How do you get into WitP? (Full Version)

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richlove -> How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 9:56:29 PM)

Hi all, new forum member, potential player. I'm curious about WitP but I'm hesitating at the price - $70 is a lot to plunk down on a whim. Is there a demo? Some other way to tell whether I'd actually enjoy the game?




Terminus -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 9:58:15 PM)

Welcome to the forum. There's no demo, but if you consider what sort of games you like and post them, maybe we can take it from there.




richlove -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 10:04:08 PM)

Easy enough. Grand strategy is my sweet spot - I'm currently coming off a Hearts of Iron 2 binge; worked my way through EU2, MOO, Civ1-3, a few others. Played a good deal of tabletop games in my youth - Panzer Leader, DDay, Fleet Series.

The complexity and subject matter appeal...




AW1Steve -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 10:09:04 PM)

If you liked the "fleets" (I assume you mean Avalon hill's 6th,5th,7th,and 3rd fleets) you very much enjoy it. Also if you've done any of the Harpoon games, or Starfleet battles, you will love it. [:)]




OldGuard1970 -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 10:24:34 PM)

Read some of the AARs.  That will let you see a bit of the tension and give you a peek into the game.




richlove -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 10:26:32 PM)

Yep, 6th, 2nd, 7th, 5th fleet. Liked harpoon too. Just read Speedy's AAR too - interesting stuff. How good are the in-game tutorials, and how's the manual?




Terminus -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 10:32:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: richlove

Yep, 6th, 2nd, 7th, 5th fleet. Liked harpoon too. Just read Speedy's AAR too - interesting stuff. How good are the in-game tutorials, and how's the manual?


The current manual is basically trash. If you want my advice, wait for Admiral's Edition. The game's much better and the manual's MUCH better.




Hornblower -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 10:43:20 PM)

I think like many here i started in WiTP from UV.  I've always been a Naval buff and i saw UV at a store (nope i didn't buy it on line) and it seamed pretty intersting.  6 years later here i am...




Jim D Burns -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 10:46:41 PM)

If you like complexity and depth then you'll love WitP. There is a lot of micromanaging in game, so if you're more of a grand strategy gamer who prefers games that abstract a lot of the detail and minutiae, then WitP isn't for you.

If you think this is a game for you, I would recommend you get WitP now and start playing it as a training aid for the upcoming AE edition. AE requires you own WitP to play it, so you don't lose anything by starting in now. Unless of course a discounted bundled version of the two titles is planned, but I haven't seen anything announcing something like that.

The advice to read the AARs is sound, and I can't think of any better way for you to get a feel for how the game plays. If you find yourself fascinated and entertained by the AARs, then I bet you'll enjoy WitP and later AE immensely.

As to the price, I own over 300 games (30+ years building my collection), and WitP is by far the best bang for the buck I've ever gotten out of a game. The only other game I owned that saw as much play time as this one was ToaW in all its different iterations. I'll be playing WitP for decades to come. Or at least until WitP II comes out.

Jim




Terminus -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 10:49:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: richlove

Easy enough. Grand strategy is my sweet spot - I'm currently coming off a Hearts of Iron 2 binge; worked my way through EU2, MOO, Civ1-3, a few others. Played a good deal of tabletop games in my youth - Panzer Leader, DDay, Fleet Series.

The complexity and subject matter appeal...


Far be it from me to try to dissuade you from entering WitP-Land, but the titles you're quoting are PacMan compared to WitP. This game is ship-by-ship, plane-by-plane, gun-by-gun and day-by-day action and strategizing, and you have to understand what you're getting yourself into.

This is not for everyone, but if you get into it, it'll leave all other strategy titles looking pale and bland. Look at the numbers on the Matrix forums. Look at what sub-forum has (by far) the highest number of topics and posts.

You're very welcome to join our cult... er, I mean, community, but this game will suck in all your free time if you let it.




Hornblower -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 11:08:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


You're very welcome to join our cult... er, I mean, community, but this game will suck in all your free time if you let it.


Isn't that the God's Honest truth!!!!!!! [X(]




kaleun -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/1/2009 11:09:26 PM)

Not to mention cause irreparable damage in your personal relationships.




Cathartes -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 12:53:28 AM)

quote:

How do you get into WitP?


A better question is "How do I get away from it!?"




Anthropoid -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 1:39:02 AM)

I believe it was a Terminus signature that said "WiTP has a learning CLIFF."

