RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (Full Version)

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khyberbill -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (6/30/2012 6:56:49 PM)



There comes a point when you have an excess of PP's and not much to buy so I buy out the fighters as soon as I can afford too and the others when the PP's start to add up. I have been down this sorry road many times!

BBfanboy -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (6/30/2012 7:14:42 PM)

Speed and ceiling stats are only part of the story - the Hellcat is much more durable than the Tojo and will take them down in droves if pilot skill is comparable.

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (6/30/2012 9:57:37 PM)

Iīll buy out the fighters as soon as possible! Need to save the PPs at the moment until I know if I have to buy out the 23rd Indian ID. Does anyone know if the withdrawal dates would still remain for the DB groups if the are "resurrected"?

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (6/30/2012 10:08:05 PM)


ORIGINAL: Historiker


I hear you! Problem is that my escorts get chewed up in each strike! I loose about 20-30 P40s each time I hit the oilfields. I canīt really afford that right now. His Tojos are really nasty and he has lots and lots of them. Thats what I meant about not being able to close them all!

That's why you don't start your suppression campaign with Magwe! [;)]
The other hexes are maybe LR-CAPing Magwe, they may draw some fighters for an intercept or they aren't protected. All is fine, because each tim, you take out an airfield which can't use for timblerigging any more.

You go after the airfields, not after the planes! The planes will come as a byproduct, but right now, you don't care whether he has 5.000 fighters - if they are far away!

You don't go for PM as long as you don't know the KB is far, far away, of course!

I have tried sweeping several times. He usually gets about 50-80 fighters airborne over the other bases as well. Iīm guessing he is using CAP with a range setting of 1-2. So right now I canīt afford the losses. Iīm open for suggestion though! I have 250 bombers with nothing to do! That canīt be right? Right? [;)]

Historiker -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/1/2012 12:29:11 AM)


ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Iīll buy out the fighters as soon as possible! Need to save the PPs at the moment until I know if I have to buy out the 23rd Indian ID. Does anyone know if the withdrawal dates would still remain for the DB groups if the are "resurrected"?

It should just reactivate the same device. So yes, it'll keep the same withdrawl dates.

When you have plenty, then risk them and accept the losses. Even if he shoots down a bunch while defending a well stacked airfield - you still close it down and kill plenty on the ground. Those planes are there to fly, and those pilots are there to dies (psst, don't tell them! [:-])

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/1/2012 7:10:07 AM)

Thats the weird thing... I have yet to kill a single fighter on the ground. I guess since they are all airborne on CAP they donīt get destroyed.

Historiker -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/1/2012 11:57:55 AM)

With the service damage after an attack, not all will be airborne again. So you'll get them with more attacks. It seems you always stop your attacks too early. [;)]

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/1/2012 12:07:15 PM)


ORIGINAL: Historiker

With the service damage after an attack, not all will be airborne again. So you'll get them with more attacks. It seems you always stop your attacks too early. [;)]

Well, I might be! But obvert is a smart fellow and since all bases are on railways Iīm pretty certain he rails them out to rangoon if they are stuck in a base! [:D]

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/11/2012 11:41:25 AM)

While waiting for a turn from Erik I decided to do a short update.


The units in Burma is slowly getting into position to the hex NW of Katha. The total AV will be somewhere around 2500 and among them 3 armoured brigades. I revised the forces a bit since I felt mainland India was a little bit to weakly defended. So the 2nd British will be in reserv for the operation instead and the two Indian divisions slated for the task. They will instead continue to guard mainland India. I also have the 9th OZ division arriving in India shortly to form a strategic reserve incase Erik tries something funny.

In 8 days everything will be in place. I hope this will be a nasty suprise to him. Amazingly I still donīt think he has spotted the troops?! He will surly not be able to keep on to Katha and Myitkyina if I can get supply going. I have a feeling he has sent too much to the SoPac area and Burma is underdefended. We will find out shortly! He does have the ability to move troops from China if he can buy them out though.

