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ezz -> HPS new games (3/5/2010 12:19:19 AM)

What are the HPS games like. Sealion and Midway about to be released and both tempt.
I played a squad battles for a very limited time but the interface graphics put me off quickly.

Any idea what HPS naval and 'front' size games are like?




SuluSea -> RE: HPS new games (3/5/2010 12:54:53 AM)

I've been thinking about Midway all afternoon, I have Guadalcanal and like it although it's more beer and pretzels than what I usually prefer. I wonder how much different Midway will be than Carriers at War after reading the site. I'd like to see clouds in game like CAW has, don't know if that is included. I may wait a few months and see if anything will ever come of Carrier Force and read some reviews before I make my purchase.




invernomuto -> RE: HPS new games (3/5/2010 9:37:37 AM)

Midway seems to be a good game. 
I hope that it'is more complex than CAW.
BTW, does HPS offer digital download now?
It's really expensive for a non-US customer to buy their games.





Halsey -> RE: HPS new games (3/5/2010 11:00:34 AM)

No DL at HPS.

They are a very, very small company.
So no extra frills.[:D]




cmurphy625 -> RE: HPS new games (3/5/2010 12:04:34 PM)

I thought there was supposed to be an update so you wouldn't have to use your disks anymore... I have Antietan and Stalingrad, love em both, but a pain to have to find/take care of disks!!.... I've become so fond of the Digital Download Age!!




nelmsm1 -> RE: HPS new games (3/5/2010 12:19:02 PM)

The fixes to remove the need for the CD is coming as they patch the games, just taking time to get them all patched.  There is an alternative where you can create one CD to start all your HPS games.




Joe D. -> RE: HPS new games (3/5/2010 6:24:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea
I've been thinking about Midway all afternoon, I have Guadalcanal and like it although it's more beer and pretzels than what I usually prefer ...


I was very disapointed w/HPS 'Canal; there was hardly anything to it.

I still have GB and Anti CW games, but only bother to play the former.

I am curious re HPS Midway as the only scenario I ever played on CaW was Midway.




BAL -> RE: HPS new games (3/5/2010 6:54:40 PM)

Here's a link to some "Getting Started" notes for Midway - probably explain way beter than I could.  As I understand it, the previous naval titles (some/all? - not sure) are to be brought up to Midway standards.  Unofficially I've read that Guadalcanal will be upgraded first.

http://www.hist-sdc.com/index.html

I've also heard some rumblings that HPS will eventually offer digital download, but in the meantime the best & cheapest place to get HPS games is at NWS.




SuluSea -> RE: HPS new games (3/5/2010 9:52:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.


I was very disapointed w/HPS 'Canal; there was hardly anything to it.


No disagreement with you Joe, I was hoping for more and can understand some people may be disapointed in the title. I was up to speed on all the features within the hour after install but I'd be lying if I said I didn't like or enjoy the game.




D.Ilse -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 3:07:35 AM)

I'd like to see a Kholm '42 game from HPS.

Still working on HPS's Bulge '44..which the only complaint I have with is, no place names on the map.




Joe D. -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 12:36:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: D.Ilse

... Still working on HPS's Bulge '44..which the only complaint I have with is, no place names on the map.


I'm amazed at that omission, considering that HPS Getty even has homes ID'd by their owners on the map!

HPS games are usu. well-thought out, which often makes-up for their lack of graphics.




elmo3 -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 1:44:52 PM)

For whoever asked above, yes there are clouds in the Midway scenarios (and there are a lot more battles than just Midway).

AFAIK all Pz Campaigns games have place names.  There is a hotkey to show them (either Shift key).




BAL -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 2:17:35 PM)

quote:

which the only complaint I have with is, no place names on the map.


Shift key will bring up place names. Shift-Alt will keep them on the screen.




V22 Osprey -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 5:07:22 PM)

Musket & Pike: The Renaissance is easily one of the best HPS games ever made, especially with the new Patch that added 3D Graphics!

This new Midway title looks pretty good, even has Pearl Harbor. The Panzer Campaigns: Sea lion '40 looks pretty awesome, but I'm a little hesitant because it's non historical. I don't understand why they went with this approach when there is so many other historical battles that could be covered. Never the less, I may get it anyway.




Ashtur -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 6:46:50 PM)

Hey all!

Anyway, I can answer a few questions in regards to Midway (Sealion, I've not seen yet... so heh)

What's included in the game:
Pearl Harbor
Coral Sea
Midway
Eastern Solomons
Santa Cruz
Truk
Phillippine Sea

Those are the historical scenarios. There are also a number of hypotheticals. Most of those are based on the battles already listed. For instance, one of them is Santa Cruz, but where the Hiyo was able to participate. (As it'd had a major engineering fire days before the battle, and returned to Truk)

As someone mentioned, clouds are very much in the game, and they do have effects.