Even when you are intrigued, motivated, smart and interested, this game is HARD to learn, let alone master.

But it is a tremendously engrossing, fun game. My only real complaint is that the AI sucks. Best gaming is to be achieved from PBEM, which I simply do not have the patience for myself.




witpqs -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 2:10:49 AM)

Oh just man-up and dive in!

[;)][:D]




Gem35 -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 2:47:16 AM)

be afraid, be VERY afraid!
Just kidding, $70 for years of enjoyment is only pennies per day if that.




TOMLABEL -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 3:11:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

My only real complaint is that the AI sucks.



Not for long![;)] The AI in AE is much more compentent. [&o]

TOMLABEL




Anthropoid -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 3:36:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

My only real complaint is that the AI sucks.



Not for long![;)] The AI in AE is much more compentent. [&o]

TOMLABEL


FANTASTIC!! [&o]




DivePac88 -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 4:10:07 AM)

If you’ve purchased some very good games, but the attraction always wears off after two or three months. This doesn’t happen with WitP; the more you play the more layers you find in the game. It is true that sometimes the AI sucks, but consider it as training for PBEM game (CHS). I have war gamed most of my life, and only dreamed of a game like this, but be warned it sucks up time like a black hole. [;)]




2ndACR -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 4:20:54 AM)

WITP is worse than crack........if you love your wife/gf and want to keep them happy, avoid WITP at all costs.

If you do jump in and buy, you will find this game still on your hard drive 5 years from now.




wdolson -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 4:22:31 AM)

I played the Battleline/Avalon Hill board game Flat Top many years ago, back when PCs were still in diapers.  I had a lot of war games, but Flat Top was my favorite.  Even back then, I was trying to come up with ways to computerize it.

When I heard about Uncommon Valor, which covers the same area and the same time period, I knew I needed to buy it.  I like UV a lot.  Flat Top had pretty fine detail for a board game, but UV had even more. 

Then WitP came along, which took the same engine as UV and expanded it to encompass half the Earth.  I've been hooked ever since.  When AE was announced, I stepped forward and I've been part of the team ever since.  I'm still one of the johnny come latelys, but I've been working on it for 17 months now.

I have not bought another game since buying WitP about three or four years ago.  It's not the sort of game that appeals to everyone, but for most of the people on this forum, it's exactly the kind of game they love.  It's high in detail, you can learn a fair bit of history playing it, and it's a lot of fun.

Bill




TOMLABEL -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 4:34:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I played the Battleline/Avalon Hill board game Flat Top many years ago, back when PCs were still in diapers.  I had a lot of war games, but Flat Top was my favorite.  Even back then, I was trying to come up with ways to computerize it.

When I heard about Uncommon Valor, which covers the same area and the same time period, I knew I needed to buy it.  I like UV a lot.  Flat Top had pretty fine detail for a board game, but UV had even more. 

Then WitP came along, which took the same engine as UV and expanded it to encompass half the Earth.  I've been hooked ever since.  When AE was announced, I stepped forward and I've been part of the team ever since.  I'm still one of the johnny come latelys, but I've been working on it for 17 months now.

I have not bought another game since buying WitP about three or four years ago.  It's not the sort of game that appeals to everyone, but for most of the people on this forum, it's exactly the kind of game they love.  It's high in detail, you can learn a fair bit of history playing it, and it's a lot of fun.

Bill




Echoing wdolson's comments, I too grew up playing AH's Midway, VItP, WAS, and some computerized spin off of AH's Third Reich wishing there was SOMETHING similar to this for the Pacific campaign. Being a WWII history freak, I longed for a game that would be challenging as well. School, work and then marriage interuppted a period of time since that point and I missed any mention of UV, but searching on the internet one day, I came across WITP. I probably spent a month contemplating on whether to buy at $70 or not, but read several of the AAR and became convinced that I had to buy.

I had played games like DOOM, COD, and endless others right up until I purchased WITP. From that point foward, I find it hard to impossible to go back to any of those games in a serious fashion and have not bought another game since that time which was 2006!

I'll be the first to admit it......I need anti-WITP therapy (of course, at my wife's urging!!!)