I discovered a few days ago he had started to rebuild the oil at Magwe so I sent in the bombers escorted by 75 of the craptastic P40E. They suffered badly but saved most of the bombers. But 55 P40 lost stings a bit. Pool is running very low. Luckely I only lost 7 pilots! Unfortunantly severe storms hampered the strike and the results were discouraging and the oil were only knocked down to 25 from 35. His 150 Tojos just eats everything I throw at them alive. He lost 7 of them...

In Sopac I still hold on to Tanna by a straw. He has moved some Tojos down there with predictable results. I lost some 50 P39 in his first sweep. God I hate the bloody Tojos. After that I sent in some F4Fs and 25 P38s which did a little bit better but I still had to withdraw after a day of combat. But atleast the losses wasnīt totally in vain. I got 2 marine defense battalions in place unmolested. Predictable enough Eric sent the KB in as soon as he realised what was going on as he has done throughout the game. This is something I hope to take advantage of some day!

If anyone has ANY idea at all what to do about his Tojos I would be glad to hear them. The only thing I have that can get even close to matching them are the P38 and the whooping 20 per month I get will run out fast if I go toe to toe with him. Cosairs have started arriving but from what I have read here on the forum they arnīt much good in AE?

Shipping is on its way to start building up bases.

Getting supply to Tennant Creek looks like a no go. I will continue to to build it up and see if I can get ANYTHING going here. AF is sizze 7 and forts on its way to size 4 but I canīt get anything flowing here from Alice Springs which have 105.000 supply.

Iīve also stepped down army fighter training a bit for now. I have 1100 in the pool right now all trained to 50/70/50. So I started filling the training squadrons with trained pilots to do CAP missions and build EXP. I also sent a bunch of pilots from my non essential front line squadrons back to the pool and filled them with green pilots to build up EXP on cap missions. Mainly in OZ/PH/WC which has seen no action for almost 6 months.

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/14/2012 11:49:34 AM)

Erik has just moved apartments and I find myself waiting for turns again. So again a small update on Burma.

Here is the situation:


As you can see Erik discovered a few days ago that my troops were moving through the jungle and has reacted strongly. Iīm very happy with his reaction since he has almost emptied out central Burma. He has concentrated at Katha but I still donīt think he has enough there to stop me. Iīm confident most of his combat troops are Thai units. I also have brough alot of artillary and tanks to help out!

The last two days has for the first time seen the Allies come out on top in the Burma Airwar. On the 22nd he started bombing my troops and on the 23rd I intercepted them shooting down 21 Helens and 16 Tojos for only 3 Hurris. Very happy with that. Hopefully that was some of the pilots from his bombings in China. He has lost some 40 Helens the last few days. Many to flak from the 23rd AA Bde (Thank you Michael for the tip on that unit [:)]!) He keeps on coming so he must really be deperate to slow me down. The bombing havnīt had any noticable effect that I can see besides the 2nd Brit Div being bumped from "move" to "combat" at one point.

I think I really cought him off guard on this one and he admitted in an email he thought it would be a while yet before I would move in Burma. This might end up a huge fiasco but it still feels good doing something besides clicking "end turn" and waiting for 43 to pass. Worst case I just have to withdraw back to India. This atleast gives the benefit of Erik having to split his airforce in Burma a bit. He canīt stop protecting his airfields in Central Burma of I would quickly close them forcing his airforce to far south.

Iīve started moving a division and 2 bdes down the coastal road. This is just a feeler since he might have emptied central Burma. If it looks promising I will shift the 18th Brit and 9th Oz down here aswell. Recon is really busy in the North but I will try and recon the central bases to see if they really are that empty.

