Plea for smaller scenarios! (Full Version)

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kam99 -> Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/26/2012 7:03:08 PM)

Can I please make a request for smaller scenarios for those still not familiar with the system.

I have bought RDOA, HTTR, COTA and BFTB. I will probably also buy the latest expansion. However, I am still daunted by the system and would love to be able to play around with a scenario involving say a battalion, to get familiar with it.

Judging by some of the comments on the Wargamer forum about the expansion, I am not alone. Others have bought the game and are intimidated by it.

In the original HTTR there was a very small scenario involving a reinforced parachute regiment battalion. I played it to death. It is probably the only scenario in the series that I have played from beginning to end. Is that in the expansion by any chance?

Great series. I wish I was smart enough to play it!




Lieste -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/26/2012 7:36:24 PM)

I'm not sure about whether that scenario got in, I haven't been able to do any significant testing of the final release version...

But I would note that CO:BftB or the earlier COTA/HTTR/RDOA were very scaleable - it was never absolutely necessary to issue large volumes of orders, and a span of command of 4-5 'units' was adequate for most scenarios (the AI controlling the subordinate units to accomplish the desired 'grand-plan'). Eg 3 Regts plus Reserves and Divisional troops for a Divisional attack (5 units), 2 Lead Regiments, 2 'Division Rumps', Corps Reserve and Artillery/HQ (5 units, with Corps Reserve released as 1-2 additional order groups if committed to combat).

I tend to run with a few more order-groups, because I have a more particular plan that the AI sometimes messes up, so I'll break each regiment into 3-4 'groups' with each Battalion being one 'order group' and the Rgt HQ and supports (artillery & supply) being a separate cluster of elements supporting their allocated subunits by proximity and using my assessment of the front-line and safe areas. Reserve units, administrative moves, reorganisations and resting at night can be accomplished by single order groups for a whole regiment or division at a time, so only during tactical movements and assaults at the front line would I break the force down so much with individual tasks. Each order during an assault would be a simple chain of waypoints (long-ish, but a single 'day's' movement for exploiting armour, and short and achievable single-attack objectives for each battalion attack, with up to 3-4 hitting a single area held by a few companies of enemy troops from various directions and to increasing depth, each regrouping, moving and then re-attacking after success). Because of this I usually have 20-30 orders in place, but they are simple and will run without interference to completion, allowing me to modify those that require attention without any pressure of time.

It must be said that a sound overall plan, that forces the enemy to react, while not being overly sensitive to unexpected minor setbacks is a prerequisite for 'easy' success - if the enemy has the sound plan, and is forcing you to react 'after the fact' then the order delays and limited intel picture will make it very hard to regain the initiative.




simovitch -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/26/2012 8:28:25 PM)

So, assuming BFTB's "Hofen Ho-Down" is considered small...

You will have 3 small scenarios in the HTTR pack - one is "Joes Bridge" covering the capture of the famous bridge by the Irish Guards. Another is "Arnhem second wave" covering just the defense of the drop zones against Tettau's attack, and the other is "Molenhoek Counter-Attack" covering the German attack out of the Reichswald against the 82nd on the Groesbeek heights. All historical scenarios less than 3 days long, with each side having no more than a division in size.[8D]




Lieste -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/26/2012 9:33:37 PM)

I think he may have been thinking of the old "Raid on Renkum" with a Brigade force?




simovitch -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/26/2012 11:05:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieste

I think he may have been thinking of the old "Raid on Renkum" with a Brigade force?

Yes probably.

Re: HTTR scenarios that didn't make it to the upgrade. You know I could have fairly easily cranked out all of those old HTTR variants and hypothetical scenarios but I just felt it was superfelous.... Personal preference as I never bothered with them much as an HTTR player. The hyporthetical ones I did choose for the remake were selected because they were particularly well done IMO.




wodin -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/26/2012 11:54:32 PM)

I loved some of the smaller scenarios in CotA, I think that was another reason why i prefered over HTTR that and the new UI features.

I find I get immersed more with smaller sized scenarios. I love say a brigade sized scanrio that lasts a few days, so I can get my teeth into it rather than just a day or so. I can really get into the detail of each and every unit and follow them through their trials and tribulations, I also have the time as well to use my imagination on exactly what is going on down there with my little pixeltruppen, where with the larger ones I become more detached and sometimes it does become alot of little squares jiggling around. I find it hard to follow the unit's in any detail and never get attached to any (the odd time maybe). I suppose maybe it is similar to a General in WW1, and I suppose WW2 to a lesser extent. The human element goes out the window and it's just counters being pushed around a map. Immersion is one reason why I prefer tactical games, but the Panther games smaller sized scenarios (though not finishing to soon) can drag me right in aswell.

