Pelton 3.5m vs Hugh 9.5m March 1944 Draw (Full Version)

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Pelton -> Pelton 3.5m vs Hugh 9.5m March 1944 Draw (7/19/2012 1:34:35 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvlvWnz2-bY&feature=related

Turn 2
4 ARM
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 510,000 Total dead: 510,000
Russian OOB: 3,935,000
A net gain of: men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 56
GHC OOB: 3,340,000
GHC net OOB change: +0,000

AGN: This game I move 39 PZ Corp to Pskov area and the river is crossed in force and swamp taken. Air drops made. I Corp is set up with Model and is marching to the front asap.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/53334A9A926C4D60885B94C8FF6D9C40.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/19/2012 1:35:21 AM)

AGC: just basicly pushing to river and land bridge. Going to simply wait for infantry and railheads. I will push some but just to gain the river. Going to get 2nd PG to max CV by turn 7.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/AEEF0FB3765845279B0207FFBADED0DC.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/19/2012 1:35:52 AM)

AGS: RHC is lightly screening the front and headed for rivers. I might start a chain on turn 3. 6th army will be marching only to try and help with river crossing on turn 4.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/669A2F000E2941E589D6941506DC403F.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/21/2012 2:06:28 PM)

Turn 4
4 ARM
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 220,000 Total dead: 730,000
Russian OOB: 3,872,000
A net gain of: -60,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,410,000
GHC net OOB change: +60,000


Stalin turns on the weather machine to try and stop the GHC, mud.


Picture says it all [sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif]


[image]local://upfiles/20387/714E4E41C7954C89A02E09D8C5274FEF.jpg[/image]




Walloc -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/21/2012 2:55:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Stalin turns on the weather machine to try and stop the GHC, mud.


Lucky you [:'(]
Well, over all prolly not the worst turn it could happen. Will stop the pace of withdrawl too.

Kind regards,

Rasmus




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/21/2012 3:03:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Stalin turns on the weather machine to try and stop the GHC, mud.


Lucky you [:'(]
Well, over all prolly not the worst turn it could happen. Will stop his pace of withdrawl too.

Kind regards,

Rasmus


Only problem is the next turn (5)the south center zone was mud.

AGN: I probably would have had Leningrad cut off + 1 Corp HQB so that would have been over very early with all but 2 divisions of PG 4 headed to Moscow and 1/2 of 16th army. Models Corp can solo it when you get that close this early.

AGC: Probably would have easly have been over river in south with 2 HQB's for a major breakout on turn 5.

Mud on turns 4 and 5, not good.

I wanted to try a random weather game and so far very very unlucky.




Walloc -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/21/2012 3:18:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Only problem is the next turn (5)the south center zone was mud.

I wanted to try a random weather game and so far very very unlucky.


When it rain it pours? [;)]

Sorry to hear Pelton, that was unlucky. Depending on luck it could come back. Only 70% chance of mud in N zone when it comes to that. 2-3 bad rolls(for SHC) and its alot of snow. No doubt luck plays heavily into random weather. I remember a pbem destroying a pz and mot div purely cuz of weather. Mid being mud putting every one in N zone in the center in isolation and my opponent wasnt carefull enough.

Kind regards,

Rasmus




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/21/2012 3:38:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Only problem is the next turn (5)the south center zone was mud.

I wanted to try a random weather game and so far very very unlucky.


When it rain it pours? [;)]

Sorry to hear Pelton, that was unlucky. Depending on luck it could come back. Only 70% chance of mud in N zone when it comes to that. 2-3 bad rolls(for SHC) and its snow. No doubt luck plays heavily into random weather. I remember a pbem destroying a pz and mot div purely cuz of weather. Mid being mud putting every one in N zone in the mid in isolation and my opponent wasnt carefull enough.

Kind regards,

Rasmus


The only thing saving me is SHC ran east way way to fast and I started chaining on turn 3 so beleive it or not I am still on schedule. I am over the rivers in north starting a right hook(that can go north/north east or south east) allot of units in HQB range for next turn if it don't freaking rain again and AGS is over the river with 2 Corp with Corp HQ's with 350+ gas after moves, 6 more divisions what have Corp HQ withen HQB range for the coming turn.

Even with the nerfed fuel rules GHC can keep up with runners to flip hexes for infantry, np.

I did plan ahead for a mud turn here and there.

If he was fighting forward I would be screwed.

This will probably be my only random weather game. Its just like handing a sure win to SHC with the nerfed logistics rules if they simply use the standard delaying tactics most peeps use now.




Walloc -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/21/2012 3:40:30 PM)

f... forum, ignore




Scook_99 -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/21/2012 3:43:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Only problem is the next turn (5)the south center zone was mud.

I wanted to try a random weather game and so far very very unlucky.


