thinking of purchasing (Full Version)

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harrmonica -> thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 3:51:58 PM)

Hi all-

first post. been a long time lurker (especially on the wite section). thinking of purchasing, but the price definitely has me wary. quite frankly, if the price had been south of $50, it would be on my hd by now. i feel like i have done due diligence, looked at aars, monitored the threads, examined screen captures etc. on to my question...i am a little concerned about the accessibility of this game. i am worried about drowning in the minutiae of the gc and getting discouraged. can you delegate tasks to the ai? can you assign armee groups to the ai? how much automating can be done? the eastern front is a favorite of mine (used to play wir a lot), but am worried about paying $90 and finding that there is way too much micromanaging. i am aware that there are smaller scenarios, but am mainly interested in the gc. any help pushing me toward a purchase would be greatly appreciated. thanks a bunch in advance!




Champagne -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 3:59:30 PM)

WitE is very detailed. It is not for general consumption, because it's not a "beer and pretzels" wargame. For many wargamers, it won't be very accessible.

ON the other hand, there are smaller scenarios to enjoy. Perhaps these are accessible. That's hard to say, because, even in the smaller scenarios, the detail remains when it comes to managing support units, commanders, and air doctrine. In my view, even the smaller scenarios will only appeal to the hardcore wargamer with a taste for monster games, but, that's just one opinion.





Josh -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 4:09:05 PM)

As one who dislikes micromanaging too, I'd say go for it. Only the sheer amount of units in the GC might put you off, but all the little details such as Support Units, Fighters, Bombers, Supply, all that does the AI. And since Beta 06 it does an even better job. AI fighterplanes did intercept during traintransport and troopmovements... didn't do *that* before (argh not fair LOL, not supposed to attack *me* during transport... [:)] ) . So basically I move my units, check their distance to supply, move the HQ's and that's about it. Just focussing on the grander picture.
I know the experts do every detail themselves, but I let the AI do that, and it does that pretty well.




harrmonica -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 4:10:44 PM)

Thanks for the response. I do actually like lots of detail, but would appreciate some degree of automation. I guess what I am trying to avoid is the planning and executing of one turn taking five hours to complete.




harrmonica -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 4:14:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

As one who dislikes micromanaging too, I'd say go for it. Only the sheer amount of units in the GC might put you off, but all the little details such as Support Units, Fighters, Bombers, Supply, all that does the AI. And since Beta 06 it does an even better job. AI fighterplanes did intercept during traintransport and troopmovements... didn't do *that* before (argh not fair LOL, not supposed to attack *me* during transport... [:)]). So basically I move my units, check their distance to supply, move the HQ's and that's about it. Just focussing on the grander picture.
I know the experts do every detail themselves, but I let the AI do that, and it does that pretty well.

Thats what I am looking for. Thanks a lot.




Josh -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 4:19:24 PM)

Take for instance Road to Leningrad, a small scenario. That takes, oh, 10 minutes for the first turn. I have played that one several times ofcourse so you do get faster. Larger scenarios take maybe half an hour or so, not because of micromanaging but because I want every unit count, leave no gaps open, things like that. Not very hard for my brain, quite relaxing to do actually. The deeper microstuff is there, if you want it.
I do have no experience with the GC though. That takes longer but certainly nowhere as long as The Operational Art of War "Fire in the East" where a turn can take up to a day to complete...




Garth Vader -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 4:23:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: harrmonica

Thanks for the response. I do actually like lots of detail, but would appreciate some degree of automation. I guess what I am trying to avoid is the planning and executing of one turn taking five hours to complete.


The first turn of the GC would probably take at least that much time. But further turns will go faster.




harrmonica -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 4:24:43 PM)

what I've heard about fire in the east is exactly what I would like to avoid!




harrmonica -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 4:27:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Garth Vader


quote:

ORIGINAL: harrmonica

Thanks for the response. I do actually like lots of detail, but would appreciate some degree of automation. I guess what I am trying to avoid is the planning and executing of one turn taking five hours to complete.


The first turn of the GC would probably take at least that much time. But further turns will go faster.

I can live with that. Appreciate all the responses.




cookie monster -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 4:42:32 PM)

read this http://wac.3aff.edgecastcdn.net/803AFF/witewiki/images/WITETutorialManual.pdf and decide for yourself

zoom out abit first, the interface is near the bottom of the page




Icedawg -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 4:44:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: harrmonica

Thanks for the response. I do actually like lots of detail, but would appreciate some degree of automation. I guess what I am trying to avoid is the planning and executing of one turn taking five hours to complete.


