RE: Going Coastal (Full Version)

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crsutton -> RE: Going Coastal (11/23/2012 4:02:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


I have never received Intel on the location of a Japanese Carrier, maybe that's just bad luck






So rare. I have had it happen three time in about 1,000 turns. But nice when it happens.




Cannonfodder -> RE: Going Coastal (11/24/2012 8:56:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


Burma:

The only major event was problem Greyjoy had with leakers; he set a whole bunch of ZEROS to LRCAP, and they ran into a buzzsaw of sweeping Allied fighters, shooting down 70 of them, in exchange for 18 of my guys.

Leakers are a big problem for the Empire over Burma; I will not exploit it intentionally, but it's going to happen sometimes

Other problem is that the Zero is now looking more obsolete; it did fine against P-39 sweepers, but the Hurris did a number



In my first game (still running) I noticed that Zero fighters were doing fine against P40s, P39s and F4Fs but relatively bad vs the Hurricane (IIB, C). It stopped me from deploying the Navy in the North, making Burma an army only area untill 1944 somewhere..

Oscars seem to do better and Tojo's do fine against the Hurri..

Not sure what is causing it. Might be the man. of the Hurricane is decent and it gets a lot of shots (and with 12 MGs or 4 20mm makes it is deadly vs no armour, low durability aircraft)

In engaging LRCAP fatigue is an issue as well...




Q-Ball -> China Area Panzer Army (11/25/2012 2:32:32 PM)

I have also noticed the Hurri handles the Zero quite well. P-40 is OK, and P-39 is a bit behind. I'm not a huge fan of the P-39, but it's available in numbers, so I use it.

Allied aircraft production is starting to catch-up, though, so most of the P-39 should be gone in a couple months

11-15 to 11-21-42

China:

Big problems in China; he has broken into the Central Plain, so Chungking should be invested soon. I made a mistake not thinking that Tanks could move so quickly over rough terrain, my bad. But even so, he can move alot faster than I can, so not a ton I could do about it.

China is doomed anyway

[image]local://upfiles/6931/07865B348A944BCE803D74BC6056865A.jpg[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (11/25/2012 3:43:20 PM)

I think its time to start running for the hills. If you can take possession of the mountains you at least have a shot of getting them into supply sometime in the future. Better that then to be destroyed in the plains.




Q-Ball -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (11/25/2012 4:56:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I think its time to start running for the hills. If you can take possession of the mountains you at least have a shot of getting them into supply sometime in the future. Better that then to be destroyed in the plains.


By Houserule, Restricted units cannot cross national borders. So, the only units that can ever leave China are ones that I can "buy". I've done that for a few units to form a "Free Chinese Army" along the Burmese border; 2000-ish AV when they are fully built-up. Not much, but something.

But if I retreat into the mountains, they will just starve. Better to die in combat.





Chickenboy -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (11/25/2012 4:57:58 PM)

I guess that's a good thing about your Chinese units getting chewed to pieces? They're cheap to buy out at that point. [8D]




PaxMondo -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (11/25/2012 5:33:02 PM)

His tank units must have lousy supply ... 3 hexes of road and then two hexes of rough?  Getting there is only half the battle, he has to to keep them in supply. 

I'd keep the roads invested, get a couple of units in the hex with him ... chew up his organic supply.  armor units without supply are just like your units, except his losses are almost impossible to replace.  He can't get enough VEH points.  I would look to whittle his armor units down as much as you can ... even better send an almost dead unit to cut his supply line.  He's got nothing behind it.

He's gonna really wish he had all this armor in Burma in a couple of months ... 1000 AFV's, that has to be essentially all of his armor in one place and in clear terrain with fighter cover 5 hexes away ... lousy LRCAP range.  Some 4E's on ground attack would really ruin his day.




Q-Ball -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (11/30/2012 9:40:41 PM)

11-21-42 to 12-8-42

Obviously, awhile since I posted! Oops. I'll try to be more frequent.

