JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc (Full Version)

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n01487477 -> JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc (10/21/2011 2:04:49 PM)

Hi guys -
I'm putting together a document to help new players get to grips with the Japanese economic system. I think some of it is very verbose and technical. Probably a huge turn off, which is not what I wanted.

Maybe some of it needs culling or rewriting. Anyway, it isn't final yet. And when it is, I hope that the checklist idea that I've just started will be all that most need to get something started. The rest of it could be read at one's pleasure for understanding.
Doc
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/Draft.doc
Pdf
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/Draft.pdf

Comments and suggestions welcome. Corrections too. I know we all do things slightly differently. Please take this in the spirit that I offer it. A guide for beginners. (Even if it needs to have a re-write to become one[;)])

Regards,

[edit] Noted that the pic's were a bit bad so re-did them. The Pdf looks better than the doc version.
[edit] Just updated the doc a bit... will continue to update ...
[update] Save file - completed orders up till the airframe sequence
Scen 1, R&D realistic
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/wpae005.pws
Airframes complete
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17642556/wpae006.pws




Mike Solli -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/21/2011 2:14:03 PM)

I'll check it out today. Thanks! [:D]




Erkki -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/21/2011 2:15:58 PM)

Any chance of a .pdf or say a .htm? [;)]




Mike Solli -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/21/2011 2:20:43 PM)

Erkki, PM me your email and I'll send you a PDF.




1EyedJacks -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 3:30:26 AM)

Hey Damian,

I like what you've got going so far - it's a very good start. When you are talking about convoys I think you might want to put in a paragraph or two regarding suplies & spoilage.

Maybe another paragraph regarding supplies needed for troops (movment & combat) and Air HQ needs for torpedoes?

I liked your info regarding fuel mileage. I've never considered that before. I was more interested in making sure I had the right convoy size for the job and I was trying to keep most of the convoys using a similar endurance and speed.

TTFN,

Mike




n01487477 -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 5:47:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

Hey Damian,

I like what you've got going so far - it's a very good start. When you are talking about convoys I think you might want to put in a paragraph or two regarding supplies & spoilage.

OK - yeah should have done. Thx.
quote:


Maybe another paragraph regarding supplies needed for troops (movment & combat) and Air HQ needs for torpedoes?

Didn't want to get too much into that - but I think it is worth mentioning.
quote:


I liked your info regarding fuel mileage. I've never considered that before. I was more interested in making sure I had the right convoy size for the job and I was trying to keep most of the convoys using a similar endurance and speed.

TTFN,

Mike


Update both the doc and pdf - as I felt I got the Convoy system a little too balanced & short to begin with.Made a mistake with the Shanghai-Sasebo run and fuel measurements were a little off. This is all testing for a Tracker cargo screenie. Anyway, I really wanted to haul out some Res, not just maintain levels ...
Cheers,




Mac Linehan -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 6:13:09 AM)

Damian -

Really good stuff - I shall read it carefully!

Mac

Edit:

Just did a first read thru - a first class piece of work. I will use it as a reference, Thank You for all your work - please keep at it.

Mac




SierraJuliet -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 11:48:35 AM)

Good work Damian.  I'll be including this in my list of material to get my head around.




n01487477 -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 11:53:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SierraJuliet

Good work Damian.  I'll be including this in my list of material to get my head around.

Thanks S.J -
It's been a while ...

Come back when it's complete...

Cheers - hope all is well.




pws1225 -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 2:48:13 PM)

Thanks Damien - This is great stuff for JFBs. I'm looking forward to your updates.

Regards, Paul




SuluSea -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 2:50:23 PM)

Very nice work Damian. Thanks!

The focus on fuel in resource convoys makes too much sense and is an avenue that I haven't given much consideration to better conserve fuel.




DivePac88 -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 6:04:04 PM)

Thanks there Damian, as this is real handy, especially for an old dunce think me.