So I'm all for smaller sized scenarios that last a few days. Where everyone else gets excited about a huge map (Take the new HHTR scenario) and loads of units to me that usually either ends in a mental paralysis or as I said it just becomes aload of counters that I find difficult to keep track of thus the immersion can go out the window.




jomni -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/27/2012 1:03:26 AM)

Since the game plays by itself quite well, I have a feature request.
Similar to games like Take Command or Scourge of War, it would be cool if you can just choose the role a brigade commander for example and take orders from higher up (AI).  Your scoring is how well you perform the orders and not really the total outcome of the battle as what we have now.

So when you add this feature, there will be many ways to play a battle and will keep us coming back for more.




Johnnie -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/27/2012 1:06:27 AM)

I'm pretty sure they exist for both the game and the expansion (charts listing size and complexity of each scenario.) Can anyone point me to them? Thanks.




JiminyJickers -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/27/2012 9:04:09 AM)

Some more simpler scenarios would definitely be appreciated. I have played the tutorial in BftB so many times and am a bit scared of some of the other ones.

Probably have to have a go at making some myself. But feel like it would be a bit to tricky with my current experience level in the game.




Bletchley_Geek -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/27/2012 10:11:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Johnnie

I'm pretty sure they exist for both the game and the expansion (charts listing size and complexity of each scenario.) Can anyone point me to them? Thanks.


Here's the link for you Johnnie

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2479970




wodin -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/27/2012 11:57:42 AM)

As I said I think it's why I love CotA as it has I think a lot more small sized scenario that play out over three days or so. Even though the theater doesn't really interest me. I want them really for immersion more than anything, the small one day ones are over to quickly though.

I do hope the EF title has a fair number of scenarios this size. However I think most like bigger is better, hence the fanfare about the mega HTTR scenario..which for me is one I wouldn't bother with.




phoenix -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/27/2012 12:56:30 PM)

I think Sweeteye did some small scenarios, no? Not sure they would work in this though, and never tried them yet. I like big, I'm afraid...




wodin -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/27/2012 4:07:30 PM)

Sweeteye did but they all last a day or day and a half..plus they are smaller than the ones I'm thinking off...I want a brigade, say three or four battalions over three or four days....enough units to easily manage and keep an eye on. I think more info feedback by way of sitreps is need on the larger scenarios with loads of units, that way you know whats going on and where and if your attention is needed somewhere urgently, also good sitreps that can be filtered what be a great way for the game to inform whats going on with your pixel troops...

I see you wanted an even bigger map which to me would just be overload and the immersion would drop off to zero...it is a state of mind though, however I can guarantee that with scenarios the size I prefer I will have a great time but with a large scenario there is a chance I lose immersion and it just becomes a load of jumbled up squares. The great thing about the game though is you have the choice of operational or grand tactical.




Major SNAFU -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/27/2012 4:09:54 PM)

Um,

Perhaps I am mis-reading something. But I think the request was for a fold that showed the rankings for all the scenarios in all of the games, then file linked to in the thread indicated only ranks the scenarios for BftB. Markshot give numbers for the COTA and original HttR scenarios, but there isn't an actual breakdown of them in the excel file.

Unless I am missing something, which is always a possibility...




Johnnie -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/28/2012 3:35:41 PM)

Bletchley_Geek:

Thank you.




Bletchley_Geek -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/28/2012 4:04:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Major SNAFU

Um,

Perhaps I am mis-reading something. But I think the request was for a fold that showed the rankings for all the scenarios in all of the games, then file linked to in the thread indicated only ranks the scenarios for BftB. Markshot give numbers for the COTA and original HttR scenarios, but there isn't an actual breakdown of them in the excel file.

Unless I am missing something, which is always a possibility...



In the thread I linked Markshot comments that he posted the raw data for HttR on the HttR forum.




JW -> RE: Plea for smaller scenarios! (1/29/2012 5:18:48 PM)

I'll add that I like the smaller scenarios, too.  I played Raid on Renkum more than any other HTTR scenario and just loved it.  In fact my favorite single game ever ended up with one isolated British para company on the eastern edge of town holding off German armor attacking at point blank range for a couple of hours near the end of the game.  My para brigade was used up and the Germans would probably have rolled up my entire position and broken into the main objective at the center of town if that company broke.  I had no one left to send due to some unexpected German attacks and some of my own mistakes.  Yet the company held, barely.




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