41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (Full Version)

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notenome -> 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/10/2012 2:10:36 PM)

41-45 GC vs the talented and intelectual 821, he's invited to post an introductory comment. House rules include no paradrops past 8 hexes and no mulling. Hopefully it will be a long and interesting game.




821Bobo -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/10/2012 3:02:35 PM)

Looking forward to our game.
Maybe we should mention that this will be played with random weather.




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/10/2012 3:16:33 PM)

Indeed we should, at your insistence, I find random weather mostly screws the axis, but hey, who am I to disagree.




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/14/2012 10:11:11 PM)

So we start at turn 4, and I am getting whipped badly. Here's how things are looking:



[image]local://upfiles/33636/7E3835BCD24C4C2B96E414FC73C7239B.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/14/2012 10:13:18 PM)

Here is the center:


[image]local://upfiles/33636/F0D1598AD5474AE0A1927793F0D84411.jpg[/image]




M60A3TTS -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/14/2012 10:15:32 PM)

We've seen pockets much bigger than that. Keep at it.




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/14/2012 10:16:50 PM)

And saving the best for last, here's the north. Going crazy trying to find a unit that can isolate the panzers.

[image]local://upfiles/33636/27446A5040B643B092A88398ED8FA0EB.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/14/2012 10:35:27 PM)

Im not worried about that, Im worried that its turn 4 and the Axis are within ten hexes of Leningrad. I got complacent after my succesful game vs baba and now have a full fledged crisis in my hands.




bigbaba -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/15/2012 12:12:20 AM)

he did a great job so far. i remember that i was not able to reopen a path to the PG 4 in the north and still was attacking at the dnjepr line in turn 3-4 against you.


one problem against you was your constant reopening of the pockets but that was not the reason to surrender. the only reason was the cut off PG4 in the north. you would surely destroy this force in the next turn.

he is already over the great river in turn 4 without much infantry support!

and all that although you do a great job trying to isolate his panzers like you did it in my game.

i started a new game against a more "defensive" russian opponent and am east of smolensk with PG 2+3 in turn 3. i like this kind of opponents more then you.:)




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/15/2012 3:22:37 AM)

yeah, I am very aggressive. Every turn I have managed to reopen a pocket and at least isolate some mobile units. I actually managed to isolate PG 4 on turn 2, but 821 managed to break out of it and cross the river near Pskov. Really this game so far has come down to some infantile mistakes on my part failing to defend properly in depth. Still, I am determined to defend Leningrad no matter the cost.




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/15/2012 8:04:55 AM)

So here we have the final end turn situation in the south, we counterattacked and managed to open a lifeline to the pocket.


[image]local://upfiles/33636/9D9DEEA473A24D36AC7D7FACF6E3F70E.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/15/2012 8:09:18 AM)

The Center, where I managed ot extircate all of Western Fronts divisions from the emerging pocket, creating a very bizarre shaped front.

[image]local://upfiles/33636/BE72C365DED042A1BC6DBD93288279AB.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/15/2012 8:14:17 AM)

And the aneurism inducing north, all of Leningrad's armament, KV and vehicle production is out. 100k rail just for that. It's maddening that not a single div had enough MPs for an isolation.

[image]local://upfiles/33636/6A592AE74BE44F449E56C9F0C5825F3E.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/15/2012 8:35:52 AM)

Lastly, losses and the counterattack that resupplied the pocket in the south. Notice that the panzer div has less than 30 operational tanks now. You can see that this is one of 14 combats on the hex, part of the reason is air recon, but I also used my echelon tactics of making repeated attacks to soften and tire the division before the main assault.

[image]local://upfiles/33636/7BB338FA05F74F53AEA4D97C7B0904B1.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 8:02:00 AM)

Well hello there loyal readers, its a heck of a time to be a soviet, lemme tell you.

The last three turns have seen a rolling battle in the center with Smolensk being nearly pocketed (and then pocketed and releaved) for three consecutive turns. And we're only up to turn 6.

So let's get cracking, here's the stabilized but still very delicate situation in the north. I'm making the most of those northern tank divisions (with CV values of 7) using them to check the Axis advance as best I can. Also, what is the deal with security regiments? I had to panic move my brigades to the border because I saw some sec regiments were withdrawn? How am I supposed to man the border with the fins???

[image]local://upfiles/33636/3E3FC8B089FA41759DE8AD220D0D6E00.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 8:03:42 AM)

Of course, despite the deadly serious situation in Leningrad, I can always spare a couple formations for a little mischief. Have fun bailing your entire corps out.

[image]local://upfiles/33636/73035748495A4303837240E85DDE4339.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 8:06:24 AM)

And here's the almighty clusterf***k known as the western front. It's hard to tell whose encircling whom. Do you know what's happening? 'Cause I don't. Breakout in the south is unstoppable, so had to revert to a very loose checkerboard.

[image]local://upfiles/33636/7A5B865CE16046E2AA2215FD150ADD31.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 8:09:25 AM)

And here's the attack that saved the nation (perhaps literary). I used my Zukhov strategy of making a dozen small attacks before the main assault. Against exhausted divisions it works like a charm. Believe it or not, the only isolated division in the whole western front is that topmost panzer div.

[image]local://upfiles/33636/0796BF30DCF0433A8394EC395FA09C9E.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 8:16:09 AM)

And finally the south, and island of tranquility that I've been siphoning off troops to feed other fronts. There are two reserve armies around Kiev that were delaying the Axis advance, I'm pulling them back and will use them to counterattack any breach the Axis make across the river. Dig dig dig.

Notice the isolated spearhead and my use of speedbumps in front of the river line. I put disposable cav and AB divs in front of the river to mess the Axis attack plan. Its actually worked fairly well in the past.

