Random Weather (Full Version)

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notenome -> Random Weather (6/9/2012 11:51:49 PM)

As some have mentioned, random weather is a little too random right now. As such I'd like to suggest the following modifications:

Basically, no snow in May, no blizzards in October, increased chance of Mud on Mud months and increased chance of clear skies at the top of the table. Also I'd suggest that the European Weather Zone, instead of being the base for the table, be -2. Though I realize European weather includes Hungary, the Crimea, Romania and other places with poor road conditions (at the time). The brunt of fighting in this zone would naturally occur in Germany and Poland, where Rasputsia wasn't a problem, so the chance of mud should be vastly decreased there.


[image]local://upfiles/33636/40BBCCA5DCB647BFA28E7C9598D563D8.jpg[/image]




Rufus T. Firefly -> RE: Random Weather (6/10/2012 5:42:29 AM)

+1

In a perfect world the weather table ought to be user definable in the editor rather than hard coed (EDIT: that's hard coded, nice Freudian slip[:D]) and there should also be intermediate forms of weather. added. I also like the idea of more weather zones.

There's no way to get sometrhing like this currently into the game is there?




notenome -> RE: Random Weather (6/10/2012 7:01:10 AM)

Any change in the game has to be either moded or very easy to include as WitE is now second priority next to WitW. That's why I suggest a random weather table modification, as its the easiest to include.




delatbabel -> RE: Random Weather (6/11/2012 7:27:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: notenome
no snow in May


Have you ever been to Russia?

It frequently snows there in May, FYI, certainly in the northern parts.




Rasputitsa -> RE: Random Weather (6/11/2012 11:25:05 AM)

I don't want to get into a discussion on Global Warming/Climate Change, but the 1940s was a particularly cold period, so any weather data needs to be set for 1940s conditions, there have been warmer and further cold periods since then, so choosing the right data is important.[:)]




jaw -> RE: Random Weather (6/11/2012 1:06:05 PM)

Your table still misses what I think is the important thing about modeling weather: Once weather improves it won't deteriorate until the season changes and once it deteriorates it won't improve until the season changes again. Therefore once you get the first Clear weather turn of Spring you shouldn't get Mud again till Fall. Once you get the first Mud turn in Fall, you shouldn't get Clear weather again until Spring and the following turn should only be more Mud or Snow. A Snow turn can be followed by another Snow turn, Mud (if still Fall or early Spring) or Blizzard. A Blizzard turn should only be followed by another Blizzard turn (assuming its Winter) or Snow.

Remember that with week long turns and weather zones covering thousands, if not tens of thousands of square miles, we are not talking about daily weather effects but rather seasonal changes. If the simple rules outlined above were incorporated into the weather table, weather could still be "random" without being unnaturally chaotic.




cavalry -> RE: Random Weather (6/11/2012 4:15:09 PM)

This is a good idea. Its all far to changeable s of now and i hope something happens.
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cpt flam -> RE: Random Weather (6/12/2012 8:14:53 AM)

+1
this would be a great step forward[8D]




Schmart -> RE: Random Weather (6/12/2012 5:56:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: notenome
Basically, no snow in May, no blizzards in October...


Yeah, as others have mentioned, spending some time in northern climates (even nowadays), one realizes that snow is possible pretty much 12 months of the year, although snow in June, July, and August doesn't last long and is probably more like 'Mud' than 'Snow'.

Blizzards in October? A little far fetched but still possible October through April, I'd say.

I think the weather model could use some tweaks, but I was thinking more long the lines of smaller, more multiple weather zones or sub-zones, so that changing (or freak) weather in fall and spring would be more localized and gradual.

EDIT:
quote:

Any change in the game has to be either moded or very easy to include as WitE is now second priority next to WitW. That's why I suggest a random weather table modification, as its the easiest to include.


If it's too much to code a significant change, then something like this will have to do in the meantime.




notenome -> RE: Random Weather (6/13/2012 6:25:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jaw

Your table still misses what I think is the important thing about modeling weather: Once weather improves it won't deteriorate until the season changes and once it deteriorates it won't improve until the season changes again. Therefore once you get the first Clear weather turn of Spring you shouldn't get Mud again till Fall. Once you get the first Mud turn in Fall, you shouldn't get Clear weather again until Spring and the following turn should only be more Mud or Snow. A Snow turn can be followed by another Snow turn, Mud (if still Fall or early Spring) or Blizzard. A Blizzard turn should only be followed by another Blizzard turn (assuming its Winter) or Snow.

Remember that with week long turns and weather zones covering thousands, if not tens of thousands of square miles, we are not talking about daily weather effects but rather seasonal changes. If the simple rules outlined above were incorporated into the weather table, weather could still be "random" without being unnaturally chaotic.



I by no means think my table is perfect, just the line of some general tweaks I thought the table could use. However I do disagree with the seasonal changes bit. After taking Minsk AGC was paralyzed for about a week (this would be turn 3) because of spring thunderstorms. When the storms passed the weather cleared and stayed fairly clear until the rasputsia (in AGC's zone of operations). Rauss also spent about a week isolated due to mud on his bridgehed across the Luga (though I don't remember if that mud was caused by storms or Kampfgruppe Rauss's own vehicle churning the road into mud when they passed through them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

Have you ever been to Russia?

It frequently snows there in May, FYI, certainly in the northern parts.



Whilst it does snow in Russia in May, what the game defines as snow, and the breadth of snow necessary to have an impact on the game, is beyond that. To use a metric, are rivers in Russia thawing or freezing in May? Because on a snow turn the ice level goes up, whereas on a mud turn it goes down. Therefore I think that May snows are better represented as a Mud turn (in terms of their impact) than a snow turn. And that's not even mentioning the Ukraine. Also, was there widespread snow in May (on the scale consistent with WITE) during WWII?

Furthermore:



[image]local://upfiles/33636/D7FD8EFD032946ABA69084DA51A1FD7C.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: Random Weather (6/13/2012 6:30:01 AM)

And futhermore:



[image]local://upfiles/33636/2BA5191334EA4541A907AC6C4424D04B.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: Random Weather (6/13/2012 6:35:38 AM)

Still furthermore:



[image]local://upfiles/33636/C3AC69E0F72A42D69382263F8541187B.jpg[/image]

As we can see from the figures presented, whilst it does snow in May, that snow is usually mixed with rain and thus contributes to soggy conditions (in game terms: mud) as the temperature is above freezing and the snow does not come down in sufficient numbers to form a layer above the soil. The conditions for a snow turn (which would require below freezing temperatures or else the snow melts and sufficient quantity of snow to form a frozen layer above the topsoil are absent, and this without addressing the game currently makes it possible for there to be May snows in the Ukraine, which would render traditional Ukrainian agriculture impossible.




notenome -> RE: Random Weather (6/13/2012 6:46:06 AM)

Couldn't resist.

[image]local://upfiles/33636/3F839416DA80441F9C671E01DA0EF0BD.jpg[/image]




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