Oh, FWIW, there will be a major patch for Guadalcanal coming out in the very near future... For those who were upset with Guad not having "enough to it", you'll be pleased.




E -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 7:34:53 PM)

This appears to use the War Over Vietnam engine...I certainly hope they put in an in-game mission creator/launcher (could the scenario editor possibly be more un-user friendly?).  The lack of which killed War Over Vietnam for me, as the plan is the vast majority of an air battle game of this type. I understand War in the Mideast still lacked one...?




Ashtur -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 7:46:59 PM)

I've not played WoV, but Midway is not a WoV clone, it's a game unto itself.

To give you an idea of how a scenario might play, it goes like this.

One of the scenarios is a hypothetical "Battle of Wake Island", and it's good for this purpose. Say you're playing the US forces. That means you've got the USS Saratoga, and some escort ships.

Your first task is to ready a search. Once you have your search aircraft brought up from the hanger deck, you can then assign a search mission. So, for instance, you assign 14 SBDs from the VS group to a search arc of 190-310. Because the US VS groups are set up in pairs (as they did historically), you'll get 7 searches flying search patterns within that arc (generally to your west in that case).

Be sure to have your TF headed into the wind, and launch them.

Then, you'll likely want to get your first CAP of the day up. You'll assign them a Patrol mission, with their Patrol target being your carrier. This will lead them to hover over your TF, looking for enemy snoopers.

Once that's launched, you can begin to bring your strike aircraft up from the hanger and get them spotted, ready for when your search group finds something.

Once you spot the enemy, you can launch your strike, with the # and type of aircraft you want, and send them on their way. You can manually control aircraft, but generally, at least until they go in for the attack, it's best to let the AI fly them to their target.

In the meantime, you'll likely have enemy snoopers lurking. You'll likely want to vector some F4F's from your CAP to shoot them down. The enemy will likely already have his strike headed your way, but that way he'll at least be working on outdated location information. At this point, I'd probably be bringing up supplemental F4F's to relieve/reinforce the CAP as circumstances require.

Once your aircraft go in to attack, you can either let the AI direct the attack, or manually direct certain aircraft groups to go after certain targets. Then your aircraft return, and assuming your carriers are still afloat, you can rearm, respot and relaunch as necessary.


~garymc
Scenario Designer HPS Midway




E -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 8:05:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

I've not played WoV, but Midway is not a WoV clone, it's a game unto itself.



Not that Tiller would ever re-use an engine for a batch of games. *grin/wink* Now if Tiller would take some lessons from what this sounds like and retro-fit Wings Over Vietnam so missions could be easily created in-game. *sigh*




Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 8:48:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

Your first task is to ready a search. Once you have your search aircraft brought up from the hanger deck, you can then assign a search mission. So, for instance, you assign 14 SBDs from the VS group to a search arc of 190-310. Because the US VS groups are set up in pairs (as they did historically), you'll get 7 searches flying search patterns within that arc (generally to your west in that case).

Be sure to have your TF headed into the wind, and launch them.

Then, you'll likely want to get your first CAP of the day up. You'll assign them a Patrol mission, with their Patrol target being your carrier. This will lead them to hover over your TF, looking for enemy snoopers.

Once that's launched, you can begin to bring your strike aircraft up from the hanger and get them spotted, ready for when your search group finds something.

Once you spot the enemy, you can launch your strike, with the # and type of aircraft you want, and send them on their way. You can manually control aircraft, but generally, at least until they go in for the attack, it's best to let the AI fly them to their target.

In the meantime, you'll likely have enemy snoopers lurking. You'll likely want to vector some F4F's from your CAP to shoot them down. The enemy will likely already have his strike headed your way, but that way he'll at least be working on outdated location information. At this point, I'd probably be bringing up supplemental F4F's to relieve/reinforce the CAP as circumstances require.

Once your aircraft go in to attack, you can either let the AI direct the attack, or manually direct certain aircraft groups to go after certain targets. Then your aircraft return, and assuming your carriers are still afloat, you can rearm, respot and relaunch as necessary.


I always compare games of this variety to their boardgame counterparts, very few of which go into the level of detail described above. Notable exceptions to the boardgaming paradigm would include Carrier Battles (Rising Sun Simulations) and Fast Carriers (SPI), both of which allowed some modicum of player control over the tactical part of the battle. In the overwhelming majority of instances, however, the tactical portion of boardgames is COMPLETELY abstracted, a good example being Flat Top from Battleline (and of course AH). By extension, the design of computer simulations of carrier combat can be viewed through the exact same prism, with games consistently eschewing the tactical for the operational. As different as War in the Pacific and Carriers at War may be, they are 100% faithful to their boardgaming antecedents in this regard. These comments made, this HPS Midway game has piqued my interest, somewhat, as garymc's comments appear to indicate that it deviates from some long-established norms.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)




Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 8:56:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

Oh, FWIW, there will be a major patch for Guadalcanal coming out in the very near future... For those who were upset with Guad not having "enough to it", you'll be pleased.