My gut feeling is still that he has sent way to much down to SoPac. I know he has 1 div on Anatom and 1 div in Noumuea. Probably 1 more in Carnarvon. I also think he has atleast a division in PM and since he has been using Tulagi as a major base he should have some big formation there aswell. Rabaul will probably have a division aswell? My knowledge of the Jap OOB is almost nil. What divisions should I keep an eye out for? How many unrestricted divisions are there available for the Jap player in early 43? Any imput on this would be greatly appriciated! [:)]

To strenghten my belive I spotted some activity around Nomouea and PM. Could he be trying to extract the divsions he has there to move them to Burma?

EDIT: Spelling is hard...

Historiker -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/14/2012 11:58:40 AM)

How many divisions? I guess with China under his control, you might have to face up to 20 or 25 unrestricted divisions.

I'd prefer to draw him north into Burma. My German PBEM partner once found me landing at Moulmain cutting of the equivalent of 10 divisions in the north... [8D]

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/19/2012 6:08:33 PM)

Historiker, ouch. Thats a bit more then I had anticipated...

Have been out of town for three days and had hoped to find a turn waiting but no luck! [:(] So I decided to do a small update and ask for some advice.

Being away from the computer for a few days made me think through the overall strategic situation. I think my move in Burma really rattled him and I have now started thinking about doing an "all in" in Burma. The drawback of this would obviously be that he could do the same thing and focus in Burma alone. But that might not be so bad given my lack of CVs? If I forced him to empty out Sopac/Centpac a bit it would make it easier and quicker to assault there in mid 44.

I could almost immediately send:

7th Oz div. Americal, 24th, 25th, 32nd, 37th and 43rd US. Obviously a huge pile of armour, baseforces and other support would be sent there aswell. With them I could send about 200 Army fighters, 120 2Es and 200 4Es. Theese troops had been earmarked for an attack up through SoPac. SoPac is still doable but very hard without CV support.

Even if I used all available shipping for the lift it would probably take about 4 months to get everything into India. It would also probably mean I will never make any advancements in SoPac. Centpac will be middle of 44 at its earliest using Marines.

Is this stupidity? Advice would be very welcome! [:)]

If I decide not to the 43rd US InfDiv, 9th Oz are already on its way to India. I will also send 72 Navy fighters there. When they can upgrade to Hellcats they will help out the diminishing numbers of P38. The P40 is just so utterly useless against Tojos.

Tanna is starting to look secure. I have enought there now that he would need 3-4 divisions to dislodge me. As it looks now I find it unlikely that he will bother. I still see a lot of activity going on around Noumuea. Is he reinforcing or withdrawing?

In the Air the allies have done very well the last few days. I estimated he has lost a bit over 120 fighters in the last days for 38 allied fighters. A good number! Most of the kills were from me closing down Noumuea and Anatom with 4Es though. More fighters are now stuck there I guess! [:)]

The KB

For the first time in almost a year I have lost track of it! I donīt like the feeling at all. I see 3 reasons he has moved them from Tulagi:
1. Upgades in the HI. This is the most probable.
2. Rebasing to Singapore
3. Raiding/invading someplace

I would love if he rebased closer to India. He canīt really do anything with the KB there exept invade somewhere along India. That would be welcomed by me if he did but I find this unlikly.

As I wrote earlier, thoughts on the "All in Burma" tactics would be very welcome! In the AARs I have read I havnīt seen someone do it. That means its either brilliant or utterly stupid! [:D]

ny59giants_MatrixForum -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/19/2012 7:03:29 PM)

I would limit the amount of American troops I sent to India/Burma. I would send some of your Australian armor units (Armored Rgt and Cav Bde) along with some large AA units. I would want to push into Burma's central plains and the clear terrain. Let him come after your units with his Helens and watch that damn AA eat them up. [:D] Don't focus on the low Assault Value (AV) of the armor units as they carry much more than just AV. AV is just the total number of units with either Anti-Soft and/or Anti-Armor values. Next time you open the game, hit the "D" button to pull up the database. Look at some of the Anti-Soft and Anti-Armor values of your various squads. Most of your CW (Commonwealth - Brits, Indian, Aussie) have the '43 version of the infantry squads available in 2/43 or 3/43. Look at how their Anti-Armor values go from 15 to 75.[X(] Their Anti-Soft shows a slight increase of maybe 2 or 3.