[image]local://upfiles/30275/AAE2B91B6AE84D37AD9BCC92D7D6C0D7.gif[/image]




USS America -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 6:31:11 PM)

Thanks for putting this together, Damien.  Maybe this will be the boost I need to start looking at the world from the Dark Side.  [:)]




Mac Linehan -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 8:16:43 PM)

Hi, Damien!

I am playing Babes v08 C ("The C version also includes a modified ship Class file (wpcxxx.dat) that substantially reduces the cargo capacities of ships"). Thus just a gut feeling that I should build as many ships as possible. Would you have any thoughts on how much I should expand my MSYards to cover the cost of a full build plan?

I will do the homework, and read the tracker shipbuilding documentation, to get a better understanding of how it all works.

Any thoughts are very much appreciated.

Mac





Mike Solli -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 8:19:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

Hi, Damien!

I am playing Babes v08 C ("The C version also includes a modified ship Class file (wpcxxx.dat) that substantially reduces the cargo capacities of ships"). Thus just a gut feeling that I should build as many ships as possible. Would you have any thoughts on how much I should expand my MSYards to cover the cost of a full build plan?



Assuming production is the same as stock (I suspect it's different) you would be good with what you have but don't accelerate anything using merchant points. Tracker shows you a nice graph that will tell you if you have enough points to cover all the ships.




JWE -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 8:47:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
Hi, Damien!

I am playing Babes v08 C ("The C version also includes a modified ship Class file (wpcxxx.dat) that substantially reduces the cargo capacities of ships"). Thus just a gut feeling that I should build as many ships as possible. Would you have any thoughts on how much I should expand my MSYards to cover the cost of a full build plan?

I will do the homework, and read the tracker shipbuilding documentation, to get a better understanding of how it all works.

Any thoughts are very much appreciated.

Mac

Don't know if this will help you or not Mac, but the merchie cargo caps of Babes C were reduced by a uniform 33% (i.e., a 6000 goes to 4000, a 3000 goes to 2000, etc...). Maybe Tracker captures this but if not, it's just a mental 2/3 kinda thing.




Mac Linehan -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/22/2011 9:05:18 PM)

Mike,

Thank You, - good advice.

JWE -

Orig:

"Don't know if this will help you or not Mac, but the merchie cargo caps of Babes C were reduced by a uniform 33% (i.e., a 6000 goes to 4000, a 3000 goes to 2000, etc...). Maybe Tracker captures this but if not, it's just a mental 2/3 kinda thing."

JWE - very clear and concise - Thank You!

Mac




n01487477 -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/23/2011 12:56:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
Hi, Damien!

I am playing Babes v08 C ("The C version also includes a modified ship Class file (wpcxxx.dat) that substantially reduces the cargo capacities of ships"). Thus just a gut feeling that I should build as many ships as possible. Would you have any thoughts on how much I should expand my MSYards to cover the cost of a full build plan?

I will do the homework, and read the tracker shipbuilding documentation, to get a better understanding of how it all works.

Any thoughts are very much appreciated.

Mac

Don't know if this will help you or not Mac, but the merchie cargo caps of Babes C were reduced by a uniform 33% (i.e., a 6000 goes to 4000, a 3000 goes to 2000, etc...). Maybe Tracker captures this but if not, it's just a mental 2/3 kinda thing.

Yeah it does ... Thanks to all for your comments. Back to work tomorrow so I'll work on it again in my spare time and release it again later..

Cheers -




cavalry -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/23/2011 1:28:00 PM)

I hope this kind of thing makes it into the new manual due Christmas:)




dorjun driver -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/23/2011 5:54:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I hope this kind of thing makes it into the new manual due Christmas:)

Is Hell due to freeze over at that time of year?




LoBaron -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/23/2011 6:09:23 PM)

Thank you VERY much!

My time is too limited to get to Jap Economy by learning by doing. Highly apprechiated!




hartwig.modrow -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/23/2011 9:25:14 PM)

Damian,

thank you so much for drafting this. It may help to bring me to the dark side, so I'll finally be able to serve the emperor [sm=character0169.gif].