When it rain it pours? [;)]

Sorry to hear Pelton, that was unlucky. Depending on luck it could come back. Only 70% chance of mud in N zone when it comes to that. 2-3 bad rolls(for SHC) and its snow. No doubt luck plays heavily into random weather. I remember a pbem destroying a pz and mot div purely cuz of weather. Mid being mud putting every one in N zone in the mid in isolation and my opponent wasnt carefull enough.

Kind regards,

Rasmus



I am playing my first two games without random weather, what a difference! In about half of my games, I was unlucky enough to get "rolling" weather fronts, with my tanks on the edge of the central weather zone, only to have the north (which I would be moving into) change to mud. Essentially, my opponent gets a 3 turn reprieve, 2 from the weather, and one 1 turn needed to build up supplies again. The only good thing is you know you won't be getting rain in the central again in the first 17 turns.




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/24/2012 12:50:57 PM)

Turn 5
4 ARM
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 177,000 Total dead: 907,000
Russian OOB: 4,358,000
A net gain of: 400,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,450,000
GHC net OOB change: +40,000

Despite 2 turns of mud things are going good only because SHC has been running.
In each picture check out fuel dumps in each PZ Corp. This is after I have moved and none of this units had done a HQB this game.

Where are the Russians?

AGN: just basically drives over the rivers and starts the right hook. GHC sends another full PZ Corp and 3 infantry Corp into this drive.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/389319AA77B84FFD90951649DB189302.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/24/2012 12:52:52 PM)

AGC: smashes over the land bridge again where are the Russians?


[image]local://upfiles/20387/B8BE9C719DDB4D65BA626AB68FB6D491.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/24/2012 12:53:58 PM)

AGS: The one HQB I did last turn pays off big time and 2 mot Corps cross the rivers and open up a bridge head. The Red army looks like it might start fighting in south. I have every PZ Corp within HQB for next turn. As can be seen XIV Corp and the build-up Corp ( not in the picture have over 350 fuel pts. So I can exploit with those 6 divisions next turn far past bridge head and the other 6 divisions can get over rivers by 1 to 2 hexes and receive a HQB next turn. So basically I will have a 3 turn chain with the third leg being a huge build-up. This should keep drive going until turn 8 with air drops. Planes have been moved to the very front and will rest next turn as they will not be needed. Then spam drops the following turn. Thatís the plan anyways, unless another act of the gods saves the SHC. SHC has way to much in south it looks like :)


[image]local://upfiles/20387/9AB523625C804C7A91CEE0075FA5BE01.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/25/2012 10:15:55 PM)

Turn 6
4 ARM
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 85,000 Total dead: 992,000
Russian OOB: 4,483,000
A net gain of: 125,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 22
GHC OOB: 3,453,000
GHC net OOB change: +3,000

Resistance is stiffening some, but still light only fuel issue holding back GHC right now. SHC manpower numbers are high, but starting to make contact with some forces.

AGN: 70 miles from cutting rail lines to Leningrad. 8 PZ units got a HQB and 7 others will have 35 to 40 MPís. I Corp should hit the front lines next turn. Possible large break out next turn.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/65C16144D22E46B988FB30596AAA72CC.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/25/2012 10:16:34 PM)

AGC: Moving forward a few hexes each turn. Still waiting on 13 infantry divisions to get to land bridge.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/18CA340130CD465B82623EA0C77E8B8F.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/25/2012 10:17:19 PM)

AGS: Crosses river in force and pockets 10 units. Again air drops made and most PZ units will have good Mpís plus 4 divisions got a HQB. More importantly 7 infantry divisions are over.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/3CEA1C5B36914EA1A70844610BCC5CB7.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/26/2012 2:32:04 AM)

Kinda interesting to look at all 3 games I have going:

Turn 7 Bobo
Total dead: 1,335,000
Russian OOB: 4,333,000 Total= 5,668,000
GHC OOB: 3,377,000

Turn 7 Brian
Total dead: 1,538,000
Russian OOB: 4,153,000 Total= 5,691,000
GHC OOB: 3,341,000

Turn 7 Hugh
Total dead: 1,161,000
Russian OOB: 4,515,000 Total= 5,676,000
GHC OOB: 3,456,000


All 3 have a different play style.




Tophat1812 -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/26/2012 2:47:46 AM)

You are right,its interesting that the numbers are comparable with three different styles of play. Score one for consistency,even though 3 games is a small sample.