Now, hit the "I' button. Then in the lower right hand corner, the Industry/Troop/Resource Pool button. In the far right column, you will need to say "Y" to "Stockpile" the Ind Inf Sec 43 (arrives at 60/mo starting in 3/43) and Brit Inf Section 43 (arrives at 12/mo starting in 2/43). If you break down a common Indian Infantry Division into A, B, and C combat commands, you will see that there are 72 Ind Inf Sections and 36 Brit Inf Sections. Thus, it will not be until 5/1/43 that you have enough of the Brit Inf Section '43 to upgrade 1/3 of an Indian Infantry Division. The good thing is once you reach this threshold, the rest of the division can be done in a few more days. You need to have the division divided into thirds at a base with over 20k supply and with a Command HQ. Place the "A" in "Rest" with "Replacements On" and "Upgrade Allowed" selected. As a side note, you will have to go through each individual unit or hit the "G" button to bring up ALL ground units and toggle OFF "Allow Upgrades" for all units and then allow them for certain units now before these devices start to be produced. Once the "A" part of the division has upgraded, the old devices should go through the depot and get the new equipment and be ready to have the same thing happen for the "B" part of the division in a day or two (make sure the Japanese player has the the upgrade obsolete option on by hitting the "P button and checking the second group of options). So, the whole division should be done within a week. These steps need to happen this way or the AI will send these new devices to smaller units like BFs that have the allowed upgrade "On" along with the Stockpile option at "N" for these newer devices.

I say all this as you have reached early 43 and most of your divisions in India/Burma will need to go through this process. If you know how to do this already, then disregard (I do this with the Aussie units in early 42). But, there will be some newer players that don't. You will need to start to cycle some of your divisions through this process starting in 5/43 or before if they don't need the Brit Inf Section 43. Same thing holds for your Armor units.

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/20/2012 8:59:06 AM)

I actually already knew this so I might not be totally hopeless! I learned how to do this while trying to upgrade the Ozzie units! [:)]

But thank you nontheless! As you say its an aspect of the game all might not be familiar with. An important one aswell! I will also heed you advice on the US troops. Iīll limit the reinforcement to the 43rd. I would love to get the OZ armour to India but I canīt really afford the PPs right now. I have 2600 PPs in the pool but need a buffert of 2200 to buy out one of the Indian Divs if I need to reinforce the Katha operation.

Looks like Erik is withdrawing from Noumuea! Donīt know yet if this is good or bad. Either he is reinforcing Burma or he has realised he is a bit exposed in Sopac and simply withdrawing a bit. He has alot of troops still stuck on Anatom. Numbers have gone down a bit there. Must be flying them out.

ny59giants_MatrixForum -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/20/2012 12:00:18 PM)

I would still work at closing down the bases on Noumea from Suva and Australia with your B-17s and B-24s. You get the next model of B-24s very soon at a good rate to be able to do so. You can convert those APs to APAs in 3/43. So, you can see if Erik wants to keep KB down in the Luganville area fro a prolonged period or have it based at Tulagi. You can prep those many American divisions for some possible places you could invade in one or two days and run away before KB could get over to intervene.

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/29/2012 1:51:40 PM)

Been away on vacation for a week. Nothing but sun, ocean and massive amounts of beer and booze! [:)]

Micheal, yes I will certainly continue to try and keep them closed! He is now limited to flying sweeps from Ndeni. Its been a while since he tried that though. Could be a shortage of navy pilots? I have about 140 4Es continuesly closing his airfields. He lost a lot of airframes on the ground including a lot of Nicks.

