HQ and supply distance (Full Version)

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A game -> HQ and supply distance (6/17/2012 6:55:57 AM)

Question re: Hqs supplying a unit:

I have been wondering is it best to have the HQ as close to the railhead, low MPs etc and the units being supplied at maximum 5 hexes from HQ,

or the HQ next to or on top of the units being supplied but then further from a railhead...

So I guess my question is, does the distance between the HQ and the unit being supplied matter?

Basically Im wondering if panzer Hqs should hug their attached units or be back as close to railhead as possible while staying within 5 hexes of the units..




kg_1007 -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/17/2012 4:05:31 PM)

In my experience thus far, it is better for supplying the HQ, to keep it close to the railhead, but it will not supply its units if they are too far from it.




Balou -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/17/2012 4:25:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: A game

Question re: Hqs supplying a unit:

So I guess my question is, does the distance between the HQ and the unit being supplied matter?



Keep units within 5 hexes of their parental HQ (goes for clear weather).




gregorit -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/17/2012 5:03:30 PM)

The question being asked is really about WHERE in the 5 hex range does one want the HQ, with the combat unit or on a railhead 5 hexes away. I myself have often wondered this; the quick test is to try it out by playing out both situations and see which HQ location results in the combat units getting the most MPs.




Baron von Beer -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/17/2012 7:14:38 PM)

Just for completeness, remember that it's 5 hexes AND 20mp. From what I have seen they are separate requirements, IE 5 hex radius, even if the actual clear route is >5 but <20 MP. Eg opposite sides of a pocket.

According to this rule, one would assume closer to the railhead for the HQ is better, at least if the HQ has previously moved.

"Units that have moved in the previous turn will only draw a percentage of what they require
that is equal to 100 - (length in MPs to supply source - 5). This percentage modifier will never
to be less than 25 percent nor more than 100 percent, but will be in effect for both supply
sub-segments."




gregorit -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/17/2012 7:22:58 PM)

Nice citation, Baron.

What this would imply is that:
* As long as you are within 5 MP of the supply source, you'll draw 100% of what you need.
* This would apply to HQs AND it's assigned units. My understanding is that supply goes to the HQ and then it is sent to its formations.

(Clearly, however, there are other rules that apply, otherwise a unit that doesn't move will automatically draw what it needs.)




Baron von Beer -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/17/2012 8:28:54 PM)

Yes, there are further rules.Eg: HQ with >50% of vehicle requirement or within 10MP of rail can get more than their supply requirement. HQs, and units outside of HQ range but within rail, must be within 25 hexes & 100mp to draw supply at all. "Full" supply from rail is within 25mp/10 hexes. Units drawing from rail instead of HQ will draw "Significantly fewer supplies" than if from their HQ. And of course the physical amount available on the grid plays its role.

Excess vehicles in the motor pool also benefit supply draw in that second (from railhead) supply sub-segment. And then to finally ensure our eyes are crossed, if they aren't already, there is the axis rail modifier of... [:D]

"((168 + (5 times the number of months from December 1941, but not to be a negative
number)/weather adjustment) - x coordinate of unit)) + ((y coordinate of unit -69)/2))/100. This
modifier can never be less than .33 or greater than 1.0."




Michael T -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/17/2012 10:12:59 PM)

The OP's question cannot be answered simply. There are so many different situations that a general rule of thumb is not possible. In a perfect situation you are better off having the HQ as close to the railhead as possible. But there are many factors/complexities that can change this. Just one example, is it better to get an extra 5-10% supply or have your HQ within range (for support) for a planned attack next turn?




A game -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/20/2012 3:55:56 AM)

Thanks for the answers, but to clarify my original question: is the distance between the HQ and its attached units a factor in supply? So is there any difference between for example: a corps HQ being the maximum 5 hexes from its attached units or being next to them?

I'm assuming as long as the unit is "in supply" with its HQ it recieves the full amount regardless of distance?




elmo3 -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/20/2012 12:36:05 PM)

The unit must be within both 5 hexes and 20 MP's. Whether, for example, it's 4 hexes and 10 MP's or 3 hexes and 15 MP's makes no difference. The only distinction that I know of is that if the unit is adjacent to the HQ but more than 20 MP's it will still be eligible for full supply. Of course that assumes the HQ is within the required distance of a railhead, otherwise the HQ won't get full supply. In that case the unit can attempt to draw supply directly from the railhead as well in the second supply phase.

Bottom line is that anyone who really wants to understand tracing and receiving supply should read section 20.4 carefully.




heliodorus04 -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/20/2012 1:43:38 PM)

An example first:
You have one HQ with two motorized units attached.
The HQ is 5 hexes and 5 MP from railhead.
Both motorized are 3 MP and 3 hexes from the HQ, and they are, in fact, in the same hex.
One unit, we'll call it MU1, has a morale of 95.
The other, MU2, has a morale of 75.

In this sort of case, I would expect that MU1 would receive more fuel and achieve more MP at turn start than MU2.
Even despite supply distances, unit status itself (experience, fatigue, morale, and percentage of vehicles) will cause variation even when two units under one HQ are in the same hex.

I'm surprised to hear Elmo say that it does not matter whether your subordinate units are 3 hexes/15 MPs from the parent HQ or 1 hex/1 MP. Frankly, I don't believe Elmo is precise in saying so, because I've never, ever seen two units under 1 HQ that share a hex together receive the same amount of supply. But, he may be speaking completely truthfully and my point about morale/experience/fatigue may be the whole explanation for the MP differences.





elmo3 -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/20/2012 3:38:40 PM)

I'll try to get a clarification on that from the devs.




Grungar -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/21/2012 4:34:06 AM)

I have found that keeping your hq on or next to the rail head and your units not colored red will make your supply pip green very quickly if you are the soviet. I have no idea yet of german problems but i imagine that they just get supply a bit slower at times if setup as i said.




elmo3 -> RE: HQ and supply distance (6/21/2012 6:34:11 PM)

Confirmed with the devs that as long as you are within the 5 hex and 20 MP trace range there is no advantage to being closer when getting supplies.




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