RE: European Championships (Full Version)

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Dixie -> RE: European Championships (3/26/2013 11:11:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cohimbra


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Yes he is. And it's 1-1. We never got started in the 2nd half [:@]

Qualification is now a problem.......[&:]


The second classified don't go to play-off? I see the classification,
and there aren't strong teams, except England & France. I don't think
your qualification is a big problem.


The best eight go to the playoffs. I wouldn't class England as a strong team either, we're far too inconsistent (and average) to reach that category. Lets face it, a top team would have beaten Montenegro tonight but far too often England fall short.

Roy Keane is not impressed either.




cohimbra -> RE: European Championships (3/26/2013 11:14:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
b) Have you seen some of the potential teams that will finish 2nd?

Portugal. Belgium or Croatia, Spain or France!!!, Sweden, Bulgaria...... Oh dear.....


Well...yes, there's some good teams, but also England is a good team.
I'm not saying it will be easy, but the other teams will think: oh dear,
there is Spain or France, or England...you surely know the condition of
your team better than me, but playing versus England is always a problem.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie
The best eight go to the playoffs.


You're right but there are 9 groups, only the worst don't play the play-off.




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (3/26/2013 11:29:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cohimbra

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
b) Have you seen some of the potential teams that will finish 2nd?

Portugal. Belgium or Croatia, Spain or France!!!, Sweden, Bulgaria...... Oh dear.....


Well...yes, there's some good teams, but also England is a good team.
I'm not saying it will be easy, but the other teams will think: oh dear,
there is Spain or France, or England...you surely know the condition of
your team better than me, but playing versus England is always a problem.

warspite1

Thank you for saying so but a good team? really?

Surely you remember Italy vs England at the Euros? Our two players who passed the ball to each other the most?..... Hart to Carroll's head..... Good......Grief.....

No, when it comes to European football Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland are the mutts nutts. England? Third tier - second tier at our very, very best.




cohimbra -> RE: European Championships (3/26/2013 11:44:28 PM)

I'm not saying this to please you (I've no reason for that), but I assure you that
when we must play against England there's always a bit of fear over the exaltation
of encounter a real 'big match'. And ultimately we're 'only' talking about playoffs,
not about the final of the world cup. I don't want to seem inappropriate and I'll stop
here (for us it's more than a religion, and talk too much about other people's teams is
a mortal sin), but that's what I think.
[8D]




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (3/26/2013 11:48:11 PM)

You are not being inappropriate - its good to have some football banter.

Remember though - Italy have won the World Cup 4 times. Whereas for us, a World Cup play-off match IS our World Cup final [;)]




british exil -> RE: European Championships (3/26/2013 11:58:46 PM)

Warspite remember, most playoffs don't have penalties at the end so there is always hope.

But I already feel sick about not going to Brazil, esp having to work with a group of Germans, that feel a 4:1 tonight is like a defeat.

Mat




Dixie -> RE: European Championships (3/27/2013 6:48:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1

Thank you for saying so but a good team? really?

Surely you remember Italy vs England at the Euros? Our two players who passed the ball to each other the most?..... Hart to Carroll's head..... Good......Grief.....

No, when it comes to European football Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland are the mutts nutts. England? Third tier - second tier at our very, very best.


I have to agree with Warspite on this one. There is no way that England are realistically a big team. Sweden (iirc) have a better record at tournaments then we do in the past 40 years.

If you choose a big team (Germany, Italy, Spain, Netherlands) then how many of the England players would you actually choose over the players in that team? Even in the case of a 'smaller' team (Sweden, Croatia, Portugal) you wouldn't pick many.

P.S. If you said Wayne Rooney you're wrong, he's the perfect example of the English player for me. Brilliant on occasion but given the talent available those occasions are too infrequent.




wodin -> RE: European Championships (3/27/2013 6:59:02 PM)

England are pants and have been for ages. Last time we played well was Euro '96 (we should have won that), time before then was Italia'90.

The players have no fire or passion for their country and wearing the shirt seems to mean nothing to them. I have to laugh at the start of every competition you hear people talking as if we will win it..I wonder why they fool themselves so much.




catwhoorg -> RE: European Championships (3/27/2013 8:37:40 PM)

England are up there on the Fifa rankings, but as usually they flatter to deceive.

