to ask Vic. You can import maps and OOBs from other scenarios into a new one, but that doesn't help us, but it does mean that there's an export function and an accessible underlying table already in place...

If you guys add a Lvov pocket variant I will resign LOL

For the extended map I added a white jpeg of WW2 in southern Russia and drew on top of that, then removed it before saving.




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 9:32:14 AM)

The area around Kiev is taking shape - needs roads, rail and more towns, plus place names.

I'm going to create a new graphic for marshy forests (the dark green forest hexes) with blue marsh lines on top of trees, but the plain hex color instead of green. This will make it consistent with the other marsh hex image.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/39950C9F14C14852A9501D17E708A286.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 3:48:45 PM)

I decided to start the whole map from scratch because the projection and distances of the original didn't map onto any existing map I could find. The result was that if I placed, say, Lvov a correct number of hexes from Kiev, I couldn't get Vinnitsa to sit a correct number of hexes from both, and from Odessa. All of the distances in the scenario would be out with unknown consequences for the outcome.

I have used a more correct projection and hopefully, at this scale the effect on hex count won't be too serious. This allows me to use a real map as a trace, resulting in a much more accurate rendition.

I will add towns and cities in their historical locations as well.

It would be very useful to get some scans of game maps covering this area so that I can plot the swamps and forests from them - not much to be found online...

[image]local://upfiles/27287/FC4A2254A757453E98FB68ABC98476CF.jpg[/image]




amatteucci -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 4:27:17 PM)

Markus, I was asking whether you were using WitE's map exactly for the same reason (i.e. consistency of projection for diverse areas).
BTW, since you're starting from scratch again, I suggesto to use a larger map (you may run into similar problems when you'll make the map for a Barbarossa scenario [;)]).
In this respect, I guess that, using a scaled WitE map as base, could be a sensible choice.




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 4:33:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amatteucci

Markus, I was asking whether you were using WitE's map exactly for the same reason (i.e. consistency of projection for diverse areas).
BTW, since you're starting from scratch again, I suggesto to use a larger map (you may run into similar problems when you'll make the map for a Barbarossa scenario [;)]).
In this respect, I guess that, using a scaled WitE map as base, could be a sensible choice.


Yes, I was playing with this also - probably makes most sense. Not 100% accurate but probably the best artistic interpretation out there and it makes it easy if we decide to do a WitE mod as well.

For size, it is currently 99x59 but I will increase that to 200x120. The first scale is good for division-sized units, and the larger one for regimental.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/6432BCD941664FFEB81F86BE7D8F5AD8.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 4:38:20 PM)

Re-scaled the overlay looks like this. Comments?

[image]local://upfiles/27287/EEFD372F856A4130B8730536CA2FEC75.jpg[/image]




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 5:36:10 PM)

And it starts to look like this which I think is much better. Also, the scale feels right, but we need to test that before we finalise the OOB design.

[image]local://upfiles/27287/1F46E198395740A8AD78A9CDCFBC14C0.jpg[/image]




ComradeP -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 5:53:13 PM)

Keep in mind that WitE uses a different scale and that it has its own problems with some locations being too close or too far away from others. In this case most notably Rostov.




redmarkus4 -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 5:59:14 PM)

OK, thanks. I guess everyone who tries to turn the earth into hex maps faces challenges. Any suggestions for a better template than WitE that I can access as a single bitmap?

To be honest, I'd like to press on now and not start this for a third time.

Also, the point about being able to instantly covert the final product to a 'WitE map version' is compelling, no?




ComradeP -> RE: Community Modding Discussion (7/29/2012 6:03:38 PM)

I'm fine with using an adjusted version of the WitE map, but as stated: the scale is different, which is something to keep in mind.

I don't know whether we can increase the value when stacking penalties start from 100 to 150, for example, to compensate for the increased area that each hex represents.




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