Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (Full Version)

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JRyan -> Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (2/13/2011 2:50:20 AM)

This is a tough scenario, I will post my play by play and stats....If you haven't played this one, I recommend you do..

Go to HarpGamer to grab broncepulido
Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel?

Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel?

Read orders.....Must Destroy Targets
-Bushehr comprising his nuclear reactor (ZPa)
-the Nuke Sites 1 (YSb), 2 (YRb) and 3 (YQb),
-the Terror Camps 1 (YDa), 2 (YCa) and 3 (YBa),
-and the TBM Site (YFb) *** Near Terehan ***
(first you must to localize some of those targets).

Study layout, Locate targets...

Very Large Scenario - .....

(YfB) Shall be the first target to protect from any ballistic Missile Launches...... (900 miles one way - Tankers


*** Relocate aircraft to different bases, for ease of tracking.

*** Ballistic Missle attack! (4) inbound ARROW SAMS got em...!

** Surface target - Ship... 2 Missiles take it out. Pirate vessel
** SSM sites, launch F16's, 30 of them, Katyusha Rockets also seen.
** More Ships,2 locations, Launch Gabriel F16's.... (6) Merchants sunk, one fired SAM?...(1) More
Merchant...Sunk..Another Spotted North of Cyprus. **10 Merchants sunk so far, 3 have fired SAMS?.
**9 Katyusha Sites destroyed, 6 SA7 sites.

AC Ratio 25/2 ( 2 F16's were shot down upon returning to Israel Greater. Unknown who shot them down. Could be Friendly

** launching Apaches to go after the rest of the SAMS and Katyushas.

** Some Mirage F1's (6) Shot down, must have been Iraq’s at one time.

** Lost Track, CAP of 4 F15's ambushed, 3 lost to Alamo's...

** Apaches made quick work of the Katyushas and SA7's...No more to be seen.


3 Strike sets sent against (Yrb). HARMS and Have Naps did some damage.
Lost some F-15's and F-16's, but have weeded out many Iranian front line aircraft.
Took out targets of opportunity on way back.

Note: Harms are easily shot down it seems, must saturate your targets.

Note: Israel will have trouble with AA10 armed MiG29's and Phoenix armed
F-14's. These cost me most of my losses. I went ahead and attacked to get their numbers down.
The F14's are easy to spot, but the MiG29's seem to be hard to track and find with F15's.
This does not seem right to me, I am flying low, ENCOM off and yet he sees me and when I pop up I can not see them,
sometimes too late. Calculated losses here. Hopefully no more to deal with.

Note: Not a single loss of any tankers, the decision to make all A4's Tankers was a GOOD one.

Two airbases totally destroyed, (Yrb - 51% Damage), 14 SAMS destroyed, 27 Katyushas, 16 Iranian allied ships sunk.

AC Ratio 239/30 - Not bad but the MiG29s and F-14s have longer missile range than any Israeli AC. Most of these are F5's
and Chinese MiG21's and a few SU22's. Note: The Iranians need Tankers also to get to Israel. This is good as I have shot
most down I think.

Launch F16I Strike, combine tankers, refueled.
Oh no, looks like 6 F-14s heading my way. break off Intercept F-16I's, 2 sets of 2 and close. F-14's launched... Continue

press on and protect your SEAD AC. Phoenix's closing, go Vlow and take your chances, all miss. Go to Low and fire 2X
missiles at each F14. wait. 6 F14's shot down, 1 F16I lost... I can deal with those numbers! Got 4 MiG29's

Press on with attack. SAMS are degraded with many HARMS, half the Delilah missiles hit, not much damage but the next time

I can use iron bombs etc. Successful attack only one AC lost... AC Ratio 31/259. I caught some Su24's without escorts!

Strike Launched, F15's w/Tankers....Well must keep the 15's in contact with the haveNaps...all missiles lost! Crap. My

New strikes launched combination, first encounter 4 MiG29's against 5 F-15I's...* AMRAAM's...Lost 1 F15 all AMRAAMs
missed..What? CHARGE! 6 AMRAAMs launched, 3 MiG29s shot down, lost another F15. What is the deal with these MiG29s? Do
they have jamming support?

Ballistic Missile attack! The Arrows are not that effective, AMRAAMs were but yet damage still occurred.

24 hours since the start of hostilities.