China:

I think Pax was right on the supply issues; he has paused for now, but is bringing infantry into the plains where he made that breach. I am leaving blocking forces on the roads; I may as well, because there is no room for them in Chengdu or Chungking, which is where we will circule the wagons for the last stand.

At this point, the supply situation is so bad, I'm no longer flying supplies in; Ops losses on transports are too high.

On the road to Kunming, he has been stopped; I am flying supplies to this mountain redoubt, we may hold it long-term, who knows.

Horn Island, etc:

We took Merauke, and have landed base troops at Gove. I don't think he is going to contest me moving to Darwin, so we will once we have some aircover.

If nothing else, I am forcing him to build bases east of Ambon, as Taberfane is now size-5. It's getting attention for sure.

Australia:

Things have mostly been quiet in terms of action, but we are conducting a massive buildup in Australia, of just about everything.

I think Greyjoy is noticing, too, because he has sighted convoys moving around the southern tip of OZ. I want to confuse him as to my intentions, so I am still prepping units and moving ships around for alternate targets.

As part of that, I took the CVs into the Coral Sea, to demonstrate toward Milne Bay. We also launched 100 4Es to flatten Woodlark. All of this is just noise-making, but unfortunately, I paid the price!

WASP, as you can see ate 2 torps. So did IDAHO. Both should live, but IDAHO in particular irks me; that will make 7 BBs in the yard for various reasons, which is almost as many as in the IJN. Ouch!

Next Steps:

I considered a snap move, but the loss of WASP hurts, as it tilts things in his favor for a CV encounter. I am debating whether to move now, or wait until April 1943, when I will have advanced landing craft, more BBs, Hellcats, and a bunch of CVs coming in the event I lose some. The downside is that it gives him 3-4 more months to prepare. Decisions.....

[image]local://upfiles/6931/C5E6A5C636CF4692820D8B6477B5FC43.jpg[/image]




JocMeister -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/1/2012 7:15:57 AM)

Ouch, that hit on Wasp sucks. You certainly been unlucky with his subs so far. [:(]




Cannonfodder -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/1/2012 9:35:06 AM)

Unlucky that Wasp got hit, but by the looks of it you are lucky she didn't go down....




MAurelius -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/1/2012 12:13:00 PM)

exactly - I have seen Wasp go down with 1 TT hit as well




Q-Ball -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/1/2012 3:27:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Unlucky that Wasp got hit, but by the looks of it you are lucky she didn't go down....


When I opened the turn, I expected her to be nearly sinking........she's wounded, but I agree, not bad at all considering 2 TT and explosions.

Great damage control there.

12-8-1942:

The buildup in Australia continues, with units prepping for multiple targets. I haven't 100% fleshed out the plan, but I am working on preps that will get me there.

I had 3 divisions prepped for Port Moresby, but I am cancelling that. There are over 30,000 Japanese troops there, and I am not having difficulty moving ships through the Torres Strait. A bigger problem is that he can SEE whatever goes through the Torres Strait, but I would have to clear all of NG to solve that problem, which isn't happening.

Instead, I am considering a landing at more lightly-defended Milne Bay; this should force him to either evacuate PM overland, or leave all those troops stranded.

Northern Oz:

Recon shows Darwin is held by a single base force. The only troops there now are that unit, plus the SNLF unit I am kicking around toward Katherine. Pretty soon, we'll land troops and supplies at Darwin, and start to build this up into a base.

I am getting to the end of how far I can go under LBA, so that is a problem




Chickenboy -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/1/2012 5:03:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

WASP, as you can see ate 2 torps. So did IDAHO.


By submarine, I assume? Same one (sub) or different?




crsutton -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/1/2012 5:59:41 PM)

Wasp, just seems to die quickly in every game. A torpedo magnet. Hope he has not stacked some more subs in the area as Japanese subs seem to be very good at catching cripples. Your looking at a long trip home and then 4 months in the yard if she makes it. The BB will be in the yard even longer. They just take forever to repair.

