Night fighters (Full Version)

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kingtiger_501 -> Night fighters (2/21/2012 10:43:59 AM)

I have experienced my 1st attacks at night in the 43 camp and I have noticed that my night fighters rarely engage the enemy in air to air combat. It would be safe to say that I would shoot down 1 plane and lose about 5 due to landing. Am I missing or doing something wrong here?

Thanks in advance




npsergio -> RE: Night fighters (2/21/2012 5:30:23 PM)

I'm not completely sure, as I'm a green noob, but I think that it's ok like that. You'll see how uneffective are your night fighters! Sometimes, however, your fighters will be able to down a good ammount of enemy bombers. I think that there are some keys:
- You need some time for your planes to track the bomber stream
- You need some technological advantage in your radar equipment
- Moonlight will help you
I hope that a more experienced player answer this post to know If I'm right or I miss something else ;)




wildweasel0585 -> RE: Night fighters (2/21/2012 6:33:08 PM)

npsergio is right.
kingtiger, the reason you may be loosing a lot of planes during landing is because of weather. Thick dense low clouds over your airfields may be the cause of your landing crashes. Don't expect to down tons of plans with your night fighters. The most planes I've shot down at night is about 8.





kingtiger_501 -> RE: Night fighters (2/21/2012 11:38:30 PM)

quote:

You need some time for your planes to track the bomber stream


Can you please explain this in more detail please?

quote:

You need some technological advantage in your radar equipment


How is this done and how will I know it?








Denniss -> RE: Night fighters (2/22/2012 1:35:50 AM)

In the older Talonsoft version it was most effective to have them staggered at different alts above your cities in small groups.




npsergio -> RE: Night fighters (2/22/2012 6:43:41 AM)

In the NJG screen you'll see your radar equipment. I'm not sure, but probably you'll be equiped with the FuG 202 radar that have a range of only 2 miles, 8% effectiveness that is reduced by window devices... So your planes need to follow the beeps they receive in their radars for a long time until they really adquired a target.
Later in the game your planes will be equiped with better radars, like the FuG 212 (Range 2,5, Eff:9), the FuG 220 SN-2 (R:4, Eff:40) and FuG 240 Berlin (R:5, Eff:50, available at 1945).
Of course, allied planes electronic warfare systems will be also improved.
Thake a look to your NJG from time to time to see how they improve their equipment, and produce the new models...
Again I'm not sure... As I told you, I'm only a noob.




Turner -> RE: Night fighters (2/22/2012 5:08:08 PM)

Try to build the He219A-2 as early as you can, it is very effective compared to the night fighters you start out with. Historically it was not built in large enough numbers to really affect the outcome of the night bombing campaign. It's just another one of many 'what ifs' on the german side. Any Bf110 production (of any type) is truly a waste of industrial capacity.

I'm currently in a PBEM '43 campaign and shot down 130 night bombers on turn #145, losing only 5 He219s. Actually the numbers are misleading, since a good portion of those crashed on egress because of damage and bad weather. However the 219 was/is very capable, and it shows ingame.




kingtiger_501 -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 9:38:44 AM)

I like the Do 335A-6 and was thinking of equipping my night fighters with it.

Why do you chose the He219A-2 over the Do 335A-6?








Turner -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 10:02:05 AM)

Well, two reasons. First of all, availability date. The He219A-2 is historically available already in December '43 which is early in the game. The Do335A-6 is not available until March '45 (!) which means you will need to build 1200 of them to push the date forward to March '44, which more than 6 months down the road from a '43 campaign start. To build that number of the Do335 in 6 months time is not impossible, you need theoretically ~7 per day practically perhaps 8 is required, per day. This means 16 engines per day towards research. 12/24 per day to make it available in 4 months time btw. If you feel it to be worth it, go for it! I have not tried that route yet but perhaps I will in some campaign in the future.

Secondly, a drawback of the Do335A-6 is that it is not equipped with the Schrägemusik setup, guns firing upwards. So it must rely on standard forward firing guns to down bombers potentially making it more vulnerable to return fire. It would be interesting to hear from someone who have tried the Do335A-6.

The He219A-2 however is available already by Dec '43 and require little, if any, research to be made available early. Both types require 2 engines so that is not a factor when comparing the two. The 219 is equipped with Schrägemusik cannons, is a effective night interceptor and does the job well.




kingtiger_501 -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 12:41:58 PM)

My excel sheet didnt have the date and I presumed it could be built in 43!! I must be tired as I should know that the Do335A was late war.

Have you tried the Ju 388 ?




Turner -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 2:01:43 PM)

The Ju388J? Its historical date is also March '45 so it has the same problem. He219 remain the most viable option imho.




Denniss -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 5:25:06 PM)

In reality the He 219 A-2 was not available until spring/summer 1944. I also doubt the FuG 202/212 where that short-ranged




Turner -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 6:25:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

In reality the He 219 A-2 was not available until spring/summer 1944.


According to what source?




Denniss -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 8:22:41 PM)

Real world production data.
http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/RLM/RLMMar44.html
There's only one entry for the He 219 in March 1944 and that's still the A-0. Production of the A-0 ended after at least 104 aircraft were produced, the majority of them in Vienna. Most of the A-2 were built in Rostock though.

BTW no trace of an A-5 (three-seater) serial production but we may never know as lots of 1945 documentation was lost. The last known version to be in serial production was the A-7.




npsergio -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 8:23:59 PM)

About the radars' ranges... I don't know the real ranges, but in te old 12 o'clock game's notes that is the radar range. Even I don't know if BTR uses the same radar statistics...




kingtiger_501 -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 8:59:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

The Ju388J? Its historical date is also March '45 so it has the same problem. He219 remain the most viable option imho.


Is there a more up to date spread sheet for AC arrival times? The spread sheet I have is has arrival date as the 3/44.

Mine seems to be incomplete or incorrect.




cohimbra -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 9:12:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kingtiger_501
Is there a more up to date spread sheet for AC arrival times? The spread sheet I have is has arrival date as the 3/44.

Mine seems to be incomplete or incorrect.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2255748

download the attachment at first post.




npsergio -> RE: Night fighters (2/23/2012 9:23:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kingtiger_501

quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

The Ju388J? Its historical date is also March '45 so it has the same problem. He219 remain the most viable option imho.


Is there a more up to date spread sheet for AC arrival times? The spread sheet I have is has arrival date as the 3/44.

Mine seems to be incomplete or incorrect.



The second post is very useful. A very good excel app to manage production. A database with the engines, and air components needed for each plane model, and also a date for each plane.




kingtiger_501 -> RE: Night fighters (2/24/2012 4:16:19 AM)

I like Do 335A-6 and Ju 388.

What one would be regarded as the best night fighter and why?






npsergio -> RE: Night fighters (2/24/2012 6:41:41 AM)

Both are different planes...
Do335A6 have more speed, but is lightly armed.
Ju388 have an higher ceiling, and it have more weapons.
But probably it's easier to produce the Ju388, it uses Ju88 parts and FW190's BMW801D2 engine.




kingtiger_501 -> RE: Night fighters (2/26/2012 10:02:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

In the older Talonsoft version it was most effective to have them staggered at different alts above your cities in small groups.


Is this tactic still the most effective?

This area is the weakness of my defense.




npsergio -> RE: Night fighters (2/29/2012 5:41:39 PM)

I send my single pilot NJ to patrol over the targets. Searchlights will help them to fight the stream. That's the Wild Boar tactic.
I send the two engines NJ to intercept the bomber stream. They'll use their radars to find their targets. That the Tame boar tactic.
I use both tactics... They are not very effectives... You need luck and moon light to help them.




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