Price presentation moan (Full Version)

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Ellis -> Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 7:06:13 PM)

I wish Matrix would find a way of telling me, a Uk customer, their price up front and not shocking me when I get to the checkout with a 20% VAT addition.
I don't know any other game retailer who does that.
Given that I think the prices are high anyway (I'm not looking to argue about that though), the +20% tips the balance against the sale.




Terminus -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 7:11:20 PM)

Why would you assume that your order would be VAT free? It's not Matrix/Plimus' fault that you don't know your own country's VAT rate.




7th Somersets -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 7:40:00 PM)

quote:

Why would you assume that your order would be VAT free? It's not Matrix/Plimus' fault that you don't know your own country's VAT rate.



Probaby because, so far as I am aware, it is a legal requirement to show prices inclusive of tax in the UK.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/BeginnersGuideToTax/VAT/DG_190918




Terminus -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 7:50:46 PM)

So? This store sells to other people besides UK residents, and the laws might not be the same...




7th Somersets -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 9:02:08 PM)

quote:

So? This store sells to other people besides UK residents, and the laws might not be the same...


From the Revenue and Customs site: "Products advertised in outlets, magazines, on the internet, or shown in catalogues, price lists and other literature may be aimed at the consumer, businesses, or both. If they're only meant for the general public, they'll show you a price including VAT. This is a legal requirement."

I think that you will find that, just as vat is chargable for products sold in the EU/UK even though the seller is not EU based and sells to other countries too, that you need to comply with the laws of the countries that sales are made in. VAT is chargable on products sold to customers in the UK because they are deemed to have been sold in the UK. For the same reason the prices should include VAT for products sold in the UK (and EU for that matter).

For those of us making purchases in the UK there is a separate shop anyway. It should be relatively easy to add the VAT to the price of the game as shown - and then break it down in the bill as would normally occur for sales with vat receipts in the UK.

For the same reasons, if I ran an internet company in the UK but say selling in the USA, I would need to comply with US sales laws and taxes. Just as I am always surprised by sales tax being added to prices for things I buy when I visit the US, people in the UK will be surprised if taxes are not included.







parusski -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 9:07:22 PM)

Your fault for living in the stupid VAT European Union. Or at least for letting your politicians shackle you with such an insidious tax.




BASB -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 9:12:00 PM)

A narrow minded approach, at the end of the day we all pay tax whether it is VAT GST income or sales tax, all honest earner and non earners pay tax one way or another. This board is getting so unfriendly. say something nice or just refrain from commenting if u can't.




Josh -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 9:58:40 PM)

How did this thread become political within five posts? LOL

Well anyways, the poster has a valid point. We as regular customers are used to the fact that the total sum is higher than the price mentioned early on, because of taxes and shipping and so on. It also means it can scare away  potential customers. Like he says; "...the +20% tips the balance against the sale...". And as the customer is always right, he may have a point.
Haven't got a clue as to what Matrix can do about it though... maybe state more explicitly early on that foreign customers pay more?




Erik Rutins -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 11:06:55 PM)

Hi Everyone,

First of all, I don't understand why people jumped on the original poster. Please dial it back a few notches. This question has come up before and it's a fact that folks in Europe are used to seeing VAT included in their prices. However, as we have one store and we cannot be 100% sure which country each customer is coming from, and the VAT rate is different by country and different for digital and physical products, we have to calculate it on the last step once we know where you are for certain. This is how it works with sales tax in the US as well.

We may have a solution for this in the future, but the prices exclude VAT right now.

Regards,

- Erik




V22 Osprey -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 11:07:56 PM)

This board has been getting a little nasty lately. everyone seems on edge. Something must be going on.




06 Maestro -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 11:35:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

This board has been getting a little nasty lately. everyone seems on edge. Something must be going on.


A possible answer; Confucius had a saying that ([;)]-really) that "People are to their government as grass is to the wind".




parusski -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 11:39:57 PM)

OOPS. I did not intend to put "stupid" in my post. I was trying to be sarcastic, not hateful. Sorry.




7th Somersets -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 11:56:39 PM)

And at the end of the day (however it is calculated) - you get to see the price. No-one makes you buy the game if you don't like it.




SuluSea -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/15/2011 11:59:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

Your fault for living in the stupid VAT European Union. Or at least for letting your politicians shackle you with such an insidious tax.



LOL if you don't think this tax will be levied on the good citizens of the United States at some point in the not so distant future pass me what you're smoking. Our politicians never met a tax they didn't like.





Obsolete -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 12:21:01 AM)

quote:

Your fault for living in the stupid VAT European Union. Or at least for letting your politicians shackle you with such an insidious tax.


Ok, what countries are there that don't have some form of VAT? You may find all kinds of fancy names like Harmonized Sales Tax and so on... But the majority of countries have some sort of VAT, even if it's not called the VAT.





ilovestrategy -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 12:25:38 AM)

What is VAT? From what I've read is it some sort of sales tax?




wodin -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 1:12:59 AM)

VAT was brought in to fund the Napoleonic Wars...thought it would be paid off by now...




Jeffrey H. -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 3:41:23 AM)

Maybe as our government collapses, they'll tax us for each breath we take. Oh yeah, that's called "cap and trade". silly me.




Obsolete -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 4:01:57 AM)

quote:

VAT was brought in to fund the Napoleonic Wars...thought it would be paid off by now...