They have had good tournaments in my lifetime, but not many.
I still think Mexico '86 should have been Germany - England in the final (but for the Hand of God)

Of course if they could kick their goddamn penalties it would make our tournament results so much better for the last 20 years.




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (3/27/2013 10:19:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

England are pants and have been for ages. Last time we played well was Euro '96 (we should have won that), time before then was Italia'90.

The players have no fire or passion for their country and wearing the shirt seems to mean nothing to them. I have to laugh at the start of every competition you hear people talking as if we will win it..I wonder why they fool themselves so much.
warspite1

Funny how the memory plays tricks. We played "well" because we got to the semi-finals, but in reality:

Italia 90 - Almost didn't get out of the group stages - average against the Irish and Egyptians - although again played well against the Dutch even though we only drew. Incredibly lucky to beat the Belgians who mullered us in the first half, lucky to beat Cameroon after going a goal up and then almost blowing it. Unlucky against the Germans.....

Euro 96 - Average against the Swiss, Good against the Scots, Magnificent against the Dutch. BUT Just. Plain. Lucky against the Spanish. Desperately unlucky against the Germans....

So if we weren't always great why did we do well? We had two great strikers (that never let us down) in Lineker and Shearer* (both of whom could score against the best - not just against Andorra [8|]), oh and we also had a certain Mr Gascoigne. Coincidence that they were the only two tournaments he played in and we got to the semis both times? I don't think so.

That's the difference between great, world class players and Wayne Rooney....

*Michael Owen belongs with those two as well. England were so lucky to have those three, one after the other. Sadly their talents were wasted....

We were unlucky to go out of the 1982 competition unbeaten. Again we had a midfield dynamo (in Bryan Robson) and if Keegan and Brooking were fit, maybe, just maybe we would have made the semis.

1986 we were absolutely appalling against Portugal and Morocco - until Ray Wilkins (the crab) did everyone a favour and got sent off, meaning a shake up in personnel for the final, decisive group game against Poland.....enter Sir Gary of Lineker and Peter Beardsley [&o]. Excellent, easy victory against Paraguay followed before you know who cheated us out of a place in the semis.

Its a funny ol' game.





warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (3/27/2013 10:26:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

Warspite remember, most playoffs don't have penalties at the end so there is always hope.

But I already feel sick about not going to Brazil, esp having to work with a group of Germans, that feel a 4:1 tonight is like a defeat.

Mat
warspite1

Yes but remember also, if we do make it to the play-offs and are drawn against some of those teams I mentioned previously, we won't get anywhere near penalties [;)]




wodin -> RE: European Championships (3/27/2013 10:57:42 PM)

Hmm..I remember all the way through the Euro's we were playing well enough to win it. Only against Spain we struggled. Italia 90 the final was rubbish and we'd have beat either side if Germany hadn't fluked that goal. So yes we struggled at times in those competitions but no where near as poor as we are now. Every team has a tough match and they need abit of luck..we got that against Spain in Euro '96 and should have beat Germany. The Euro Dutch match was supreme.

Hoddle leaving out Gazza was a crime. Gazza never got over that. Yes he was aging but the match before he was told he wasn't going he controlled the midfield and everything centered on him..he was like the center of a wheel passing it along the spokes..

We are useless now and have been since Euro '96.




Dixie -> RE: European Championships (3/27/2013 11:08:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


*Michael Owen belongs with those two as well. England were so lucky to have those three, one after the other. Sadly their talents were wasted....




Michael Owen of the early years perhaps, the wee chap who made his mark in France 98. But Michael Owen after he went to Newcastle (and lost his pace) was pants. How he conned Fergie into signing him is a mystery. And why he signed for Stoke(!) is a bigger one.




wodin -> RE: European Championships (3/28/2013 12:13:20 AM)

All Owen had was pace. Rooney hasn't fulfilled his potential either..sulks to much he had allround skill and not just one asset.




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (3/28/2013 6:51:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


*Michael Owen belongs with those two as well. England were so lucky to have those three, one after the other. Sadly their talents were wasted....