He is definatly trying to get out of Noumuea! I actually nailed an extraction convoy a few days back! [:)]

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Noumea at 115,160

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 28

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 30
SBD-3 Dauntless x 37

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 5 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
APD Nadakaze, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
LSD Akitsu Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AK Sagami Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Huso Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Sakura Maru
xAP Teifu Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AMC Bankok Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
APD Shimakaze, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
638 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 28 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Pretty happy with that! Though my losses didnīt add up for some reason. Lost quite a few more DBs then is shown here. I think I lost around 12. Still a good result! DB groups were from 2 CVEs. I decided to pull the ships back to Sydney but keep the groups around since they are nice big ones with 28 in size.

I have the 1st Marine still prepped for Noumuea. Iīm considering doing an invasion to catch his remaining troops. But this is not an option as long as the whereabouts of KB is unknown.

I also have two army divisions prepped for Milne bay and two more prepped for Port Morsby. Iīm confident I could take both objectives if I could get the troops ashore. I donīt know if thats possible though. Its to far away for me to LRCAP. I could use my CVEs and CVLs to cover the invasion. Thats would be almost 100 fighters over the invasionarmada. I only need to be able to stay for one day. But this would have to rely on complete suprise which I think is impossible. It would also mean I would be boxed in against the East coast of OZ. I could amass about 400 fighters for protection but Iīm not sure that would be enough to deter an determained attack to get my ships. Iīm leaning against not trying for atleast a year but thoughts would be welcome!

Canton and Baker both have a Marine regement and two tank battalions each prepped and ready to go. Donīt know if that would be enough since he has about 6-8000 troops on each of the islands and both are outside my LBA by a far. So no aircover and only one bombardmentrun and then I would have to get the hell out. Donīt think this is possible without carrier staying power?

Caranvon. I decided to give it a go instead of moving for Darwin (proved impossible to draw supply north past Alice) using restricted OZ troops. I will have 800 AV guarding Geraldtown while all the armour available together with two restricted OZ divisions move up the road. Supply might be an issue. I will not divert any Sea or Airpower besides the FG already there to this. If he leaves its fine. If he stays I could reinforce with two divisions in reserve.

Troops have entered the rail west of Katha and are resting up fatigue. Also waiting for a division that had it movment reset for some reason. Supply is looking good! Big question is if I move for Katha as I earlier intended or move south. Iīm 80% sure I will go towards Katha so I have an easy way out if supply looks troubblesome.

Also messed up on my drive along the coast. Moved the wrong division! Grrr. Atleast it gave the armour a chance to catch up. This is still just a feeler with a division and two armoured brigades. No supporttroops or baseforces are yet allocated to this.

Major concern right now:

US army fighterpools are almost dry! The stupid, idiotic, worthless, craptastic P40s (Es and Ks) just die in droves whaterver you try to do with it. Even if I fill them with 80 exp pilots they just fall out of the skies. Usually loosing about 20 planes for 1-2 Tojos. Is it really possible that the P40 was this worhless or is this a side effect of the Jap player being able to field only Tojos and the weird focus on altitude above all else in the airmodel?

Anyway my pools are completly dry. I have 22 Ks, 12Es, 42 P38 and 109 P-39s in the pool. Using the P-39s against Tojos is just out of the question. I lost about 50 for none above Tanna a few weeks back. This just sucks since I canīt really do much in the air anymore but I have over a 1200 trained pilots and nowhere to put them.

The Navy and Marines have the opposite problem. Lots and lots of airframes but only about 100 trained pilots... Lost too many pilots with the Carriers going down. I now find myself having to use training squadrons on the frontline to try and fill the gaps which just adds to the problems... [:(]

ny59giants_MatrixForum -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/29/2012 2:14:13 PM)


I also have two army divisions prepped for Milne bay and two more prepped for Port Morsby. Iīm confident I could take both objectives if I could get the troops ashore. I donīt know if thats possible though. Its to far away for me to LRCAP.

