Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (Full Version)

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adamsolo -> Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/4/2012 11:23:43 PM)

This was always something I had doubts with but never bother much to clarify, until now.

How is trade income calculated? I mean, you have the annual "Foreign Trade Bonuses" income in the Empire Summary Screen. In my current game it shows 9K, however in the Diplomacy Screen I get indication of 7K trade income from one race and 26K from another (annual trade volume, I checked the manual).

The figures don't add up to the 9K shown on the "Foreign Trade Bonuses" in the Empire Screen.

So, what am I missing here? How can I know how much annual revenue I'm doing from trade with other races?

Thanks in advance.




adamsolo -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/5/2012 2:15:38 PM)

So, I guess this is even more obvious than I thought :) That, or ... nobody knows?

Can any generous soul here help me understand why trade in the diplomacy screen doesn't add up with foreign trade bonus in the empire screen? They should both reflect annual trade income no?




Gargoil -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/5/2012 3:18:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo

This was always something I had doubts with but never bother much to clarify, until now.

How is trade income calculated? I mean, you have the annual "Foreign Trade Bonuses" income in the Empire Summary Screen. In my current game it shows 9K, however in the Diplomacy Screen I get indication of 7K trade income from one race and 26K from another (annual trade volume, I checked the manual).

The figures don't add up to the 9K shown on the "Foreign Trade Bonuses" in the Empire Screen.

So, what am I missing here? How can I know how much annual revenue I'm doing from trade with other races?

Thanks in advance.


I believe (not totally sure) that the trade indicated with each empire is lifetime total. The Economic screen is Annual Total.




adamsolo -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/5/2012 6:49:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gargoil


quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo

This was always something I had doubts with but never bother much to clarify, until now.

How is trade income calculated? I mean, you have the annual "Foreign Trade Bonuses" income in the Empire Summary Screen. In my current game it shows 9K, however in the Diplomacy Screen I get indication of 7K trade income from one race and 26K from another (annual trade volume, I checked the manual).

The figures don't add up to the 9K shown on the "Foreign Trade Bonuses" in the Empire Screen.

So, what am I missing here? How can I know how much annual revenue I'm doing from trade with other races?

Thanks in advance.


I believe (not totally sure) that the trade indicated with each empire is lifetime total. The Economic screen is Annual Total.

Thanks for your reply Gargoil, that would make sense, however it seems that it's not the case, at least judging from the Legend's Manual where it is stated (in the Diplomacy Screen section) "Each row (each alien empire) also shows total annual trade volume between the selected empire and the empire corresponding to the row. (page 72)"

Anyone else has a shot on this? :|




Litjan -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/5/2012 7:25:55 PM)

I think no one knows except for Elliott.

And since there is absolutely nothing you can do to influence those numbers (except for the obvious steps of forming trade agreements), it isnīt really important. Itīs not like you can build anything to improve trade or tell your private sector to empasize trading with a certain empire... They do whatever they think is right, so the numbers are just relative numbers. If trade with one empire is 10k and another empire has 20k - itīs twice the trade :-)





adamsolo -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/5/2012 9:13:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Litjan

I think no one knows except for Elliott.

And since there is absolutely nothing you can do to influence those numbers (except for the obvious steps of forming trade agreements), it isnīt really important. Itīs not like you can build anything to improve trade or tell your private sector to empasize trading with a certain empire... They do whatever they think is right, so the numbers are just relative numbers. If trade with one empire is 10k and another empire has 20k - itīs twice the trade :-)


Yes, but so it seems that 32K from race A and 7K from race B is not 39K but 11K or something. So, what a hell means 32K from race A in the end? From what I can tell I may be getting the full 7K from race B and only 4K from race A. Guess nobody is really worried about this but me anyway.

There's really not much we can do to influence trade as you say but the point is that we should know from whom are we benefiting more from free trade agreements. As far as I can tell probably there's no point (or a better word is confidence) in trading with a race, even if it says 24K in the diplomacy screen.

Let's wait for the devs then.




feelotraveller -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/6/2012 7:54:24 AM)

Hi Adam I am not totally over this but...