Michael Owen of the early years perhaps, the wee chap who made his mark in France 98. But Michael Owen after he went to Newcastle (and lost his pace) was pants. How he conned Fergie into signing him is a mystery. And why he signed for Stoke(!) is a bigger one.
warspite1

Yes, injuries - particularly the one he got at the World Cup in 2006 spelt the long, slow, drawn out end. As for Man U and Stoke, I guess they took a punt - probably didn't pay much relatively - and it didn't come off for either party.







warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (3/28/2013 7:01:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

All Owen had was pace.

warspite1

...which is incredibly valuable in a top class striker. But to say that's all he had is wrong. Like Lineker, and like Shearer, Owen did the what he was paid to do. World and European stage, he could be relied upon to score in the big games; goals against Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Portugal witness that.

When I was growing up, the World Cup of 66 and the near miss of 70 were fading rapidly into the distance. We tried to qualify for World and European finals with the likes of Malcolm MacDonald, Tony Woodcock, Mark Hateley, Steve Bull - even Trevor Francis 12 goals in 52 games!!

Unless your Spain - or maybe France in 98, you need a World Class goal scorer to win competitions. We were soooo lucky to have those three. We may not have another for quite a while....




british exil -> RE: European Championships (4/6/2013 11:57:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

All Owen had was pace.

warspite1

...which is incredibly valuable in a top class striker. But to say that's all he had is wrong. Like Lineker, and like Shearer, Owen did the what he was paid to do. World and European stage, he could be relied upon to score in the big games; goals against Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Portugal witness that.

When I was growing up, the World Cup of 66 and the near miss of 70 were fading rapidly into the distance. We tried to qualify for World and European finals with the likes of Malcolm MacDonald, Tony Woodcock, Mark Hateley, Steve Bull - even Trevor Francis 12 goals in 52 games!!

Unless your Spain - or maybe France in 98, you need a World Class goal scorer to win competitions. We were soooo lucky to have those three. We may not have another for quite a while....


But come every tournement, it is always said England have the best team ever. Maybe they see the paper version of a team, on the pitch it is a different thing. In South Africa germany showed England how to play, England looked like they thought it was just a training day. Germany played as if it were a training day, no effort needed, all the passes were on target not to mention the shots at the goal. A black day for England.

Poland and Ukraine were even worse, kick and rush, things of Englands past. Something I hoped I would never see again. Long shot forward, fingers crossed, the ball might find it's way into the goal.

I feel really sad for the England Fan that travels to watch the matches, paying extremy of money, only to be dissapointed. Or rather to be in the stadium where the players forget how to play football, I mean they do train alot and they get quite a bit of money from the FA, because they sacrifice their time for England.

They should give the money to the fans so they can be reinbursed.

Mat




Orm -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 6:39:42 PM)

What happened in the FA cup? I thought that this kind of violence didn't happen any longer in English Football. Is this just a single Millwall incident?

[image]local://upfiles/29130/99C322A551504EF3AC70C182326F0291.jpg[/image]




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 7:03:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

What happened in the FA cup? I thought that this kind of violence didn't happen any longer in English Football. Is this just a single Millwall incident?

[image]local://upfiles/29130/99C322A551504EF3AC70C182326F0291.jpg[/image]
warspite1

Orm - please do not mistake these thugs and tossers for football fans. They are scum pure and simple. There is a record of violence linked to Millwall going back to the early 20th century, but all clubs have such mindless twats.

To be clear, this had nothing to do with football - they were apparently all from the Millwall section - and everything to do with a society that tolerates such behaviour. Who knows the motivation - gang rivalry? Boredom? A "good" day out?

Its sickening and should be stamped on by the authorities but that is a forlorn hope...




Orm -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 7:20:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Orm - please do not mistake these thugs and tossers for football fans. They are scum pure and simple.


I do know that they are pure scum. My original post stemmed from my surprise since I thought these thugs gone forever from the English football arenas. I hope it was just a one time incident and that those involved will be banned from the arenas.




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 7:22:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Orm - please do not mistake these thugs and tossers for football fans. They are scum pure and simple.