Portland Roads - A dot base that is within LRCAP for Port Moresby. After building up Cooktown, send the SB (SeaBees) up the road to expand this base.

Caranvon and Exmouth - Your armor is strong enough to push him out of both bases. It was done to me and with the use of AA units, you don't need that many air units for the time being. There is a dot base to the east of Geraldton in the desert that can be built up and put Port Hedland under possible bomber attacks. At least force him to spread out his fighter forces. [;)]

Navy/Marine pilots - But out (PP) at least one fighter group of each. Place on your largest CV and re-size to max (90). Fill out with some planes and pilots to the normal amount. Select a leader with the best Inspiration, Leadership, and then Air (in that order). Train them up and use these groups as training units for now.

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/29/2012 5:07:03 PM)

Again, thank you for the advice! [:)]

Portland Roads is already build up but Iīm really struggeling to draw supply there. AF 6, Port 2, Forts 4 but I can never get more then 80 supply there? The dot base before that one has 75k supply. Its also build up to AF6 fort 4.

Do you think its doable to take on PM without major carriers? I would love to apply pressure on him on yet another place! If I can get Milne and PM and build them up I think his keepings in Sopac will be alot more exposed!

Iīve sent all engineers to the dotbase east of Gerald Town! Should be built up in no time!

Iīve thought about resizing but I just donīt feel confterable doing so. I know my opponent does with his training squadrons. Iīve will think it through!

Dan Nichols -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/29/2012 5:15:48 PM)

I'd try moving SW Pacific HQ to Portland Roads and see if that will help. What is the status of Terapo? It might be an easier target and closer.

ny59giants_MatrixForum -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (7/29/2012 7:30:45 PM)

The base east of Geraldton is Meekatharra which is a dot base, but AF is 0(6) and only 10 hexes from Port Hedland.

Normanton - expand base, create barges, ship troops to Mornington, expand base. Station DB at Normanton in case he sends a SC TF there once he knows your there.

Cooktown to Portland Roads. Max out port and AF at Cooktown. Draw an extra 10k x3 supply. Again create barges and/or use small xAKLs to move up the coast to get supplies up to Portland Roads (I would set them at Full Speed to get to and fro). There is very few spots his ships can get you due to the reef (red hexsides). Click 'Yes' at Portland Roads to stockpile supply.

CV air groups. Bite the bullet and buy back (PP) those destroyed air groups and re-size to 36 plane units. Train them up. You'll need them later.

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/10/2012 3:19:51 PM)


Down to page 3! About time to do an update! [:)]


Iīm about to embark on my first major Amphibious Assault. Target is Noumuea. 1st Marines will hit the beach in about two weeks. Erik has pulled out of the entire SoPac area as a consequence of my little Burma adventure. About 700 AV will land on the beach on D-Day. The force will be covered by 180 Carrier based fighters as well as about 50 Cosairs from Tanna. I have excellent Naval search in place and the possibility of an ambush is low. I will send two Light CruDivs (1 cleavland + 6 DDs) up north to cover the approches.

Locaction of KB is unknown. Probably refitting in the HI or might be raiding in the Centpac (more on that further down). I think it is unlikely he will try to interfere with any landings at this point even if KB is in the area. I will land 150 AS in the first wave and if things go to plan I can have 140 higly trained DBs in range on D+2 backed up by almost 200 fighters.


Very intresting developments.

Erik has responded aggressivly to my Burma incursion. But has he made a bad call here or is he again being really smart?
The stack moving North from Scwebo looks a bit too week to roaming the country side on its own. It looks very light on armour (tankettes [:D]). I on the other hand have about 800 tanks with me toghether with some 3k AV.

Should I move south to try and seek battle with this stack in open terrain? The danger as I see it is to be cut off by the stupid hexside system. If I move down the rail line to the hex he occupies I can only move out from it the same way I came unless I defeat his stack, right? And if he in the meantime move his forces from Katha into the hex Iīm currently in I canīt move anywhere. Is this correct?

