foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (Full Version)

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wga -> foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/27/2012 8:30:54 PM)

A longtime opponent and I are in the early months of a Uncommon Valor and will start a WITP full campaign in parallel, dedicating years it will take. Given WITP is 60 NM/hex, AE is 40 NM/hex and Pacific War was 100 miles/hex, AE has an attraction due to hex size closer to UCV (30 NM/hex). Does the additional complexity of AE make a full campaign (3 days/turn; still 350+ turns) any less feasible than WITP? Do other people play campaign games vs human opposition without withdrawing from the human race?

Over the years we have completed campaigns of SPI War in the Pacific, SPI War in Europe, AH The Longest Day; Squad Leader Campaign Games, SSI War in Russia. If one is to dive into the pool, may as well go deep and play the campaign game. Playing a real live thinking gamer is the only way to go.

Likely to add campaign games of a Matrix/Grigsby War in the East, War Between the States, and one of the Ariel Bombing campaign (Talonsoff/12 O'Clock high which we have else Matrix/Eagle Day). Am looking forward to retiring soon and join the Professional Wargame Tour.




dr.hal -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/27/2012 8:43:34 PM)

Greetings Bill and welcome aboard this fantastic ride! To my view, AE is light years ahead of WITP. The detail is what makes is so great. I play single day turns as I just think its fun to guide things alone (control freak?). Thus it is a LONG term commitment and can be intrusive, you just have to manage your time and expectations to both your partners (one in the game and the other in the house!). If you really want to be competitive and offer up good opposition skills I would argue that you might want to play a few smaller scenarios as test runs as the rules and capabilities are not the same as the old WITP. But no matter what you do, this is going to be a fun venture for you. Hal




Puhis -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/27/2012 9:08:28 PM)

It's better to forget original WitP and start game using AE. AE is just so much better, like hal said, light years ahead.




Chickenboy -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/27/2012 9:49:46 PM)

Hi Bill,

I agree with Puhis and Dr. hal. Don't waste your time on WiTP "vanilla". It was a fun game, but AE is so much better, I don't even know where to start. Strongly advise you get involved with AE instead.

ETA: Yes, you can still have a life with PBEM against a human opponent. Limit yourself to one game and it's quite manageable. Two or more games and you're asking for a nervous 'episode'. [;)]




Commander Stormwolf -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/27/2012 10:54:53 PM)


AE has lots of problems , the air combat system is still a bit out of whack

BUT

WITP original:

- pilot 20,000 limit bug
- submarines don't really function
- UBER CAP
- surface units don't really function
- replacement rates innacurate


so play AE...

an amazing achivement in research, and the best pacwar game ever made




crsutton -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 12:56:04 AM)

Luke, come over to the dark side. It is your destiny.[8D]




Disco Duck -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 3:49:42 AM)

The User interface is just so much better in AE. Convoys with up to three waypoints is a huge improvement. The way the ports work is so much better. I probably have lost track of all of the improvements. Come to the Dark side.[sm=00000613.gif]




Hanzberger -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 4:01:02 AM)

Don't walk to AE, RUN~!




Itdepends -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 7:27:57 AM)

If you play AE make sure you update to the latest patches- huge interface improvements




LoBaron -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 11:41:17 AM)

Don´t even think twice. I can only echo what already has been said.

The UI improvements make more than up for the increased complexity, so actually you will be spending less time searching for stuff than
in WitP.

I reccommend you try WitP AE DaBabes, or BaBabesLite, which removes/reduces many of the DB errors still present in the stock version, and
improves a lot of combat algorithms.
Also, installing tracker and combat reporter might be a good idea, but is not a must if you are playing Allies.




Cannonfodder -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 11:49:11 AM)

AE.. by miles!




Gräfin Zeppelin -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 1:23:23 PM)

* Dances into the thread and sings* " AE AEeeee" *Dances out of the thread*




LoBaron -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 3:57:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

* Dances into the thread and sings* " AE AEeeee" *Dances out of the thread*


Ah, Gräfin, must fit perfectly to Tibetan Throat Singing...




Treetop64 -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 4:06:53 PM)

(WITP vs WITP AE) = (Ford Cortina MkI vs Ford GT)

Both are great but the latter is soooooo much newer and better. A no brainer.




Gräfin Zeppelin -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 10:12:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

* Dances into the thread and sings* " AE AEeeee" *Dances out of the thread*


Ah, Gräfin, must fit perfectly to Tibetan Throat Singing...

Hell yes [:D]




millersan -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/28/2012 10:33:11 PM)

Howdy from Houston. I've also played SPI WiTP a few times. Even re-did all the rules. AE is way ahead of even the new decision games WiTP. Now playing my first game (PBEM) and as the Jap it's overwhelming but a dream come true. The US player has a much easier time early on so whoever plays the Japanese had better have 3-5 hours of free time a day (assuming one day turn and making one move a day). The first few turns can take as much as 8 hours to get everything moving.
As mentioned, be sure to get the new patch (over 500 fixes). It also appears most folks on the Forum are very helpful and there is tons of info on this site not found in the rules.




wga -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/29/2012 1:45:58 PM)

I am in NE Dallas. [Millersan, one of my UCV opponents is in Houston.]