I do know that they are pure scum. My original post stemmed from my surprise since I thought these thugs gone forever from the English football arenas. I hope it was just a one time incident and that those involved will be banned from the arenas.
warspite1

Sadly, I don't think it will ever disappear. The penalties are just not strong enough.




Orm -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 7:29:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Orm - please do not mistake these thugs and tossers for football fans. They are scum pure and simple.


I do know that they are pure scum. My original post stemmed from my surprise since I thought these thugs gone forever from the English football arenas. I hope it was just a one time incident and that those involved will be banned from the arenas.
warspite1

Sadly, I don't think it will ever disappear. The penalties are just not strong enough.

In Sweden I do not think they get any punishment at all. [:(]

Lets move on. The Spurs seems to have a decent season this year but to much seems to depend on Bale playing. Tough to leave the Euro cup on penalties but at least now you can focus on the league.




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 7:31:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Orm - please do not mistake these thugs and tossers for football fans. They are scum pure and simple.


I do know that they are pure scum. My original post stemmed from my surprise since I thought these thugs gone forever from the English football arenas. I hope it was just a one time incident and that those involved will be banned from the arenas.
warspite1

Sadly, I don't think it will ever disappear. The penalties are just not strong enough.

In Sweden I do not think they get any punishment at all. [:(]

Lets move on. The Spurs seems to have a decent season this year but to much seems to depend on Bale playing. Tough to leave the Euro cup on penalties but at least now you can focus on the league.
warspite1

Just like last season our league form has deserted us and we are now 5th and struggling for a Champions League place. I hate football anyway and its a stupid girls game [;)]

Go Baltimore Ravens!!..or something....[:D]




wodin -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 10:00:53 PM)

Even scousers admit thats all he had..once it went that was it..Rooney is more of an all rounder like Gazza was. Owen was overhyped..Linekar didn't have pace he was good at being in the right spot..Shearer has more than just pace...

As for Spurs we don't deserve to be in the top four..useless as usual.
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

All Owen had was pace.

warspite1

...which is incredibly valuable in a top class striker. But to say that's all he had is wrong. Like Lineker, and like Shearer, Owen did the what he was paid to do. World and European stage, he could be relied upon to score in the big games; goals against Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Portugal witness that.

When I was growing up, the World Cup of 66 and the near miss of 70 were fading rapidly into the distance. We tried to qualify for World and European finals with the likes of Malcolm MacDonald, Tony Woodcock, Mark Hateley, Steve Bull - even Trevor Francis 12 goals in 52 games!!

Unless your Spain - or maybe France in 98, you need a World Class goal scorer to win competitions. We were soooo lucky to have those three. We may not have another for quite a while....




Dixie -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 10:08:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Just like last season our league form has deserted us and we are now 5th and struggling for a Champions League place. I hate football anyway and its a stupid girls game [;)]




You have Spursed it up. Again! [:D] Could be worse though, you could support Liverpool where the manager thinks that missing out on European football next season will be a benefit. Because that way they won't have any distractions from getting into fourth place and earning European football. But then surely they'll have the distraction of European football again? [&:]


Anyway, you're fifth from the top rather than fifth from the bottom so it could be worse...




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 10:48:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Even scousers admit thats all he had..once it went that was it..Rooney is more of an all rounder like Gazza was. Owen was overhyped..Linekar didn't have pace he was good at being in the right spot..Shearer has more than just pace...

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

All Owen had was pace.

warspite1

...which is incredibly valuable in a top class striker. But to say that's all he had is wrong. Like Lineker, and like Shearer, Owen did the what he was paid to do. World and European stage, he could be relied upon to score in the big games; goals against Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Portugal witness that.

When I was growing up, the World Cup of 66 and the near miss of 70 were fading rapidly into the distance. We tried to qualify for World and European finals with the likes of Malcolm MacDonald, Tony Woodcock, Mark Hateley, Steve Bull - even Trevor Francis 12 goals in 52 games!!