Air Superiority is 90%, now I believe I can use my Tankers to get more A/C deep and get the Ballistic Missile sites!
Roughly one day has passed, the strikes have not been as effective as I had wished. The Delilah missiles have the range
but apparently almost NO damage. Must get IRON bombs on target and soon.

Another Ballistic Missile, this time a slow one, Patriot kill! Another Jihad Missiles, will have to read on these. Where
are they coming from?

F15 strike group jumped by 4 F14's, didn’t see them as radar was off. 3 F15's paid the price. 4 F14s gone though. EMCOM

I want them to see me! And so some F4's are out there, need to localize them. Got em and more F14's just popped up, Got
2, no losses...good..

The F15C/D does not have the range with a 1/1 tanker ratio, must try 2/1 Tanker to get within distance of a target. This
is the 2nd attack with no results. Bad. Still the F16I's and F15I's are ok and trucking on. Launched Mavericks, like try
to bomb a target with hand grenades, Nuke site on 62% damage. Lost 1 to SAM. Delilah missiles suck.

Iron Bombs launched, 2/1 tanker ratio with F15C/D and F16C/D's...lets see.. Well 4 F15's were ambushed again by 4 F14s, a

4-4 trade...damn.

These F16I's are GOOD planes, nice range etc. Just shot down 3 F14's and making a break for home. Have learned how to
deal with these F14's and Phoenix's. Launched new strikes, will not let up. Last F14 got me, 2 F16I's shot down from
behind, no fuel to run in AB. AC ratio 299/43...getting better.

Damn Game Crash..................

Ok started back from where I left off.. Lost 2 F16I to SA-10's shot down 2 F14s again. I will kill this base and get rid
of the F14s I hope. Again these Delilah missiles just fly right on by...they suck.

AC Ratio 306/47....

New attacks launched. One MiG29 shot down. No more F14's???

More Strikes....F16I's w/Tankers.......TBM Destroyed. Ah now I have found the weapons for load out. Must get more tankers

for the F16I's..F15I's just JDAM'd Nuke Site 2, Destroyed! Terror Camp # 2 Destroyed! Smaller packages with more tankers
seems to be working. No fighters for a while except the Chinese MiG21's.......Another Terror camp destroyed! Looks like
no fighter aircraft left except Mirage F-1's.....Last 2 targets are Deep inside Iran though. 4/1 Tanker Ratio I bet. Ah
Met Minimum VICTORY CONDITIONS!!! Play on, I need to get the Nuclear Reactor. AC ratio 48/322

Now they are getting desperate, MiG19's. This could be an issue as I am out of Medium Range Missiles now...Ok here it
comes...Got em, MiG19's....2 of them. Oh no, this is getting serious, I just lost 8 F15I's to nothing? I assume SAMS but
I never saw them coming. Now I am getting near to the limit of the amount of AC I can loose..I must be very careful from
here on out.

One more F15I strike on the last terror camp and concentrate on the Nuclear reactor.

AC Ratio 337/56...

Just lost an F15C to a SAM.....not good.

Terror Camp # 3 wiped out. Take Care of Egress.....Plan route clean....Another attack needed on reactor!
A Set of Mirage F1's tried to save the Terror Camp, all they got was shot down,

AC Ratio 344/57...

Last Nuke Site Destroyed, I will now take out some SCUD sites, the political situation is getting uneasy, I must defang
Iran before the US and the United Nations forces a Cease Fire. Complete Air Superiority is mine for the time being.

AC Ratio 348/57...

Last SCUD site is Destroyed. Now the Decision must be made to pursue more attacks. I will make that call with 2 days left

in the scenario. I will start wiping out airbases. Wait forgot one Nuke Site...Now all three are destroyed. Will vector
other AC to get the Intel Center. Got it, All I am seeing now is F4E's, and Mirage F1's...

AC Ratio 368/57...

One F15I shot down making a fast run in, ranged weapons are not in this aircrafts strong suite I guess. I can only loose
2 more and I lose. The politicians are going nuts, the Americans are delaying vote at the UN Security Council, so I have
maybe a day left or so to make this lesson a very important one to Iran.

AC Ratio 370/58...

Going through the Persian Gulf, wiping out Oil Terminals etc, this will be a very costly mistake for Iran to not listen
to the UN. Even though Israel will get condemned, Iran will be set back 10 years. Their oil monies will be limited. I am
also aiming for the Refinery, there is only 17 hours until a declared cease fire according to the Americans, I must

AC Ratio 381/58...