Thanks all for the input. Given I am to embark on likely a 3+ years playing the 1 turn/day game; it seems wise to play AE (ordered one) as it is the one currently supported and will have ongoing updates.

I realized this forum will be more biased towards AE. My only concern is I play scores of game titles as am primarily a boardgame tournament player (in person and in various PBEM ladders/tournaments. Similarly I play the the lower 4 Squad Leader games as Advanced Squad Leader is a lifestyle. I am not to dedicate my life to playigng WITP-AE.




wga -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/29/2012 2:26:14 PM)

I wish they had server play mode, would speed small games along if both players have the day at home rather than checking email. But with routers, firewalls, AI, etc, may be a technical challenge But Vassal does it.




USS America -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/29/2012 3:48:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wga

I am not to dedicate my life to playing WITP-AE.



That's funny right there! AE is a harsh and jealous mistress. She does not tolerate other games, (or families, social lives) very well. [:D]

Welcome aboard, Bill! [8D]




dr.hal -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (4/30/2012 9:37:46 PM)

Bill, we may be "biased toward AE" as you point out. But it is not biased out of ignorance, as many aspect of being biased are, almost all here have played and are very familiar with WitP and we make the recommendation based upon that experience.




LoBaron -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/1/2012 9:26:42 AM)

What dr.hal said. Biased, maybe, but most forumites played WitP already, many are UV veterans as well. Both were good games, and I wouldn´t bother reinstalling
them. It´s an evolutionary process, WitP AE is at the top of the food chain now. No doubt about that.

It is like trying to compare a Spitfire Mk I to an Mk XIV.
You could say it is roughly the same airframe, but, whew, you wouldn´t want a 1 vs. 1 with these... [:D]




dr.hal -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/1/2012 1:11:53 PM)

For a minute there LoBaron, I thought you were talking about the car!




jeffk3510 -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/1/2012 6:10:09 PM)

yes.. AE for sure.. I did the math on the rate of turns we're churning out in my PBEM... we're all going to be buds for a loooong time [:D]




LoBaron -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/1/2012 7:36:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

For a minute there LoBaron, I thought you were talking about the car!


Spitfire Triumph? Nice, but I´d rather go for the bikes they got. Was in love with a Speedmaster a while ago. [:)]




wga -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/1/2012 10:44:43 PM)

Thanks to all.

AE is now purchased, rather than starting a WITP, my opponet and I will play AE. Convinced by forum activity is now in AE, and likely software support will continue on AE rather than the earlier. As plan on playing a 1day/turn for 5+ years, may as well start with what is now state of the art. I find UCV a good simplier game and will continue to play that and my scores of boardgame titles at a tournament level on rotating basis. Not sure how much of my computer gaming time will end up spread across UCV, AE, War Between the States, War in the East, Eagle Day to Bombing the Riech. Guess its time to stop buying Grigsby games and just play. Still have fond memories of Bomb Alley, Guadacanal Campaign, USAAF, War in Russia in my Apple IIe era. Playing against a live opponent is the only way to go, the campaign is what I play (will learn lessons as i go).




USS America -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/2/2012 3:33:48 AM)

Bill, it sounds like you are a big UV fan. Give the AE Guadalcanal scenario a spin. It's well put together and can give you and your partner a good exposure to the AE game features in a setting you are already familiar with. [:)]




PizzaMan -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/2/2012 6:43:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wga

Not sure how much of my computer gaming time will end up spread across UCV, AE, War Between the States, War in the East, Eagle Day to Bombing the Riech. Guess its time to stop buying Grigsby games and just play.



WbtS blew a hole in my brain. Probably the most intellectual challenging PC game I've ever played.




wga -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/2/2012 5:41:51 PM)

With three UCV games going, I still tinker playing AI to learn new tricks when in wait mode. But as vs AI play is less rewarding as I am more familaru with the nuances and with the system, I will take Mike's suggestion and try the GC campaign in AE while I wait for my opponents first turn which may appear in a few weeks.

In regards to Pizzamans comment, I am to start another vassal Avalon Hill/Victory Games THE CIVIL WAR pbem game rather than try to tackle WBTS while I am tackling AE. I have a vassal SPI WBTS going, now in July 1863 as well {always dread the cycle bookeeping)

Thanks.




Knavey -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/2/2012 8:47:22 PM)

WGA.

Try the small scenarios with your opponent first. Downfall is NOT a small scenario BTW. This will give you a bit of exposure and they are a lot of fun.




wga -> RE: foolish question; WITP vs WITP-AE (5/7/2012 6:09:21 PM)

So now I have both WITP and WITP-AE. Does a list exist of what 'improvements' were implemented into AE? I wish to evaluate the benefit vs playability of each change. My parallel is Squad leader is a great game. Advanced Squad Leader is a religion to some but all the extra cost greatly negates the playability and actual enjoyment for all except the fanatics; the claim of greater realism is still dubious at best. SAme for War in Europe vs the Europe series. More equals better is debatable. Greater complexity for the sake of 'improvement' is a matter of opinion. I can do a UCV turn in 10 minutes. It takes 20+ minutes just to review combat rules in WITP. I may be an oddity as I am a tournament level player in 20+ (board)game titles; I do not plan on dedicating all my discretionary time to a single game title. However the scope and choices is an attraction. So for the non-fanatic, what is the extra detail in AE?




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