[image]local://upfiles/33636/2FD825B191FC4B8D8EE1A1B7968DB4C6.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 8:22:12 AM)

Which does remind me, where is my local STAVKA liason, flavius? I do so miss his 'counterattack everywhere!' advice.




timmyab -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 12:00:30 PM)

You look to be fried in the North.Is this an end turn shot?If not I'd get everything on the Western Luga and put it in front of 4th pz group, especially in the swamp hexes.Don't rely too much on those big tank divisions, they lose strength rapidly once they get into a fight.
quote:

ORIGINAL: notenome
Also, what is the deal with security regiments? I had to panic move my brigades to the border because I saw some sec regiments were withdrawn? How am I supposed to man the border with the fins???

Don't rely on them, they're good for virtually nothing now.Might as well be removed from the game really.
quote:

ORIGINAL: notenome
Notice the isolated spearhead and my use of speedbumps in front of the river line. I put disposable cav and AB divs in front of the river to mess the Axis attack plan. Its actually worked fairly well in the past.

Those hexes should be an important part of any good Dnieper defense.As long as you have a decent sized force to play with you can put a couple of divisions in each hex and get the CVs up in the sort of 12-20 range and force AGS to take them with deliberate attacks.In fact I defend any good terrain in front of the river including the light woods around Cherkassy, even if only with a token force.








notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 3:16:08 PM)

I understand they are useless, it's just that I usually man the border with the fins with them, understand? That's why I'm worried about withdraws, cause it would suck if a sec regiment all of a sudden dissapeared and the fins marched on Leningrad.




Manstein63 -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 3:26:36 PM)

Don't use them to man the Finnish front as they will all be removed by September? just use them as blocking forces in front of your MLR
I had them manning large parts of the Finnish front in one game & when they vanished I was just about able to replace them with infantry brigades before the Finns arrived. But it screwed part of my front line making it weaker than I wanted.
Manstein63




Flaviusx -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 5:11:33 PM)

The NKVD units disband very aggressively now, so use them or lose them. By turn 6 or so they are mostly gone. With the latest rules for shatters/routs on ants, they're even more flimsy than before.

I personally think they ought to be removed from the game period at this point since they are practically notional units now. Basically, they are one shot deals.

Counterattacking is good, but that's gotten harder since you last played. The Germans are a lot tougher now in 1941 than they used to be. The new hotness is reserves.

So far as Leningrad goes, my own view at this point is that if you are at all serious about making a fight of it -- not holding it, mind you, just making the Axis sweat a little for it -- you have to go all in from the getgo and heavily reinforce it. And also 7. Army up north to stall the Finns as close to the chokepoint as possible rather than running to the Svir. If it falls too early that releases a panzer group and the better part of an infantry army for operations elsewhere, namely, Moscow. The Axis can easily contrive to push rails forward fast enough in the center to get at least a month of clear weather operations to nab Moscow, and holding it against 3 panzer groups for that long in clear weather is extremely difficult. Therefore the defense of Moscow begins in Pskov.

And, yeah, putting lots of stuff along the western Luga is just begging for them to be cut off. The real defense line runs roughly from Leningrad proper to Novgorod. Your goal here should to be delay a crossing of the Neva river by Pavlovo as long as possible. This is all that matters. Once across, the city is doomed. Keeping the Finns at bay also discourages the alternate method of a wide flanking maneuver to drive to the Svir to meet up with them.




timmyab -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 8:02:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
Your goal here should to be delay a crossing of the Neva river by Pavlovo as long as possible. This is all that matters. Once across, the city is doomed.

This is excellent advice.
The Volkhov is also an important part of the defense of Leningrad.Against a determined Axis player, forcing them to take Sviritsa is the best you can hope for in the North unless it's heavily reinforced starting on turn one.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
Keeping the Finns at bay also discourages the alternate method of a wide flanking maneuver to drive to the Svir to meet up with them.

I think this only applies if you intend to actually try and hold Leningrad and the Northern fronts have been heavily reinforced.You'd need a pretty strong army to seriously delay the Finns and by around turn ten or so I'd rather have that strength facing South in the Volkhov marshes.





bigbaba -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/17/2012 8:55:56 PM)

hehe, look at this chaos in the center. playing as axis against you is like a knife fight in a telefon cell notenome.:)




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/21/2012 9:09:15 PM)

Turn 9:

MUD! Glorious mud! Field Marshall Mudovsky! This is before soviet moves.

In the south an attempt to isolate southwest front was halted and isolated, and now thanks to the mud, the panzers have stalled and are vulnerable.


[image]local://upfiles/33636/C09EBCFC571C4BCB8E439CA8FFB9286C.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/21/2012 9:09:44 PM)

In the center, after a 5 week battle for Smolensk (where around 20 divisions were encircled), the Axis advance was stalled, with no more than 10 miles advanced. Reserves! The new hotness. Some divisions withstood 4 attacks before retreating. Reserves!

[image]local://upfiles/33636/912C0420AD88482EACFE8AB24D10D4CA.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/21/2012 9:09:55 PM)

In the north, The fascists gain nothing for the second week in a row as the heroic defenders of Leningrad desperately try to hold on until winter.


[image]local://upfiles/33636/2AF998865729479695B166E091E35696.jpg[/image]




notenome -> RE: 41-45 GC AAR notenome (sov) vs 821Bobo (axis) no 821 past first page. (5/21/2012 9:10:06 PM)

And in the swamps, cavalry divisions that had remained hidden spring forth, racing towards Axis supply lines.


[image]local://upfiles/33636/ADDC0AFC420E43D895942556E0234E51.jpg[/image]




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