In my campaign with Ark, I would say we have traded torpedoes on at least 30 to 40 CV and BBs but amazingly our subs have failed to put a capital ship under.

That is, except for my killing of the Yamato which fell to four torpedoes in three different sub attacks. One sub hit him at Yap and then another sub caught it on the way home near Iwo Jima. Two attacks in one phase with three hits. The only time an Allied sub has put multiple hits on a Japanese capital ship in over 1,000 turns. [:@]




witpqs -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/1/2012 6:05:51 PM)

Wasp is small enough to repair quite nicely at Sydney.




crsutton -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/1/2012 7:22:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Wasp is small enough to repair quite nicely at Sydney.


As long as you are not repairing anything else. I usually have up to a dozen smaller ships repairing or upgrading in Sidney at any given time.




Dan Nichols -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/1/2012 7:36:24 PM)

You do not have to have the ships in the shipyard to upgrade. The program will put some of them there, but you can move them to pier side repair with no problem and they repair at the same rate.




Q-Ball -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/2/2012 8:35:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Wasp is small enough to repair quite nicely at Sydney.


To answer Chickenboy, she was struck by 2 sub-launched TTs in the same salvo.

In this game, I have lost hardly any merchies to subs, but I have lost LOTS of capital ships. I have lost 2 undamaged BBs to subs within a turn (in both cases, 2 different attacks by the same sub). I lost another BB returning from Pearl; the ONLY ship that has seen an IJN sub between San Fran and Pearl the entire war. But losing NEW MEXICO and MARYLAND to subs, I have never seen that before, and as Japan I never cleanly sank anything larger than a CVE, ever. Just lucky I guess!

As for WASP, I am going to bring her to Sydney, and get a repair estimate; anything under 120 days, I'll leave her there. One thing, she isn't a big ship, so she repairs more like a cruiser than a large CV.




Q-Ball -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/4/2012 8:03:45 PM)

12-9-42 to 12-17-42

Buildup of Northern Australia:

There are alot of subs snooping around NE Oz, as well as planes. It's a good bet that Greyjoy is observing a buildup all over Australia, particularly NW OZ. I have been moving troops, supplies, and fuel to Port Hedland, to the point that it's a huge base, with lvl-6 port, 200K fuel, and over 600 Nav Support. Hard to miss that!

So no secret that I am planning a push into the Indian Ocean somwhere. That's a big territory to defend, though, so I still have options, and will still try to confuse him as to my ultimate objectives.

The other reason I know is that intel has given me several reports of troops movements or locations, enough to know that Roti and Waignapoe each have at least a Bde, and Timor is pretty stacked, with at least 2 divisions. Taberfane and Dobo have over 6K apiece on the other side of Darwin, and convoys are heading to Den Passar, Christmas Is, and Kendari. All in all, he is building in the DEI. I guess that makes sense.

I don't want to risk the CVs yet, so I am going to have to look for ways to advance under LBA, or with LBA support. That is extremely limited, but I do plan to advance north from Darwin, toward Babar and Samlauki, because those can be LRCAP (from Bathurst, when I get there)

Meanwhile, Australian Tanks have taken Katherine, and nearing Fenton, so we should have Darwin secured fairly soon.

Burma: I am stalled in Burma; he has a ton of guys there, and it's a good idea to defend the forward jungle. I can't bring enough right now to a single point to disodge him. Akyab is impregnible with stacking limits. It also doesn't help that I withdrew some troops from this theater for the Indian Ocean.

So, we are going to try to pin him. I do have an attack planned near Shwebo that I have some hope for, but not a ton. We'll see.

WASP: The repair estimate at Sydney is 118 days; just enough, I think, to leave her. Any more, and I would move it to the West Coast, but that's a 30-day trip, so I'll fix it in theater. All in all, not bad considering the severity of the hit; I was lucky.

