Russians - tips for managing the Minsk pocket? (Full Version)

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DarkFib3r -> Russians - tips for managing the Minsk pocket? (4/1/2012 4:34:33 AM)

As the Russians, I have had a significant amount of my troops to the west of Minsk pocketed by the Germans. While I am not surprised by this, I am wondering if there is an optimal way to manage this situation? For example, I can try to combine my isolated troops into stacks in defensible terrain. Or I can try to create a checkerboard pattern to try to slow the German's attempt to cause these troops to eventually surrender.

On one hand, while combining units and trying to defend on better terrain sounds good in theory, it makes the German's job easier to further tighten the pocket and they will likely be able to use fewer troops to force the pocket's eventual surrender. On the other hand, creating a checkerboard may force more German units to hasty attack and eliminate the pocket, which will slow their drive on other important areas. But the checkerboard will be extremely weak.

I'm curious what others do in this situation.

Cheers,
Jason



Apollo11 -> RE: Russians - tips for managing the Minsk pocket? (4/1/2012 1:44:45 PM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkFib3r

As the Russians, I have had a significant amount of my troops to the west of Minsk pocketed by the Germans. While I am not surprised by this, I am wondering if there is an optimal way to manage this situation? For example, I can try to combine my isolated troops into stacks in defensible terrain. Or I can try to create a checkerboard pattern to try to slow the German's attempt to cause these troops to eventually surrender.

On one hand, while combining units and trying to defend on better terrain sounds good in theory, it makes the German's job easier to further tighten the pocket and they will likely be able to use fewer troops to force the pocket's eventual surrender. On the other hand, creating a checkerboard may force more German units to hasty attack and eliminate the pocket, which will slow their drive on other important areas. But the checkerboard will be extremely weak.

I'm curious what others do in this situation.

Cheers,
Jason


Whatever you do they are doomed... you can only try to postpone the inevitable by placing them to create as many "obstacles" as possible (in best possible terrain to defend / create "obstacle")...


Leo "Apollo11"



DarkFib3r -> RE: Russians - tips for managing the Minsk pocket? (4/1/2012 5:10:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Whatever you do they are doomed... you can only try to postpone the inevitable by placing them to create as many "obstacles" as possible (in best possible terrain to defend / create "obstacle")...



Hi Apollo,

Thanks for taking time to respond. So you would not create a checkerboard in order to take up the most area but would move the units to defensible terrain that the attacker needs to engage to proceed? That makes sense to me and it's how I instinctively play.

I know that the units are doomed inside the pocket, but I want to make them as useful as possible - their mission is to delay the Germans for as long as possible. By combining them into a few strongpoints (strong being a poor term given that they are all isolated and relatively weak) they are quite easy for the Germans to completely encircle and eradicate in perhaps just a few moves with perhaps just a few units, leaving the remainder of the follow-on forces to proceed to their deeper objectives faster. Maybe a checkerboard pattern inside the pocket makes more sense because more Germans may be forced to deal with it compared to having to deal with fewer defended hexes? Since the checkerboard maximizes the area occupied, the Germans may have to use more units and more MPs to wipe it out completely. If this slows their advance more than using a few strongpoints, and given that the defenders are doomed anyways, this might be a superior way to delay the Germans. But the checkerboard is weaker and the Germans may be able to eradicate it with just as many (or perhaps even fewer) units than they would a few strongpoints.

Since the troops in the pocket are doomed anyways, do you think a checkerboard pattern for these troops is viable?

Cheers,
Jason



Disciple -> RE: Russians - tips for managing the Minsk pocket? (4/1/2012 5:28:15 PM)

I use a combination of both tactics. Stack units on any remaining level 2 forts and spread out the remaining units, typicaly about half of the total, to maximise the number of attacks needed to clear the pocket. I recommend you stack any Corp HQ's with subordinate units, preferably in the forts, so any support units will defend by default, even though this may on face value reduce the CV of the stack overall.



Disciple -> RE: Russians - tips for managing the Minsk pocket? (4/1/2012 5:47:22 PM)

You may find that the Germans will bypass some of the pocketed units - the Germans won't consider them a threat and they're in a hurry to get the infantry to the panzers. The Germans will kill off these hapless units using 2nd army or other reinforcement units in a later turn. If this situation arises I invade Poland / Rumania with them to destroy as much of the axis rail net as possible in the time they have left. you may be able to extend the German resupply for 2 to 3 turns by doing this and you lose nothing that you wouldn't do anyway.



Apollo11 -> RE: Russians - tips for managing the Minsk pocket? (4/2/2012 11:52:48 AM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkFib3r

Since the troops in the pocket are doomed anyways, do you think a checkerboard pattern for these troops is viable?


Whatever you do that takes away "time" (aka MPs in WitE world) from the enemy is good!


Leo "Apollo11"



Klydon -> RE: Russians - tips for managing the Minsk pocket? (4/2/2012 2:09:46 PM)

I don't stack units. I do look to try to choke off advancement lanes for the German infantry (IE, flip some of the territory back to Russian control which forces German infantry to go through tougher terrain). Invasion of Poland is useful if you can damage rail lines, otherwise, not worth it in most cases. You should also look to try to get next to or on rail lines that are being repaired by the Germans.

Units in the eastern side of the pocket, I generally try to head for my own lines while also trying to narrow the path to the German panzers. You won't slow them down in the first couple of turns, but you do make them burn their own supplies more fully and cause truck losses to go up. It is not a lot, but every bit helps.

I don't really worry about trying to "hide" in more defensible terrain if I can accomplish more useful tasks. To a point, it is more productive to make the Germans go through tougher terran (burning more movement points) to get to you is a "win".



Q-Ball -> RE: Russians - tips for managing the Minsk pocket? (4/2/2012 2:12:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Disciple

... If this situation arises I invade Poland / Rumania with them to destroy as much of the axis rail net as possible in the time they have left. you may be able to extend the German resupply for 2 to 3 turns by doing this and you lose nothing that you wouldn't do anyway.


Whatever you do, don't invade Hungary to tear up rail. It will activate all the frozen Italian and Hungarian units; you don't want to do that. Not sure what the rules are in Romania, but I would stay away from that as well; there is no sense activating a bunch of frozen units.



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