Well what a coincidence, it's just like how North America decided to introduce the Income Tax to fund the war effort in WW-I. Yet after the allies won the war, they suddenly decided to continue the tax-rape upon the people instead of removing it as promised. 

I guess people back then were still falling for lies from politicians. What a surprise...





KG Erwin -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 4:03:35 AM)

Ellis, I am sorry you are dismayed about taxes imposed by your government, but this isn't something that Matrix can do anything about. You should take these surcharges into account before you consider purchasing one of Matrix' products.




Ellis -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 4:36:24 PM)

As the original poster I appreciate Erik's comments. I understand the problem of having one store. I did think there was a separate UK store or site - I think there used to be.

SOME other responders don't appear to have properly read my original post.

I do not assume my order will be VAT free - I expect the price I see when I read about the game to be the price I have to pay ie to include the tax.

I do know the VAT tax rate.

I do know that I eventually see the price and don't have to buy the game.

I'm not dismayed about taxes imposed by my government - at least not in this context.

My point - I repeat - was about the presentation of the price to me.
I read about the game and see a price. I think mmmm maybe... Oh all right then... I go to the checkout to pay and wow! a different 20% higher price.
No way is that good news...
It doesn't happen with other companies I buy games from.

I'm glad to hear there may be a solution in time.




apathetic lurker -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 4:53:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ellis

As the original poster I appreciate Erik's comments. I understand the problem of having one store. I did think there was a separate UK store or site - I think there used to be.

SOME other responders don't appear to have properly read my original post.

I do not assume my order will be VAT free - I expect the price I see when I read about the game to be the price I have to pay ie to include the tax.

I do know the VAT tax rate.

I do know that I eventually see the price and don't have to buy the game.

I'm not dismayed about taxes imposed by my government - at least not in this context.

My point - I repeat - was about the presentation of the price to me.
I read about the game and see a price. I think mmmm maybe... Oh all right then... I go to the checkout to pay and wow! a different 20% higher price.
No way is that good news...
It doesn't happen with other companies I buy games from.

I'm glad to hear there may be a solution in time.


The other countries might have a local presence(or are a huge conglomerate with oodles of bean counters to take care of things like this) making it easier to implement the VAT thing earlier on in the process. Your best bet if you are adverse to paying that extra tax is to wait for one of matrix's sales and buy it then.....I do that quite a bit and I don't have to worry about the VAT.....




Wolfe -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 6:34:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

VAT was brought in to fund the Napoleonic Wars...thought it would be paid off by now...


That was Income Tax - and yes were still paying that as well




warspite1 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 6:35:35 PM)

quote:

What is VAT? From what I've read is it some sort of sales tax?



quote:

VAT was brought in to fund the Napoleonic Wars...thought it would be paid off by now...


I think you were thinking of Income Tax Wodin. Value Added Tax (VAT) was first charged in 1973. Its just another way for the government to take our hard earned, but is supposed to progressive (I think was the economics phrase?) - because it is not charged on certain basic items like childrens clothes - but is used for supposed luxury things - so does not dis-advantage the not so well off. Or something like that.....




Grey Hunter -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 9:27:45 PM)

Maybe you could add something to the main page stating that there is not VAT on, that should cover you. 




ilovestrategy -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 9:56:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

What is VAT? From what I've read is it some sort of sales tax?



quote:

VAT was brought in to fund the Napoleonic Wars...thought it would be paid off by now...


I think you were thinking of Income Tax Wodin. Value Added Tax (VAT) was first charged in 1973. Its just another way for the government to take our hard earned, but is supposed to progressive (I think was the economics phrase?) - because it is not charged on certain basic items like childrens clothes - but is used for supposed luxury things - so does not dis-advantage the not so well off. Or something like that.....


That reminds me of when I was a kid working at a grocery store in Louisiana when the state government decided to tax junk food like Twinkies and candy bars. The cashiers used to tell me it broke their hearts to tell the little kids they didn't have enough money because of the new tax. That tax lasted maybe a year before it was repealed. I remember the head lines on the paper. "They are now TAXING our Twinkies! [:D]




Mobeer -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/16/2011 10:15:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grey Hunter
Maybe you could add something to the main page stating that there is not VAT on, that should cover you. 


This would be good.

It also seems odd to me that the FAQ mentions VAT, but makes no mention of VAT being excluded from the prices displayed.




bairdlander -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 1:42:11 AM)

Are the prices in US currency?




7th Somersets -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 9:40:09 AM)

quote:

Maybe you could add something to the main page stating that there is not VAT on, that should cover you. 


Everyone seems to be ignoring the HMRC view that it is a legal requirement to show prices inclusive of vat to consumers.

I don't (directly) deal with tax law, but from my other legal dealings with HMRC I have a pretty good idea what their stance will be on this issue. I would not assume that it is an optional requirement.





warspite1 -> RE: Price presentation moan (2/17/2011 9:52:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 7th Somersets

quote:

Maybe you could add something to the main page stating that there is not VAT on, that should cover you. 


Everyone seems to be ignoring the HMRC view that it is a legal requirement to show prices inclusive of vat to consumers.

I don't (directly) deal with tax law, but from my other legal dealings with HMRC I have a pretty good idea what their stance will be on this issue. I would not assume that it is an optional requirement.


Warspite1

So you think the Matrix store website is breaking UK law?




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