IDAHO, with 41 Major Float Damage, will be departing for the West Coast, and probably 4-6 months of yard time.

China:

Oh, China. We finally have some aircover in China, at least at Kunming; I surprised him a couple days ago by basing 100 A/C there, shooting down 70 planes, including 35 Helens. Next day, he swept heavily with Tojos, shooting down a dozen of my planes for a loss of only 4. We rested, and will try again.

Not sure I can keep this up. The Allies should not get into an attrition war with planes, but I am deliberately using older types to go ahead and drain the pools; Hurricane I, P-400, P-40E, etc. I am hoarding P-40K for move into the DEI.

Otherwise, see below. This is a mess that will not hold much longer, maybe 60-90 days.

[image]local://upfiles/6931/0DBA5267F12D48C7A6231DDADFC194B6.jpg[/image]




Q-Ball -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/6/2012 10:28:48 PM)

12-18-42 to 12-21-42

Taberfane: I forgot to mention, a few days back we destroyed a convoy unloading what appeared to be an engineering unit at Taberfane. Greyjoy told me it was 2 units, and were engineers, not base force. All I know is engineers were seen in the sinking vessels. I sank these guys with the cruisers squadron I have in the Gulf of Carpentaria.

Almost immediately after this, two things happened.

First, a large surface force with "BBs" present anchored at Taberfane. If those truly are BBs, I can't tangle with them.

Second, a convoy that intel reported was headed to Christmas Island was heavily escorted by a cruisers force. I had hoped to jump with with a couple CAs out of Cocos, but I can't take them on without adequate nearby support.

He also has at least a CVE in the Indian Ocean; I know because Kates sortied and put a couple bombs on HMS CARADOC, who was out hunting for a picket ship I had spotted a couple turns back. CARADOC will live, but that's interesting he is out there with a CVE.

China/Kunming:

We have had several airbattles over Kunming. He is sweeping with Tojos, and we are trading 1 to 1, or even a little worse on my end. I don't think I can keep this up, a couple more turns and we'll throw in the towel. The reality is the Japanese have more planes than I do at this point, even though I am purposely using older types over Kunming (like Hurricane 1s)

On the Central Plains, the IJA is finally moving; I block all the roads, but he has plenty to knock me around. I have a number of units in the open because I don't have room for them in the cities, so they will get run-over by IJA tanks. It's bad!

Air Wars Elsewhere:

Over Burma, he is not contesting daily bombing runs on Akyab and Myiktinya. I can't really break thorugh on the ground, so I'm just burning his supplies at this point, and building GrndB skill. The other option is to go after Mandalay, where he has 200 fighters, but that is a tall order right now. I would lose alot of planes, and I can't afford a war of attrition.

The other point of contact is New Guinea. I have most of my 4E in NE Oz, and we are making bombing runs on the bases near the Torres Strait. Woodlark Is is rubble, and I am bombing Port Moresby as well. We hit Nadzab and Lae, though Nadzab we ran into some Zeros who shot down 5 P-38s. I am probably going to shift the 4Es once I have Darwin, but for now I want to keep these bases supressed if I move on Milne Bay, and also burn his supplies. At Port Moresby, in particular, getting a convoy there for him could get risky, which means he'll either have to move supplies from Buna, or not get any.

Quandary:

I am in a quandary, and can't decide what to do.

I am ready for a move into the DEI, and his preparations are likely not complete, but pretty far along in terms of using LBA. If all I was facing was LBA, I could make a move and take this to the next stage.

However, I am concerned about KB. Facing KB, with LBA backup, when all I have is carriers, would not go well. Greyjoy is smart enough to be able to focus his airpower quiclkly, and I know he has Air HQs all over, with a cluster of bases around each HQ. This is smart. So, any move can be greeted by massed LBA pretty quickly. I am not worreid about an IJA Air Fleet by itself; but couple that with KB, and that could be bad. Real bad.