I believe the 32k you refer to is the volume of trade with foreign empires. You get a percentage of this for your empire once you have free trade agreement or better. Before negotiating a trade treaty you will find 0k listed on the empire screen although you have may have a trade amount on the diplomacy screen. Now there are a variety of percentages and bonuses which factor into your empire bonus from trade - FTA or MDP, a percentage if trade is conducted at a base of yours with a commerce centre, leader bonuses (and/or governor bonuses), racial bonuses, that's off the top of my head so I have probably overlooked something... Then these factors are summed, I would suspect multiplied rather than added but I don't really know. So can you find bonuses which will mulitiply out to 1/3 approx of 32k to give 11k? Remember that these are rounded figures and some information will be next to impossible to come by (in a real game situation) such as the amount of trade flowing through your bases.

Totally fine for someone to jump in and explain how I have it all wrong. Or for you to explain how I have misunderstood the question. Just thought I'd have a stab since you seemed real keen for an answer. [:)]

Edit: to be clear - your private sector does the trade and your state sector can skim off a percentage of this (I poorly called both of these things your empire above). And diplomats can also give trade bonuses.




adamsolo -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/6/2012 10:01:44 AM)

Thanks for your take on this feelotraveller.

I confirm that in the Legends manual the diplomacy screen trade states "trade volume". So, this means that you're most probably right and that that value is the total trade your private sector is obtaining (not the money we - state - are cashing-in). Now, from there things start to get fuzzy. For instance, in the manual about “State Port Income” (clearly a typo, it should read "Space Port Income") in the Empire screen it is said "both private ship purchases and space port transaction fees for the current year". So, where do these "space port transaction fees" come into all of this story, and why doesn't that get included in the "foreign trade bonuses" in the same empire screen? [:(]

Now, questions.

1. Are you sure that the state only cashes-in trade money when we have FTAs or MDPs? Sometimes there is trade happening, even with hostile races. We (meaning state) don't get anything from that?

2. Yes, there are all those not-so-linear trade bonuses (economy centers, characters bonuses, racial bonuses). Not so linear because we don't know if they add-up or multiply as you mention. So, my only worry would be. Are we absolutely confident that if we are making more trade volume with an empire that means that we are obtaining more state revenue from those guys? Would this be linear? Probably not because that would depend on which space ports have economy centers on, and where embassador characters may be giving an extra trade percentage.

3. The ticket key to close all this discussion would be to know what % does the state get from the total trade volume. I wouldn't mind to have a good popup or tooltip with a few more numbers to further break trade numbers. Although the % and the exact formulas are not that critical to have to have fun I guess, it still would be cool information to know in my opinion.

Thanks again for the both of you for your replies on this.




feelotraveller -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/6/2012 2:34:51 PM)

1. Yes as sure as can be. The state does not get money unless there is some sort of trade agreement (though see below). You can still benefit from imported luxuries or access to strategic resources you do not have/do not have nearby. The percentage you are getting is listed in fine print above the trade volume. Note that this is not always balanced reciprocally - the Teekan, for example, seem to always make more off me than I make off them! How (precisely) other bonuses effect this percentage is a good question...

2. On second thoughts perhaps the commerce centers are a red herring here and their income is not part of the foreign trade bonus? Certainly they add to the space port income total. I have repeatedly noted at the beginning of a game that luxuries transported internally give a small bonus. About 1/2 credit per luxury unit (although this may be dependent on price I suspect). But you also get this bonus percentage from sales made to independent/foreign empires. What I am not sure about is how this is accounted in the information screens. But on the general question of linearity you are right. Colony govenors will only increase the trade income at their colony, etc. But location specific bonuses aside the increase in foreign trade bonuses should scale with total volume of trade.

3. Yep. That would end our speculation and could be very useful.




adamsolo -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (1/6/2012 3:48:33 PM)

Thanks for your clarifications and thoughts on this feelotraveller. They surely helped me clarify a few things.




Ktulu -> RE: Foreign Trade Bonuses Question (10/15/2013 5:21:10 PM)

I believe that the Trade Volume you see in the diplomatic overview is the total annual volume of PRIVATE trade being conducted (trade is a non-state activity), the trade income is what your state is pocketing through tax & tariff (by means of commerce centers at stations & ports, I assume).

So improving your commerce center tech will boost the percentage of civilian trade you take as profit, while boosting total trade volume (through FTAs, through acquiring more luxury and strategic resources to trade, through having space ports near the ports of other empires, etc) increases the overall volume of civilian trade you are dipping into.

My thoughts, anyway.




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