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/26/2012 3:15:42 AM)

I have a bigger sample of games (8). All the 1.06 games have been withen 50k +/- through 17 turns. These are just the 1.06.13+ games

Then the manpower output ect can change the numbers by the summer of 42





Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 3:45:09 AM)

Turn 7
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 169,000 Total dead: 1,161,000
Russian OOB: 4,515,000
A net gain of: 32,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 20
GHC OOB: 3,456,000
GHC net OOB change: +3,000

AGN: A 50 mil e wide hole is made by I Corps in the red lines and 11 panzer units breakout has cut the rail line to Leningrad and is only 70 miles from Lake Onega. Fuel levels are good and 1 Corp did a HQB. As soon as Leningrad is sealed off 16th and 4th PG will head for Moscow.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/238406FAC2FD421AB88BE2EBA062D556.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 3:45:48 AM)

AGC: Moving forward a few hexes each turn. Some of the infantry start arriving at the front. 190 miles from Moscow. Grinding will begin soon.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/D4687AA080F34E63AD6735CF5A9D6EA0.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 3:46:22 AM)

AGS: Clears last turns pocket and drives south east cutting off another 11 units. The next river line is heavily defended . A double stack of units in level 2 forts behind a minor river looks to be the first real resistance AGS will meet this summer.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/97C0F8DE5B32411890ECBFCF4DD9A2C1.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 12:36:31 PM)

Turn 8
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 90,000 Total dead: 1,250,000
Russian OOB: 4,635,000
A net gain of: 115,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 20
GHC OOB: 3,436,000
GHC net OOB change: -20,000

SHC has a huge army for turn 8. Only other person to have an army this big at this time was M60.

AGN: Rail lines remain cut to Leningrad north, Fins breakout and start south. I Corp should be assaulting Leningrad on turn 10. The rest of 16th/9th armys with 4th PG will start assaulting Moscow on turn 10. Grabbed far more land then expected this early in game.

[image]local://upfiles/20387/C3186C2B6DE84CF188AE53219300437A.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 12:37:37 PM)

AGC: I should have 30 infantry divisions making the assault on Moscow on turn 10 from center and another 20 from AGN, plus all the panzer units other then possibly 2 helping take Leningrad. 2 PZ here right now to exploit any soft spots. AGC links up with AGS.
Moscow 90 miles away from AGN and 120 from AGC.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/B39BFC2E7B214F6FA0714334660A007D.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 12:38:23 PM)

AGS: SHC linked up with pocket, but GHC closed it and drove east more. Infantry finally getting to front. Be a turn or 2 before infantry are in place and HQB done. Need major push will be around turn 10.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/9F8E845BBEB94AA4BD0ADE3434838878.jpg[/image]




hfarrish -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 6:22:32 PM)

I am the opponent for Pelton in this game, and given where the AAR is (we are significantly further along) I thought it would be a good time to pop in and offer a couple of comments, as most of the previous turns were not particularly interesting given the lack of actual fighting.

First, I'd like to thank Pelton for offering up a tough challenge - I knew what I was getting into but he has done a good job of keeping at my heels and exploiting any errors.

My strategy for the summer of '41 was to accomplish the following:

1. Preserve the Red Army - I was fortunate to play a couple of other PBEM's post fort nerf prior to this round and learned quickly how hopeless and self defeating it is to stand and fight in a meaningful way before turns 7 and 8. From an execution perspective, this meant withdrawing all the relatively high morale infantry to begin constructing lines that had a prayer of being defended without resulting in a major pocket. I think the Dnepr from Dnepetrovosk (sp) northward is a death trap, so I screened this and the landbridge with weak units that I did not refit, preferring instead to construct lines from the Molochna in the South up along the Vorskla, then from Bryansk north through Vyzama and Rzhev. Weak units were also used to try and keep a unit on the motorized/pz forces at all times.

This effort leaves little for Leningrad, so I put some strong units in the swamps running north from Novgorod to the city itself, making no serious attempt to hold the Luga.

2. Efficient Factory Evacuation - Speaks for itself.

3. Hold Moscow - Going to be a near run thing.

Overall I'm pleased with my play so far, with the exception of two glaring errors - I left the T50 factory in Leningrad b/c I thought it was one that didn't upgrade...that was wrong, so a future T-34 factory is toast. The second, and more significant was a failure to properly guard against the right hook around Leningrad. I call this an error although I am not sure that I would have done things much differently...any troops I sent there would not have been able to stop Pelton; possibly they could have delayed him a turn or two but only at the cost of weakening another sector and potentially getting additional units pocketed. Can't be strong everywhere, and the quick fall of Leningrad did allow me to get most of my troops to Moscow in time to start digging (for what it's worth).

On a related note, I thought this was also Pelton's one noticeable error - I think by taking a couple of turns away from the turn to Moscow he could have bagged the entire Northern Front, which would have been a seriously crushing blow to my morale and strategy. I don't see the other side so maybe the realities of supply made this impossible, but it didn't seem like it would have taken that much to accomplish.

