Artillery in the JTCS (Full Version)

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resinslinger -> Artillery in the JTCS (6/7/2012 2:02:23 PM)

Years ago when I first played JTCS (West Front and East Front II), I could never understand why indirect artillery fire or ground attack aircraft missions were attenuated due to the range from the firing unit to the target unit. In almost all the wargames that I have ever played, no matter if it was a typical board or miniature or computer game, artillery always had the same effect vs. soft units. At the time, I was a member of the TalonSoft forum for these excellent game titles (they were excellent at the time) and I got into some rather heated debates with other members on this subject matter. One member's argument was that as the shells got further from the firing unit that they would disperse as the range increased. I don't think so. I did some research on real life experiences from veterans of World War II and other modern wars and found that artillery was and still is one of the major fears that dismounted infantry (and mounted infantry in certain situations) face in a combat situation. Look what happened at Falaise Pocket. Allied aircraft and artillery decimated the retreating German units. I finally found a tutorial that showed me how to mod a unit's combat characteristics and even make some new units that were not included in the original games. So I started doing the mods (I think I completed the Germans, Russians, United States) so that artillery units would have the same HE factor at any range. It worked for the most part but the game still attenuated the modified factors to some degree but it did make these units extremely deadly. You couldn't run your infantry or soft units around in the open and expect to survive an attack from one of the bigger indirect fire units or ground attack aircraft. I remember that before I made these mods of an instance where I had an infantry unit in the open and was the target of a 150mm indirect fire mission at a respectable range from the firing unit. Absolutely nothing happened to the infantry unit and it went its merry way. Something else that I always hoped to see fixed was what happens to soft targets (especially infantry) that are the victims of an artillery barrage if they are in a woods or similar hex. Tree bursts are extremely deadly and terrifying. Ask any World War II vet that experienced such an attack. Now you might argue that the scale of the game would not allow the inclusion of tree bursts and I would not agree with you. At the very least, it should make the infantry units go to ground or maybe even panic (Get the hell outta here). Well, these were my main grips with the old versions of the game. Maybe I will be surprised when I buy this new version. If not, looks like I am going to be modding again. Cheers all. Chris.




Josh -> RE: Artillery in the JTCS (6/7/2012 4:47:05 PM)

You're right about that, the Inf units were very hard to hit with HE shells. Maybe it wasn't because of increasing distance, but because of inaccuracy of spotting. The farther the spotter had to look the more inaccurate his calculations were, so therefor the HE factor decreased. I think.
Maybe that ain't modelled exactly right in JTCS, because experienced mortar crews could be very deadly in WWII combat (as you already pointed out), so maybe that needs an update too.




resinslinger -> RE: Artillery in the JTCS (6/7/2012 5:00:57 PM)

Not quite sure why the spotter range from the target would have any effect on the outcome of an artillery barrage unless the artillery unit was the spotting unit. Then I could see merit in your response. However, if the spotter were a forward unit within good spotting range of the target, then the effect of the barrage would be the same whatever the distance was from the firing unit hex to the target unit hex. I have always felt that the type of indirect fire mission should have been modeled into the game....say Interdiction, Surpressive, Opportunity, or all out Barrage. Not sure if this feature could be modeled in at this point but it sure would be a great addition to a great series of games.

Thank you for your response. I enjoy an intelligent debate. Chris.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

You're right about that, the Inf units were very hard to hit with HE shells. Maybe it wasn't because of increasing distance, but because of inaccuracy of spotting. The farther the spotter had to look the more inaccurate his calculations were, so therefor the HE factor decreased. I think.
Maybe that ain't modelled exactly right in JTCS, because experienced mortar crews could be very deadly in WWII combat (as you already pointed out), so maybe that needs an update too.





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