FWIW, the future arrived sooner than expected. Guadalcanal is updated here:

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/updates/up_NavCamps/up_NAVCAM.html




Joe D. -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 9:49:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

Hey all!

Anyway, I can answer a few questions in regards to Midway (Sealion, I've not seen yet... so heh)

What's included in the game:
Pearl Harbor
Coral Sea
Midway
Eastern Solomons
Santa Cruz
Truk
Phillippine Sea

Those are the historical scenarios ...


This list is almost identical to that of CaW.

quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

I've not played WoV, but Midway is not a WoV clone, it's a game unto itself.

To give you an idea of how a scenario might play, it goes like this.

One of the scenarios is a hypothetical "Battle of Wake Island", and it's good for this purpose. Say you're playing the US forces. That means you've got the USS Saratoga, and some escort ships.

Your first task is to ready a search. Once you have your search aircraft brought up from the hanger deck, you can then assign a search mission. So, for instance, you assign 14 SBDs from the VS group to a search arc of 190-310. Because the US VS groups are set up in pairs (as they did historically), you'll get 7 searches flying search patterns within that arc (generally to your west in that case).

Be sure to have your TF headed into the wind, and launch them ...


This is much more detailed than CaW, which was so seamless and uncomplicated in its execution that it may have lost some of the tension of its predecessor.

BTW, I had HPS WoME and its disapointng 'Canal sim.




ezz -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 10:06:01 PM)

Very interesting.
As someone who loved Carrier Strike and was bored by CAW I hope Midway is more of the former.

The sealion does interest simply because its not another Bulge or Kursk.
Their Finest Hour Europa boardgame has to give A LOT of help to the Germans to let them have any chance at all of a successful attack . IIRC optional rules to have all the destroyers from Norway back. The German ships from '41 bought forward. + far less Ju52-Me 109 and para casualties in france than was the historical case.
But as a game it was quite knife edge once the Huns were ashore and if they got hold of a port.
A genuinely interesting, if extremely unlikely battle.





Scott_WAR -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 10:21:43 PM)

Does Midway have a campaign or is it just several scenarios?




flipperwasirish -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 10:32:00 PM)

I think just scenarios.

I just ordered it (its been too long since I had a new game) and will give you a definative answer when I get it.

The weather today in Connecticut is very nice, sunshine, 50's makes for a nice Winter.[:)][:)][:)]




Ashtur -> RE: HPS new games (3/6/2010 11:11:10 PM)

That's correct, no campaign mode, just the individual scenarios.




Prince of Eckmühl -> RE: HPS new games (3/7/2010 6:20:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

That's correct, no campaign mode, just the individual scenarios.


Hi garymc,

There's an interesting document in the PDF files for your Guadalcanal update that's labeled user (the User's Manual). In looking it over, it appears as though the engine has been designed in such a way as to integrate air, sea and subsurface operations. If that's the case, can we assume that you're aiming for progressively more comprehensive simulations of naval warfare in the future?




D.Ilse -> RE: HPS new games (3/7/2010 10:11:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BAL

quote:

which the only complaint I have with is, no place names on the map.


Shift key will bring up place names. Shift-Alt will keep them on the screen.


[X(] didn't know that, and i printed out the whole manual and put it in a three ringed binder, not that i read the whole thing...




Ashtur -> RE: HPS new games (3/7/2010 1:56:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

That's correct, no campaign mode, just the individual scenarios.


Hi garymc,

There's an interesting document in the PDF files for your Guadalcanal update that's labeled user (the User's Manual). In looking it over, it appears as though the engine has been designed in such a way as to integrate air, sea and subsurface operations. If that's the case, can we assume that you're aiming for progressively more comprehensive simulations of naval warfare in the future?



There's already some submarine capability in the game. For instance, one of the scenarios is actually the day the Wasp was sunk.

As to further enhancements down the line... HPS is very tightlipped about what is to come down the pike. That said, what you've done in regards to reading documentation is generally a good indication of what John Tiller's working on in regards to the series.




Joe D. -> RE: HPS new games (3/7/2010 5:49:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garymc

I've not played WoV, but Midway is not a WoV clone, it's a game unto itself ...


Is its IJN OOB from Shatterered Sword, but if not, where did you get it from?




Ashtur -> RE: HPS new games (3/7/2010 6:32:48 PM)

Generally on OOB's, there was a comparison based on various sources. As memory serves, the IJN one for Midway proper is based on Shattered Sword.




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