Anyway, a good game to date and I hope people find it interesting. I don't think anyone has really figured out the secret sauce for the Soviets in 41 yet, at least not from any AAR against a good German player that I am seeing...so at least I don't feel like I'm doing too badly!




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 6:47:08 PM)

Turn 9
German Arm PTs in pool=
German Manpower in pool=
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed during 1942 =
Russian losses this turn: 92,000 Total dead: 1,342,000
Russian OOB: 4,643,000
A net gain of: 10,000 men
Russian units currently in a pocket: 20ish
GHC OOB: 3,450,000
GHC net OOB change: 14,000


AGN: SHC heads east. This area of operations is basically a back water now for the rest of the war. I should be able to start digging the winter lines by turn 12 at latest. I plan on holding fast in the north.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/BC22FFF5A79E4812B2FD68A575F94BA4.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 6:47:47 PM)

AGC: Grinding will start will all the infantry next turn. I do not expect Moscow to be that hard to take as SHC strategy seems to be saving the army and industry at the expense of the manpower centers.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/4E9B4B9C91394EE4B546C8E8DC1DE978.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 6:48:19 PM)


AGS: Pocket in south reopened and then closed. No time lost as railheads are still to far away. Infantry moving up.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/11B3283968674F19BC1CA5CEC51C1128.jpg[/image]




Pelton -> RE: Panzers East!!!!! Is it gonna go my way? Charge!!!!!!! (7/29/2012 6:59:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

I am the opponent for Pelton in this game, and given where the AAR is (we are significantly further along) I thought it would be a good time to pop in and offer a couple of comments, as most of the previous turns were not particularly interesting given the lack of actual fighting.

First, I'd like to thank Pelton for offering up a tough challenge - I knew what I was getting into but he has done a good job of keeping at my heels and exploiting any errors.

My strategy for the summer of '41 was to accomplish the following:

1. Preserve the Red Army - I was fortunate to play a couple of other PBEM's post fort nerf prior to this round and learned quickly how hopeless and self defeating it is to stand and fight in a meaningful way before turns 7 and 8. From an execution perspective, this meant withdrawing all the relatively high morale infantry to begin constructing lines that had a prayer of being defended without resulting in a major pocket. I think the Dnepr from Dnepetrovosk (sp) northward is a death trap, so I screened this and the landbridge with weak units that I did not refit, preferring instead to construct lines from the Molochna in the South up along the Vorskla, then from Bryansk north through Vyzama and Rzhev. Weak units were also used to try and keep a unit on the motorized/pz forces at all times.

This effort leaves little for Leningrad, so I put some strong units in the swamps running north from Novgorod to the city itself, making no serious attempt to hold the Luga.

2. Efficient Factory Evacuation - Speaks for itself.

3. Hold Moscow - Going to be a near run thing.

Overall I'm pleased with my play so far, with the exception of two glaring errors - I left the T50 factory in Leningrad b/c I thought it was one that didn't upgrade...that was wrong, so a future T-34 factory is toast. The second, and more significant was a failure to properly guard against the right hook around Leningrad. I call this an error although I am not sure that I would have done things much differently...any troops I sent there would not have been able to stop Pelton; possibly they could have delayed him a turn or two but only at the cost of weakening another sector and potentially getting additional units pocketed. Can't be strong everywhere, and the quick fall of Leningrad did allow me to get most of my troops to Moscow in time to start digging (for what it's worth).

On a related note, I thought this was also Pelton's one noticeable error - I think by taking a couple of turns away from the turn to Moscow he could have bagged the entire Northern Front, which would have been a seriously crushing blow to my morale and strategy. I don't see the other side so maybe the realities of supply made this impossible, but it didn't seem like it would have taken that much to accomplish.

Anyway, a good game to date and I hope people find it interesting. I don't think anyone has really figured out the secret sauce for the Soviets in 41 yet, at least not from any AAR against a good German player that I am seeing...so at least I don't feel like I'm doing too badly!


1. To-date your the best ever at having an army that HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehe 4.750.000 on turn 12 [:-]

2. Good job, but to be honest I dont even bother keeping track. I track manpower pts, units lost after November 1st 41. Manpower and AP crunchs is all that matters for my personal strategy.

3. Its going to fall because of right hook and I think I can frontal assault it now without it being cut off as I have done in the past in 42 vs Corps and not divisions.

As far as mistakes you made I say none. Your not going to stop the right hook, I can plow through it no matter how high stuff is stacked.

The pocketing of The Northern Front was not possible because of fuel. I would have stayed 1 more turn if you had, simply to pin troops. But pocketing them is only possible vs a green horn and your not.

I would say this game is following the same story line as my game vs M60 generally.

He fought forward a little more then you but lost more troops.

Everything is going as planned for both of us so far. [sm=00000436.gif]




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