Hartwig




Graymane -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/24/2011 5:02:01 PM)

I liked your analysis of fuel usage. It took me awhile to work it out. Do you think it might be more useful to show fuel efficiency as "Miles Per Endurance" instead of the inverse?

On the exercise for putting together the shipping, I got kinda got lost starting on page 7. You talk about ports, then about engineers, then back to ships and I more or less got lost trying to figure out why some of the decisions were being made. I'm sure the experienced Jap players could follow along well, but not me [:)]

Overall, it is a great guide though! On the other hand, it reinforces why I'm still playing the allies [;)]




5thGuardsTankArmy -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/24/2011 9:11:38 PM)

[:)]




fcharton -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/24/2011 10:56:50 PM)

Hi Damian,

Very interesting stuff, thanks a lot.

About convoys, I think it is important to note that whereas fuel efficiency (cargo.miles / fuel use) plays an important role for long shipping lanes, speed is just as crucial. Faster convoys mean quicker turnaround, less ships in the lane, and less fuel burnt. This makes fast ships like the Kyushus even more efficient than CM/F ratios suggest (and slow boats like the Gozan even worse than they seem).

This said, speed and fuel usage only matter for long lanes (which one would try to minimize anyway). For short trips, transit time (and fuel use) is dominated by loading/unloading costs, which favour small ships over large ones (in general the smaller the ships, the faster they load).

And since a large fraction of resources move over very short lanes (Korea and Hokkaido), I believe the most important decisions at game start revolve around the allocation of the small xAK and large xAKL. Limiting factors, there, seem to be Honshu port handling limits (eg Ominato).

Francois




n01487477 -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/25/2011 1:55:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

Hi Damian,

Very interesting stuff, thanks a lot.

About convoys, I think it is important to note that whereas fuel efficiency (cargo.miles / fuel use) plays an important role for long shipping lanes, speed is just as crucial. Faster convoys mean quicker turnaround, less ships in the lane, and less fuel burnt. This makes fast ships like the Kyushus even more efficient than CM/F ratios suggest (and slow boats like the Gozan even worse than they seem).

This said, speed and fuel usage only matter for long lanes (which one would try to minimize anyway). For short trips, transit time (and fuel use) is dominated by loading/unloading costs, which favour small ships over large ones (in general the smaller the ships, the faster they load).

And since a large fraction of resources move over very short lanes (Korea and Hokkaido), I believe the most important decisions at game start revolve around the allocation of the small xAK and large xAKL. Limiting factors, there, seem to be Honshu port handling limits (eg Ominato).

Francois


Thanks Francois,
I had considered this (the same as you), just hadn't got around to putting pen to paper and fleshing it out more. I'll definitely include some type of speed/transit time info into the final doc.

Thanks again -




Graymane -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/25/2011 1:26:38 PM)

On other thing I'm just not grokking,

quote:

The table above shows you the pertinent efficiency info Fuel/Mile and
cargo(F/M). Higher numbers are better.


Why are higher numbers better for Fuel/Mile? Wouldn't lower numbers be better? What the heck am I missing?




n01487477 -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/25/2011 1:44:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Graymane

On other thing I'm just not grokking,

quote:

The table above shows you the pertinent efficiency info Fuel/Mile and
cargo(F/M). Higher numbers are better.


Why are higher numbers better for Fuel/Mile? Wouldn't lower numbers be better? What the heck am I missing?

Yes - I made a mistake ... changed ...

The table above shows you the pertinent efficiency info Fuel/Mile and cargo(F/M). Higher numbers are better for Cargo(F/M) and lower is better for fuel/mile.

This is a draft doc, so thanks for the comments and suggestions before.




Mike Solli -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/25/2011 8:14:02 PM)

Why fuel/mile and not fuel/hex. I think in terms of hexes. Maybe I'm just an oddball though....




n01487477 -> RE: Japan Econ 101 setup Draft Doc (10/25/2011 11:29:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Why fuel/mile and not fuel/hex. I think in terms of hexes. Maybe I'm just an oddball though....

In Tracker I have both - just haven't updated this in the doc ...




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