Empire corruption eye opener (Full Version)

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Jeeves -> Empire corruption eye opener (6/20/2012 6:58:30 AM)

I had noticed that I wasn't making much progress in victory conditions, so I went to war with the Gizureans to get their ship maintenance discount. I followed that up by taking on the nearby Hakonish since they were very near the Gizurean home and had a diabolical reputation. What to my surprise, my revenue dropped as I conquered colonies. But the REAL eye opener was when I conquered the Hakonish home world and my revenue actually DROPPED. Well that led me to recall that there is something called empire corruption, quite distinct from the reported colony corruption when looking at a colony. I used the colony screen to add up the sum of all of my colony revenues, and the total was 1.49 times as great as the empire summary screen revenue. Well that was a puzzler, until I noticed that way of ancients gives a 20 percent corruption reduction, and my leader gave another 10 percent. I have 79 colonies at this point and 1.49 = 1 + (79-10-20)/100. Well well WELL!

Empire corruption correction to divide revenue by = 1 or 1+ (number of colonies minus government and leader corruption reductions)/100, whichever is more.

Which means that the best leader for large empires is not one with a corruption reduction trait, but one with an increasing corruption reduction SKILL.

When planning your empire expansion, take that corruption into account, otherwise you may find yourself unable to meet victory conditions without wholesale slaughter of other empires. As it is in my game with an 80% of 43/43/43 victory condition I have three home worlds and MUST take at least six home worlds and very little else to get victory.

I think if I can't get victory after six, I'll provoke the Ketarovs into war and let them instigate revolts. So long as I kept home worlds, the rump of my empire may get corruption reduced enough to put me over the top.

I wish I could give away some of the independents I conquered. Oh well, next game I will know better.

Lonnie Courtney Clay




jpwrunyan -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/20/2012 11:50:10 AM)

Uhm, no?[&:]
Corruption drops revenue but not below zero. So a newly conquered colony cant sink your bottom line.
Thats been my experience. Please elaborate more concretely. Like I said, I have never seen corruption drive colony revenue into the red. If I am incorrect I would like to see the evidence.

I suspect rather that the colonies you conquered had their quality reduced below 50% which might make your colony revenue negative. But even then I doubt it would be enough to notice. So I dont know what is happening but I doubt it is due to corruption. Anyway, please prove me wrong.




Beag -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/20/2012 2:17:18 PM)

How the hakoonish got that reputation? They are such nice froggies most of the time... Bombardment perhaps?




Jeeves -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/20/2012 3:52:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beag

How the hakoonish got that reputation? They are such nice froggies most of the time... Bombardment perhaps?


They bombarded Gizurean colonies until I stepped in, and deprived them of their prey. They enslaved Securans in a penal colony. They conquered independents (8 of them). Finally, and this is the most important, once I arrived on the scene with ultra long range scanners to detect pirates, I killed every single pirate base within range of detection before they could reach it.

To the other guy, lets put it this way. Empire corruption CAN reduce total revenue when a new colony is conquered. Do the math :
My government and leader corruption reduction is 30, other player's values may vary, but the upshot is that the bigger your empire, the more you need a very good leader corruption reduction skill. Plugging in 30,

Empire Revenue # 1 = base from colonies / (1 + (#colonies-30)/100)
Empire Revenue # 2 = (base from colonies + new revenue) / (1 + ((#colonies +1)-30)/100)
If empire revenue #2 is one less than empire revenue #1, then :

1 = base from colonies / (1 + (#colonies-30)/100) - (base from colonies + new revenue) / (1 + ((#colonies +1)-30)/100)

Simplifying :
1 =bfc *100/ (70 + #) - (bfc+new)*100/(71+#)
.01*(70+#)*(71+#) = bfc*(71+#) - (bfc+new)*(70+#)
(bfc+new)*(70+#) = bfc*(71+#) - .01*(70+#)*(71+#)
new = [bfc*(71+#) - .01*(70+#)*(71+#)]/(70+#) - bfc
lets plug in 78 for # and 7200k for bfc revenue, then
new = [7200*149- .01*148*149]/148 - 7200 =
new = [1072800 - 220.52]/148 - 7200 = 47.15
In other words, adding just one colony of 47k revenue to an empire of 7200k revenue as the 79th colony will DROP revenue for the empire by one due to empire corruption.

Let me save before the computer glitches, I'll be right back with an edit...

Lonnie Courtney Clay
Edit : fixed typos

Edit 2 :
Before conquering the Hakonish, I had 71 colonies at revenue corrected for corruption of 6969k so my bfc was (141/100)*6969=9826k

At this point in the game, I have 79 colonies at 7180 revenue corrected for corruption, uncorrected = 10698k.