If I go, I have to go soon, because after January I probably need to wait for the Dauntless groups to re-size, and I start getting Hellcats in March. Plus, APs upgrade to APAs. So, by April, I should be much better off, with lots of invasion shipping and modern planes, but the problem of course is that gives him another 3 months to dig and prepare.

Decisions, decisions......what do you think?




PaxMondo -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/7/2012 11:00:52 AM)

I think as the allies, you have to keep needling non-stop.  IJ intel sucks, so you can prep for anywhere you want and he will never get wind of it.  Dart in, invest a place, back out.  Keep his KB moving, burning fuel all the time. 

The allied timetable is both fixed and well known to both sides.  The problem for IJ is that it is very hard to disrupt that.  You want Guam by the time your B29's show up.  That gives you one axis of advance that initially needs little to no CV support.  You want to regain Burma, which you are already moving against.  Your troops upgrade in '43 with  alot of firepower gains, his don't.  He has to invest a LOT more ID's or the current stalemate ends with you taking Burma, and releiving your CHI forces.  Where can he get those ID's?  This leaves CentPAC and NorPAC to play with as you please, both being very dangerous to IJ as they are shorter routes to your goal.  IJ doesn't get all their garrisoning forces unti llate '44 -> '45.  Where are all of these forces going to come from in the meantime?

You've played the IJ a lot, you know all of this.  If he has a lot of assets in DEI, and with all of his army in CHI ... to me it means he is really thin everywhere else.  He has to be.  Not going after CHI like he is, you're thin at this as the IJ at this point.  He's used all of his Manchuria buyouts for CHI.  Make him pay for his CHI strategy.  Marshall's, Aleutians/North Kuriles, Wake/Marcus; all are on the table right now I think.  Not taking them all of course, just one here and there.  Invest with an ID, some engr's, and a lot (6 months) of supply, he can't take it back as all of his reserves are deep in CHI... two months away from an assault at best if he chooses.  And you know what it would take for the IJ to dislodge and allied ID in '43.  6xID?  More?  Can he get that? [;)]

The allied Armada doesn't arrive for another +9 months, so you can't go toe-2-toe.  But that doesn't mean you can't make it real hot for the IJ.

So stick and move.  Stick and move.  [;)]




JeffK -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/7/2012 8:46:51 PM)

Now you have GJ getting big numbers into Burma and seemingly spreading Brigades around a myriad of DEI bases, is it possible to start to drain off a Div or 2 from these areas and push him in another area.

From reading his game against rader I think GJ imagines the worst of everything, that his plans are flawed and his opponent is the Napoleon of the Pacific.

I reckon you could panic him out of some South Pacific islands.

Work on him[8D]




Retlaw -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/7/2012 10:34:31 PM)

I would remember why the Japanese started the war,It was to get FUEL. Troops anywhere cannot fight without supplies(need FUEL to move troops and/or supplies)weapons,Aircraft(need FUEL for HI points).
Station LR dutch and S boats from Australia around TRUK,the US boats(I use 3 equal 1 SS tf's in a hex to increase odds of a live hit prior to Sept 43)on his resource/oil/fuel/supply convoy routes to/from the HI and nail those convoys,this does 2 things:
1)Sunk Tankers(62 IJN TK's at start) hurt big ,AO's(17 IJN AO's at start) even worse!. The KB and mini KB, powerful as they are,cannot do anything without fuel,unless a AO TF is dragged behind which of course would severely limit the speed of any Striking TF.
2)If the convoys are escorted,then this dilutes the IJN combat power and or not send DD's with capital ships(very bad move).
3)Whenever you can, kill his AP's(67 IJN AP's at start) especially the big ones(>1500 troops,>10VP) ,this will restrict his ability to move large troop formations quickly. All of this will take 4-7 months of game time to really take effect.