Bases, terminals, whatever targets I can get....

AC Ratio 391/58...

2 hours left, 3 strike packages in the air, inbound, will they be able to strike before being called back?

More Targets leveled but the last F15I's were in the air, heading south to the Oil terminals when the call came. The UN
has brokered a cease fire, this will include the Hezbollah in Lebanon. In just under 4 days, Iran’s Nuclear program has
been set back 10+ years, their air force decimated, their oil industry severely damaged.

Hostilities have ended.....for now.

-Final AC Ratio 391/58...
-Ships 22 Hostile Ships sunk with no losses on Israel’s side
-Red Bases Destroyed 40, w/ 4 damaged, Israel had one base damaged.
-AD Mobile 49 Destroyed w 17 damaged
-Armored 28 destroyed, w 3 damaged.

The Iranian people having seen the Mullahs cost them dearly, have begun riots in the streets and the Army wants no part
in quelling these riots.

Soon maybe peace...

Meanwhile the Israeli Air force has lost some good aircraft, and having done what the United States and the rest of teh
Western World had not the guts to do, will be first to receive the JSF.

Congress recently voted to reopen the F22 production line after the lessons the Israelis learned. Israel is lobbying
heavily to purchase the F22.

- Some surprised learned, the F14's are dangerous VERY dangerous.
- the Israelis would have a very tough time attacking Iran’s Nuclear facilities. Their AC are all but range limited and
if not for the A4 Tankers, I would not have been so successful.
- The F15I and F16I are very good aircraft.

I liked this scenario and it made me think on just how hard an attack on Iran would be. I did not get air superiority
until after 24 hours and that is hard to deal with.


JRyan -> RE: Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (2/13/2011 3:00:13 AM)

I have attached the log from the Scen if one wants to see it....

I thoroughly enjoyed this and it did open my eyes!

JRyan -> RE: Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (2/13/2011 12:56:18 PM)

Yes they still have them, around 40 active or so. I had thought they got the phoenix missiles but they must be out. They have their own version using a modified I Hawk missile. Mainly used as AWACs AC, they are still potent fighters, even in Iranian hands.

JRyan -> RE: Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (2/13/2011 9:25:08 PM)

Combat Aircraft April/May 2008 states:as of May 2007 some 44 F-14s are operational in 4 squadrons.

The missile I refer to from the same source is such,

AIM-23C Sejil Medium Range AAM, an indigenous Iranian development of the MIM-23B I-Hawk SAM.

I still have that issue on the back of the 'can' so I read it quite a bit :)

CV32 -> RE: Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (2/21/2011 7:44:36 PM)


ORIGINAL: koelbach
Hi, does anybody know if a) Iran still has usable F-14΄s and b) if so - do they carry AIM-54 Phoenix missiles? IMO they used to have only Sparrow missiles, never got Phoenixes. Regards, Ralf

Seeing this post a few days late ...

Yes, the Iranians did receive a quantity of AIM-54A Phoenix missiles with their 79 F-14A Tomcats. More particularly, they apparently received 800 AIM-7E4 Sparrow, 800 AIM-9P Sidewinder and 270 AIM-54A. As you know, further F-14A deliveries were cancelled with the 1979 Revolution, and this would have included another 444 AIM-54A missiles. They reportedly used some of their AIM-54A inventory during the war with Iraq, with mixed success. They produced at least another 30 reverse engineered examples of the weapon from 2005.

The AIM-23C Sedjil was a MIM-23B I-HAWK surface to air missile converted for the air-to-air role in 1986. Only four F-14As were adapted to test it, and apparently the program was cancelled after persistent radar integration problems. It remains in the HCDB as a 'hypothetical' weapon.

JRyan -> RE: Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (2/21/2011 10:55:43 PM)



The AIM-23C Sedjil was a MIM-23B I-HAWK surface to air missile converted for the air-to-air role in 1986. Only four F-14As were adapted to test it, and apparently the program was cancelled after persistent radar integration problems. It remains in the HCDB as a 'hypothetical' weapon.

Hmm, the magazine (Combat Aircraft April/May 2008) I got this info from was from 2007/8 and it said they were active. I had doubts about its performance anyway..