Advice on this situation would be VERY welcome. I can not under any circumstances let the troops get annihilated.


A small party of 8 enemy ships showed up between PH and the West Coast?! Its listed as 7 CAs and 1 CL! No CVs listed here though. Whatever it is he will not find anything interesting here. The whole area was evacuated about 10 days ago when a sub on its way from NoPac to PH ran across two DDs in the middle of nowhere NW of PH.


Following micheals advice on Normanton and engineers have just started arriving! Also setting up barge convoys to Portland roads.

Carnavon will see 1500 restricted Oz AV moving in within a month.

Waiting for troops and shipping.

Another BG arriving within days. So 50 more 2Es. Another 50 4Es within a month. In two months 72 Hellcats will also start flying here.

I would really be greatful to any advice on the Burma situation. Part of me really wants to shift south and take on his stack in open terrain. Another part of me is terrified of being cut off.


JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/11/2012 6:28:37 AM)

*shameful bump*


ORIGINAL: JocMeister


Very intresting developments.

Should I move south to try and seek battle with this stack in open terrain? The danger as I see it is to be cut off by the stupid hexside system. If I move down the rail line to the hex he occupies I can only move out from it the same way I came unless I defeat his stack, right? And if he in the meantime move his forces from Katha into the hex Iīm currently in I canīt move anywhere. Is this correct?

Advice on this situation would be VERY welcome. I can not under any circumstances let the troops get annihilated.

BBfanboy -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/11/2012 2:49:40 PM)

If your troops have good morale, they should be able to move out of any attempts to surround them and head back into the jungle. Speed of movement is affected by morale and the Thai units have mediocre morale.
I also think the Thai units are lacking in anti-tank weapons and should be easy to roll over. I'd go for it, with careful recon of the flanks for any attempt to surround.

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/12/2012 9:23:29 AM)



If your troops have good morale, they should be able to move out of any attempts to surround them and head back into the jungle. Speed of movement is affected by morale and the Thai units have mediocre morale.
I also think the Thai units are lacking in anti-tank weapons and should be easy to roll over. I'd go for it, with careful recon of the flanks for any attempt to surround.

Iīm not worried for the troops per see. But rather to be cut off by the "hexside ownership" nonsense. As I understand it:

He is currently "owning" the hex south of my stack. (see map in previous post)
If I move down to the same hex I can only move back the same way I came unless I defeat this stack.
If he then moves with his stack from Katha to the hex I was previously occupying (now empty since I moved south)he will take ownership of that hex.
I can move back to that hex but will be unable to move anywhere from that hex UNLESS I defeat the "Katha stack" that took ownership of the hex.

Is this correct? I would really, really like some clearification on this before I do anything. Its pretty critical to know if this is how it works. It would suck to loose 3k unrestriced AV beacuse of not understanding the game mechanics properly! [:(]

If this is how it works there is a very real possibilty I would get cut off and unable to retreat back to India.

BBfanboy -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/12/2012 3:54:24 PM)

Yeah, I'm not all that clear on the hex side control thing but what you said sounds about right. Thing is, you also have lots of units on the map and all you need is for one of them to enter the contested hexside to open a new escape route. Just keep it one hex away from your main stack, and two or more away from the enemy.

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/13/2012 8:16:09 PM)


Thank you! I was afraid of that. Will perhaps need to have a unit flanking my stack for the sole purpose of "breaking through" the hexside control...

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/18/2012 7:36:26 AM)

One of those tense turns right now. Sent it to Erik last night but havnīt gotten anything back yet. So I decided to do an update while waiting.