On my first allied turn I shut off the refineries and refinery repair in Miri,Tarakan,Balakpan,Palambang,Merdan and Soerabaja,this way when the IJA/IJN take those places(which they will !!) there is little or no fuel left to use,do the same thing for the big 50k repair ship yards in Singapore and HK.(when the IJA take them after your engineers trash them,they are useless for 7-8 months unless the IJA/IJN spent HI points to repair them).
I load all the merchants in HK with fuel(load 50k out of 128k in fuel) before I try to run them to DEI and/or Australia/PM,again if they get sunk the fuel is gone,if not it can be used in Australia and PM.




MAurelius -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/7/2012 10:50:50 PM)


quote:


I load all the merchants in HK with fuel(load 50k out of 128k in fuel) before I try to run them to DEI and/or Australia/PM,again if they get sunk the fuel is gone,if not it can be used in Australia and PM.


quite a few might call that VERY gamey...




JeffK -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/7/2012 11:07:36 PM)

And its a bit late to try.




guytipton41 -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/7/2012 11:14:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MAurelius


quote:


I load all the merchants in HK with fuel(load 50k out of 128k in fuel) before I try to run them to DEI and/or Australia/PM,again if they get sunk the fuel is gone,if not it can be used in Australia and PM.


quite a few might call that VERY gamey...



Hi MAurelius,

A reasonable allied commander in HK says we can't hold this, let's get what is worthwhile out... seems to me you could WitPAEzen it.

For my part the time to load anything is time not running. Unless you have a "can't form TFs first turn" HR you might get some of those ships out.

Cheers,
Guy




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/7/2012 11:31:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: guytipton41


quote:

ORIGINAL: MAurelius


quote:


I load all the merchants in HK with fuel(load 50k out of 128k in fuel) before I try to run them to DEI and/or Australia/PM,again if they get sunk the fuel is gone,if not it can be used in Australia and PM.


quite a few might call that VERY gamey...



Hi MAurelius,

A reasonable allied commander in HK says we can't hold this, let's get what is worthwhile out... seems to me you could WitPAEzen it.

For my part the time to load anything is time not running. Unless you have a "can't form TFs first turn" HR you might get some of those ships out.

Cheers,
Guy


In my game all but a couple of the merchants in HK were sunk on the first turn before I entered a move. I would not have used a second of dwell time to load them with anything. They need to be running like the IRS is after them.

But if you DO want to load fuel, how is that possibly "gamey"? It's your fuel, they're your ships.




Chickenboy -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/7/2012 11:51:15 PM)

I've got no problems at all with the Allies loading whatever they want from any of their ports before their exodus. Fuel especially. A small fuel load, if lit off will ensure quick destruction of the vessel. As a JFB, I'm quite pleased to see self-lighting, self-sinking Allied vessels that burn to the waterline with the smallest penetrating hit.

A small price to pay for evacuating meaningless quantities of fuel, from the perspective of a JFB.




Crackaces -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/8/2012 12:30:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MAurelius


quote:


I load all the merchants in HK with fuel(load 50k out of 128k in fuel) before I try to run them to DEI and/or Australia/PM,again if they get sunk the fuel is gone,if not it can be used in Australia and PM.


quite a few might call that VERY gamey...



I might say that gamey is defined by the contestents. I can say although that the very wide chasim of that Witp AE is not a similation and is a game -- to some mythical set of realities ends up ruining a game. It is why I like the Moose's contest .. so it shall be said .. so it shall be done :)




PaxMondo -> RE: China Area Panzer Army (12/8/2012 2:50:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Retlaw

3)Whenever you can, kill his AP's(67 IJN AP's at start) especially the big ones(>1500 troops,>10VP) ,this will restrict his ability to move large troop formations quickly.

IJ can convert space on all of its xAK's to troop space. Kyushu's are as fast as most of the AP's and so are two fo the Yusen's. I rarely build any AP's. Plenty of replacements. Same with TK's; several classes of xAK's convert to TK's.




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