I think it depends on how uptight you are about managing detail. I have to control every tiny factor, so I can spend upwards of 10-20 hrs per turn. If you are more inclined to just wing it and let things fly, you can probably get a turn done in 2-3 hrs.

Edit: I should also strongly to encourage you to buy this game. The initial price tag does seem a bit steep, but if you consider the amount of fun you'll get out of it, the price isn't really all that bad.

Back in my younger (and dumber) days, I wouldn't think twice of dropping a couple hundred bucks on a Friday night out with friends. Even now, taking my wife out for dinner and a movie will exceed the price of this game. So, if I can spend 100 bucks for 6-8 hours of fun on a Friday night, I can definitely spend 80 on this game and have 100s or even 1000s of hours worth of entertainment.




NinetyNine -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 6:00:34 PM)

When I first got the game, I just jumped in and started moving units around and attacking. It was pretty easy to grasp the basics of movement/combat.

Since then, I'd played with a slowly increasing level of micromanagement(attaching brigades, shuffling troops to plan actual offensives, moving commanders, etc), but I just consider that strategy now and it doesn't feel like micromanagement. If I had to start out doing that, I'd have been overwhelmed. The game was still a ton of fun when I was just flinging units around, though. It's just more fun now when my carefully planned assault and exploit across a defended river goes as planned.


Short answer: There are varying degrees of micromanagement required, and a lot of stuff you never really have to do if you choose not to(although it does impact your chances of winning).





Caranorn -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 6:24:04 PM)

I'd say go for it! I was also a bit worried about micro management when I first read about the game. In fact I've found out that many of the things I did not want to delve into in too much detail (like air missions) are decently handled by the ai. When it comes to moving your armies and fighting it out everything is pretty straightforward. Yesterday I started my first campaign game (german 41), the first turn indeed took a quite some time but considering how much there is to do at that time it's not astonishing. Just now I finished turn three in about 2,5 hours (and I spent some time manually ordering air recon as I didn't quite trust the ai)...

In summary, I spend most of my game time right now planning my avenues of attack, which corps to use in the lead and which to use for exploitation, how to best have my infantry follow up (and mop up any pockets left behind the armoured columns) etc. Occasionaly I assign a support unit directly to a division (pioneer, assault gun, flame thrower tank) for a pressing need (like smashing Brest Litowsk quickly), but most of the time I only try to have my corps HQ's close behind my front so the commanders can auto-assign support. Some other small tasks as well, but they take up less than 1/10th of my playing time...

Note, the small scenarios are all also quite interesting to play...

P.S.: Right now I'm micro-managing air-recon as I'm not sure the ai is good enough for the job, but this is only my second game with FoW so I just could be too inexperienced yet...




harrmonica -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 7:29:04 PM)

really great and detailed responses guys. i'll follow my instincts and your advice and go for it. i remember war in russia fondly and this just seems like a big upgrade. i will get in the next few hours. please stayed tuned for my next thread entitled: the game is broken, the winter effects are too strong! [:'(]




cookie monster -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 7:32:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: harrmonica

really great and detailed responses guys. i'll follow my instincts and your advice and go for it. i remember war in russia fondly and this just seems like a big upgrade. i will get in the next few hours. please stayed tuned for my next thread entitled: the game is broken, the winter effects are too strong![:'(]


make sure you try another browser to download if internet explorer dont work. Didnt for me,

BTW the printed manual is only 5 sections of the full e book. This may make you think twice before buying the psyshical package.

I notice the game has been reduced 4 since Christmas.




harrmonica -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 7:42:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster


quote:

ORIGINAL: harrmonica

really great and detailed responses guys. i'll follow my instincts and your advice and go for it. i remember war in russia fondly and this just seems like a big upgrade. i will get in the next few hours. please stayed tuned for my next thread entitled: the game is broken, the winter effects are too strong![:'(]


make sure you try another browser to download if internet explorer dont work. Didnt for me,

BTW the printed manual is only 5 sections of the full e book. This may make you think twice before buying the psyshical package.

I notice the game has been reduced 4 since Christmas.


works in firefox, am sifting through it right now. good to know about the manual-i'll download it either way, but the packaging is always satisfying to get. food for thought.




cookie monster -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 7:46:49 PM)

I used firefox.

You really should upgrade to Beta 103 Version 6 before playing. A number of game changing bugs have been squashed in the Beta's. The last official patch is well outta date.




harrmonica -> RE: thinking of purchasing (3/2/2011 7:49:46 PM)

will do. thanks again and great avatar! 




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