Adding a home world of revenue 864k along with 7 other colonies totaling a few dozen revenue was less than necessary to overcome the increased COLONY corruption on my empire, which is a whole different kettle of fish. I got a net of 8k from non home world colonies of the Hakonish empire when the loss due to corruption on my other colonies was taken into account. At this point the Hakonish home world development is only 79 of 105, so time will heal that and make it much better.

Do the math in your own game, looking back at your empire's revenue at colonies over the correction factor for corruption reduction.

Lonnie Courtney Clay




Beag -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/20/2012 5:05:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeeves


They bombarded Gizurean colonies until I stepped in, and deprived them of their prey. They enslaved Securans in a penal colony. They conquered independents (8 of them). Finally, and this is the most important, once I arrived on the scene with ultra long range scanners to detect pirates, I killed every single pirate base within range of detection before they could reach it.



Thatīs kinda awesome, actually. Sure Iīve seen penal colonies sometimes, but never bombardment in scale.

I donīt have anything to contribute because I only play with 400 stars tops (so I still can manage most of the stuff myself), so the overall corruption is never large. In my current game I have some 20 colonies, just captured the Gizurean homeworld and revenue is OK - through my government is Way of Overpowered, I mean Ancients [;)]




ScottenChi -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/20/2012 6:35:11 PM)

I guess I never realized that bombardment effected your reputation, either. I use it off and on -- mainly when my enemy's homeworlds have WAY too many troops to beat.




jpwrunyan -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/21/2012 4:18:53 AM)

Wtf?
You are proving exactly what I was saying. You made 6969k at 71 colonies and it went up to 7180k at 79 colonies. Your revenue did not go down, which is what I was saying. Your bottom line cannot decrease due to corruption. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you trying to say your average revenue went down per colony? What math would you suggest I do?

Anyone else feel free to jump in here and explain what I am missing.




Jeeves -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/21/2012 1:09:38 PM)

I suppose I misspoke in my orignal post, because the revenue DID go down until the 19 day update of finances took place at census update. But I got a net of far less than the amount of revenue shown by the colony display due to empire corruption. When you play a game with a large number of colonies in your empire you will see what I mean. If you never get more than a couple dozen colonies then you probably don't need to worry about it at all.

Lonnie Courtney Clay




jpwrunyan -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/22/2012 7:26:55 AM)

No worries. I still want to clarify a few things though. Are you talking about government revenue or private sector revenue? Because I've been assuming gov revenue. Also, are you saying corruption is a function of colony count? Because I thought corruption was based only on distance of colony from capitol and/or regional capitol.
I dont have the galactopedia nor time to check, which is why I ask. And indeed I rarely exceed 20-30 colonies in my games (i dislike scrolling).




Jeeves -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/22/2012 3:07:01 PM)

I am talking about civilian revenue, before taxes. The colony summary shows only colony corruption, which is based on distance from a capital and population at the colony. I THINK your total empire population also influences colony corruption, but I am not certain. The empire corruption is based upon how many colonies are in your empire as specified above. If you have only 20-30 colonies in your games then chances are that you have never encountered empire corruption, because your leader and government permit 20-30 colonies without empire corruption. I like to play colossal empires dominating the map. Unfortunately it has been over a year since I got to the massive stage in a game before starting another due to an update to the game. I am a micro-managing very slow player. This game has taken me a couple of months to play into the eleventh year and reach the conquest of other empires stage.

Lonnie Courtney Clay




jpwrunyan -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (6/23/2012 4:19:01 AM)

Aha, I see where I got confused. I didnt realize colony corruption and empire corruption were two separate entities. So because of empire corruption private sector revenue could actually drop?
Colony corruption just takes a % of revenue at that colony so 100% corruption would reduce revenue to 0 but never cause negative revenue there--this is what I mistakenly thought you were contradicting.
But when totalling empire revenue after that, empire corruption takes a second slice out of the pie and it is possible to lose money here. Let me know if I got any if that wrong.




vonboy -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (7/13/2012 4:04:04 AM)

I think he's saying that when he added the new colony, corruption increased a small amount at all of his other colonies, and that combined loss was more than the revenue he got from the new colony.

Is that right?




Jeeves -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (7/13/2012 6:31:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonboy

I think he's saying that when he added the new colony, corruption increased a small amount at all of his other colonies, and that combined loss was more than the revenue he got from the new colony.

Is that right?


Righto - empire corruption hits ALL of your colonies. I have more data available now and the formula seems not quite correct, but the fact remains - too many colonies will get you into trouble if economic victory conditions are set.

Lonnie Courtney Clay




ScottenChi -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (7/13/2012 5:28:49 PM)

Would your empire's Population Policy affect this? Wouldn't killing all those pesky alien scum reduce corruption?

I've never set a policy like that because then everyone hates you, but it sounds like something fun to try.




Jeeves -> RE: Empire corruption eye opener (7/14/2012 6:09:06 AM)

Corruption has nothing to do with the race of the colonists.

Lonnie Courtney Clay




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