Four days ago the 1st Marines landed successfully on Noumea! Unfortunately they unloaded a day too soon. I have no idea how this happened. They were 9 hexes from Noumea and set to follow a ASW TF set to Mission speed (4/4). That should mean they would move 8 hexes during the two phases? Yet they arrived in the day phase and started unloading. That had the unfortunate consequence that everything didnīt have time to unload. I still donīt know where the KB is so I didnīt dare hang around. And true to his habit Erik sent parts of the KB/MKB down the next turn.

He has loitered around even after his CAP was sucked in on a raid crushing the AF on Koumac. He lost around 10 Zeroes on that day. If he hang around this turn things could get very ugly for him. I think he is being a tad reckless with his CVs. I know he has at least 1-2 CVs trying to raid between PH and the WC. So what is seen is probably parts of the mini KB or perhaps I got a few CVE/CVLs during earlier CV clashes and this is whats left of the MKB. I need to get the rest of the troops onshore!

He is extremely light on CAP over his TF and with some luck I get some coordination and can get through. I have all available fighters over Noumea set to 70/30. Thats still some 50 fighters free to escort. The 2Es are all above 70 in naval attack and 2 of the squadrons will fly low naval. My main worry here is his strike aircraft. 64 Kates are a pretty big hammer. I hope the 100 fighters I have over Noumea will be enough to prevent any huge losses. Iīm mostly concerned about the troop carrying APs. I really need those! They are supposed to go to OZ after this invasion and upgrade to APAs!

Iīm out of supply in Noumea but the TF unloading the rest of the troops have about 20k with them and hopefully enough supply will be unloaded to allow strike missions and escpecially CAP to be flown!

I hate sitting here just waiting for the turn! Grrr! [:)]


JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/18/2012 9:08:22 AM)

Crap, Erik just sent me an email saying he has a breakfast scheduled this morning. No turn yet for a few hours. [:(]

Iīm really nervous about his Kates...But there is a very good chance they will come in unescorted if they come. His Kates flew against my SCTF west of Noumea last turn and they came without escort. I think he has reduced his CAP range to avoid being sucked into another 4:E raid on Koumac. If his 64 Kates take off unescorted and meet close to a 100 Fighters (18 of them being Corsairs) over a base with radar most of them SHOULD be shot down...

Arrgh, the wait!

JocMeister -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/18/2012 12:40:59 PM)

Just got the replay back. Iīll let the combat report speak for itself:

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 43
B5N2 Kate x 69
D3A1 Val x 59
D4Y1 Judy x 21

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 139
F4U-1 Corsair x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 15 destroyed, 18 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 12 destroyed, 12 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 9 destroyed, 3 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Prince William, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CVE Altamaha, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CVE Nassau, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CLAA San Juan, Bomb hits 1
CVE Chenango, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CVE Sangamon, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CVE Suwannee, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Selfridge
CA Salt Lake City, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
CA Astoria, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Stuart
DD Duncan
DD Mugford
CLAA San Diego


Iīm so fed up with this game right now. 142! Allied fighters with 46 minutes warning! manage to shoot down a wooping 40 enemy bombers!

And the best part of it all:
5!! bombers are shot down by flak. 5! This is simply getting ridiculous. Its just so much in fantasy land is unbelievable!

If I open up the turn when I get it and find out the weather is good over Tanna and Noumea Iīm going to drop this game. If it is this will be the second time the game for no apparent reason fails to do what its supposed to do in a critical situation costing me greatly.


ny59giants_MatrixForum -> RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? (8/18/2012 3:41:09 PM)

How many fighters did you have show up on the combat replay as available to go after the bombers?? Often, the numbers you see here, the 142, were involved in combat at one point, but not throughout the whole A2A battle.

What was the altitude of his Kates vs what you had set for your fighters?? Sometimes, if it greater than 10k difference, then they are unlikely to get down fast enough to engage them. I stack my fighters at different altitude to ensure some are down low enough. 12k is good enough to ensure my fighters are low enough to get anything unless I know he likes to come in at 2k, then some are below 10k.

AA issues is one reason I've gone over to games based on DaBigBabes mod. [:)]

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