Unless your Spain - or maybe France in 98, you need a World Class goal scorer to win competitions. We were soooo lucky to have those three. We may not have another for quite a while....

warspite1

Guess we'll agree to disagree on that one [;)]




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (4/14/2013 10:54:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Just like last season our league form has deserted us and we are now 5th and struggling for a Champions League place. I hate football anyway and its a stupid girls game [;)]




You have Spursed it up. Again! [:D] Could be worse though, you could support Liverpool where the manager thinks that missing out on European football next season will be a benefit. Because that way they won't have any distractions from getting into fourth place and earning European football. But then surely they'll have the distraction of European football again? [&:]


Anyway, you're fifth from the top rather than fifth from the bottom so it could be worse...
warspite1

If I have my facts right, only 5th place will get a Europa League spot this year (Swansea and Wigan take the other two places) so I guess Rodgers has to talk up the positives of not playing in Europe....

The way Spurs are playing - and have been for a couple of months - we will be lucky to hold onto 5th. Perhaps AVB will soon be extolling the virtues of not being in Europe next year too..... [;)]




Dixie -> RE: European Championships (4/16/2013 9:43:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Just like last season our league form has deserted us and we are now 5th and struggling for a Champions League place. I hate football anyway and its a stupid girls game [;)]




You have Spursed it up. Again! [:D] Could be worse though, you could support Liverpool where the manager thinks that missing out on European football next season will be a benefit. Because that way they won't have any distractions from getting into fourth place and earning European football. But then surely they'll have the distraction of European football again? [&:]


Anyway, you're fifth from the top rather than fifth from the bottom so it could be worse...
warspite1

If I have my facts right, only 5th place will get a Europa League spot this year (Swansea and Wigan take the other two places) so I guess Rodgers has to talk up the positives of not playing in Europe....

The way Spurs are playing - and have been for a couple of months - we will be lucky to hold onto 5th. Perhaps AVB will soon be extolling the virtues of not being in Europe next year too..... [;)]


Out of curiosity: Would you, as a fan, rather get fifth place and the Europa League with a decent chance of winning it or fourth place and the Champions' League with no chance of winning the competition? This obviously ignores the probability of finishing third in the CL group and being dropped into the Europa League (a practice that, IMO, should stop).




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (4/17/2013 7:03:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Just like last season our league form has deserted us and we are now 5th and struggling for a Champions League place. I hate football anyway and its a stupid girls game [;)]




You have Spursed it up. Again! [:D] Could be worse though, you could support Liverpool where the manager thinks that missing out on European football next season will be a benefit. Because that way they won't have any distractions from getting into fourth place and earning European football. But then surely they'll have the distraction of European football again? [&:]


Anyway, you're fifth from the top rather than fifth from the bottom so it could be worse...
warspite1

If I have my facts right, only 5th place will get a Europa League spot this year (Swansea and Wigan take the other two places) so I guess Rodgers has to talk up the positives of not playing in Europe....

The way Spurs are playing - and have been for a couple of months - we will be lucky to hold onto 5th. Perhaps AVB will soon be extolling the virtues of not being in Europe next year too..... [;)]


Out of curiosity: Would you, as a fan, rather get fifth place and the Europa League with a decent chance of winning it or fourth place and the Champions' League with no chance of winning the competition? This obviously ignores the probability of finishing third in the CL group and being dropped into the Europa League (a practice that, IMO, should stop).
warspite1

Its a good question. I have to say the latter - but am not happy about it.

I was brought up in the days of the European Cup, Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Cup. All quality competitions that teams that qualified for wanted to win.

Sadly, the Champions League monster was created - and with it, the continued polarisation of European football (no doubt this paves the way for a European League in due course) that allows the rich elite to get richer. The reason I have to say the Champions League is more important is purely financial. Without it, a club will quickly fall into the second rank, top players will be difficult to attract, and clubs lose their best players to those clubs that can offer CL football.

Fair play to AVB for wanting to try and win the Europa League this year (although Spurs being Spurs we mucked it up) but too many clubs can't be bothered with it because of the need for CL. Aston Villa a few years ago was a sad case in point. They got through to the latter stages of the competiion but then fielded a weakened side to ensure they were able to maintain their top 4 challenge. As it turned out they then went out of the Europa league and their league form collapsed and so missed out anyway.




warspite1 -> RE: European Championships (4/20/2013 10:24:15 PM)

Wow - I wonder what the future holds for QPR now?

Portsmouth and Leeds are two words that spring to mind.......[:(]




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