Bucks -> RE: Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (2/22/2011 12:42:09 AM)

Harpoon 4.1 April 2009 Annex data:

F-14A-GR Tomcat

Ordnance Loadouts:
• 4 AIM-54A, 4 AIM-9P1 or 2 AIM-7E4 and 2 AIM-9P1
• 2 AIM-54A, 3 AIM-7E4 and 2 AIM-9P1 or 1 AIM-7E4 and 4 AIM-9P1
• 2 AIM-54A, 2 AIM-7E4, 4 AIM-9P1 (standard lead fighter 1980s)
• 6 AIM-7E4, 2 AIM-9P1 (standard wingman 1980s)

• 2 AIM-54A, 4 AIM-9P1 (common 1980s)
• 2 AIM-54A, 2 AIM-7E4, 2 AIM-9P1 (common 1980s)
• 2 Sedjil, 4 AIM-7E4, 2 AIM-9P1 (1986 only)

Remarks: In Service: 1977
Cannot land w/6 Phoenix, normally carries 4 on CAP. Can engage six different targets at once with AIM-54 Phoenix. Launch limited to two missiles per phase. Countermeasures downgraded against US missiles – treat as 1st Gen J&D; AIM-54A has downgraded ECCM. AWG-9 has poor overland performance, ranges against look-down contacts (below F-14A altitude band) over land. Not initially fitted with 280 USG drop tanks.

• Jan 76-Dec 78: 79 F-14A delivered along with 270 AIM-54A (714 had been ordered). Initially 81st, 82nd TFS (Esfahan) and 71st, 72nd (Shiraz).

• Apr 79 on: Maintenance problems due to revolution and embargoes.
Typically carry less than 4 AIM-54 due to lack of serviceable missiles. Follow-on buy of 75 with boom refueling cancelled. 77 remain with 80 trained ground crew (4 ground teams)

• Dec 80: 72nd re-equipped with F-4D.

• 1980s: Only 50% of operational a/c has operational AWG-9 radar. Only 6 fully trained ground crews available. 16 lost to all causes.

• 1982: Some spares manufactured locally.

• 1984-86: AIM-54 shortages due to lack of parts – Typically lead fighter carries 1 AIM-54.

• 1986: 50 AIM-7E improved by Israel (use AIM-7F ATA). Trials with 4 Mk 83 vice Phoenix – probably never used operationally.

• Apr 86: Converted I-HAWK MIM-23B SAM test fired as Sedjil AAM from 4 F-14. Can only be launched at subsonic speeds from Medium altitude against targets in Medium-High altitude bands. Cancelled due to radar integration problems. Included as ‘what-if’.

• Oct 86 – mid-87: Many parts delivered from US. Assume all have working AWG-9. Poor maintenance again after this date.

• mid-late 80s: Fitted with drop tanks (as US 280 USG)

• 1990s: Fitted with R-73 AAM.

• 1999: 64 AIM-54 remain operational from 160 remaining.

• 2000: Dumb and smart bomb capability added.

• 2003: Fatter AAM available vice AIM-9.

• 2005: 30 AIM-54 reverse engineered round delivered. These are sealed rounds (do not require coolant) from aircraft.

• 2007 on: Upgraded. Includes 82nd TFS with detachment at Busehr.

• Operational Aircraft by year -
1980: 12
1981: 40-45
1984: 15-20
1985: 25
Early 86: 20, late 86: 35
Late 87: 35 (15 w/AWG-9, 50 AIM-54 operational)
1999: 29 active (28 storage)
2000-06: 25.



JRyan -> RE: Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (2/22/2011 4:47:24 AM)

Thanks! Wow...

CV32 -> RE: Iran-Israel 2010, Survival of Israel? (2/22/2011 1:03:00 PM)

My March 2010 annex data doesn't have much to add to what Darren already posted and what I said earlier.

Regarding the numbers of Tomcats left in IRIAF service, you will find most sources say between 20 and 25 airframes still flying. 14 participated in a flypast as part of the National Army Day parade in April 2008.

Supposedly about 70 percent of F-14 spares are manufactured inside Iran, with the remainder obtained abroad. You might recall folks in the USA being arrested for trying to sell F-14 parts on sites like Ebay and Craigslist back in late 2007.

Regarding the AIM-23C Sedjil, Iran claimed to have successfully used the missile during their wargame 'Blow of Zolfiqar' back in February 2008.

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