TOMLABEL




Ron Saueracker -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 6:15:24 AM)

Hey Rich. Dive right in because the water's warm and the cocktails and neccessities are all inclusive for the low price of 70 bucks. It's a bit of a sausage fest around here but hey, women are for bedrooms and kitchens, not the war room!!! Anyway, you will need WITP to play the AE refit so get started ASAP. Welcome to the crack house.




vettim89 -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 1:39:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Hey Rich. Dive right in because the water's warm and the cocktails and neccessities are all inclusive for the low price of 70 bucks. It's a bit of a sausage fest around here but hey, women are for bedrooms and kitchens, not the war room!!! Anyway, you will need WITP to play the AE refit so get started ASAP. Welcome to the crack house.


Crack House? Don't you think that is a bit extreme? Now why is my PBEM turn not in my mail box yet? (twitch) Really this game is not that addicting (muscle spasms). I think these guys are using a bit of hyperbole (cold chills break). In truth, the only other games I play now are the ones to occupy my time while waiting for my PBEM turn to come (AIEEEE, falls to the floor, assumes fetal position, and starts sucking his thumb)

Larry, could you please send that turn before I kill some one?




BrucePowers -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 1:44:15 PM)

Helping you to learn the game are some really knowledgeable and friendly people right here in these forums.




hartwig.modrow -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 1:50:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

Helping you to learn the game are some really knowledgeable and friendly people right here in these forums.


And, of course, a "mean and evil" foe in your first PBEM. Go for a small scenario first...

Hartwig




hartwig.modrow -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 1:56:52 PM)

In addition, it may be helpful to mention a few more things that make this game different:

* this is not about finding the what kills what best sequence and optimizing your force mix accordingly (at least not globally). You can not just decide you want more CVs, more tank divisions, more fighter squadrons. In a limited way, you can optimize the types of planes you are using as long as your pools and production support it. You do not have an infinite supply of war material and just "buy" after acquiring the necessary credits. Production can be tweaked as Japanese player, but the degrees of customization stay limited and the process is not instantaneous. But mainly, you are stuck within a given OOB and need to optimize what you achieve with it.

* remember that you are playing a several year war on a day (or two day or three day) turn basis. This implies that running a complete operation can easily take two or three months, and even this only if you do not prep your troops fully for your target (needs 100 days). You need to plan ahead, which includes the need to provide supplies and fuel at the right locations. You can have a splendid opportunity to destroy the enemy fleet which fails because you did not provide the fuel needed at the respective location. As Allies, you need to ship a lot of stuff to the place where it is needed, which takes easily more than a month game time. Therefore, this game has a significant logistics aspect. AE is rumoured to be even more demanding in this respect.

* do NOT expect that your plans run like a clockwork. The dice are important - a lucky hit on a key unit can change the entire outcome of a battle. Not all air missions fly (weather issues, morale issues, supply issues...) and some get lost. Not all air missions that do fly hit the right target (naval attack will often attack a TF which you consider to be of secondary importance rather than the target you want to attack). Multi-strike attacks will suffer from coordination problems and may come in piecemeal... And many a TF did not move as scheduled, because the TF commander just felt his DDs need urgent refueling or reacted into the enemy CV TF just when you wanted to avoid it at all cost. Your subordinates may just not do what you want them to do. Things get worse if a PBEM opponent also does not do want you want him to do (WEGO makes this even more of a "problem"). This is part of why waiting to see how your plans evolved when you receive the next turn creates so much tension and thrill.

All of this makes WitP very different. I like it a lot, even though I bought other games after WitP I end up spending my gaming time with WitP rather than using them. A lot of fun for the money I paid. But definitely not something for everyone.

Hartwig




Nomad -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 2:38:34 PM)

I did I get into WitP? I FELL and I can't find the darn ladder to get back out. I'm stuck. [8D]




Grotius -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 4:15:55 PM)

I got into WITP because I got hooked on its predecessor, "Uncommon Valor."

Incidentally, it is possible to play WITP *and* enjoy other games. I'm living proof! I play at least a couple of turns of WITP every day (lately against the AI only), but I also play other Matrix wargames, strategy games like Civ IV and Galactic Civs, even a little WoW. WITP doesn't have to dominate your life. Although whenever I play a WITP PBEM, it does seem that my life revolves around that. :)




AW1Steve -> RE: How do you get into WitP? (5/2/2009 4:35:19 PM)

WITP is better than most addictions, as you only pay for it once. And the only thing you lose is time (isn't that the definition of most hobbies?). Some spouses (like mine ) prefer you you to spending time with WITP , rather than booze,drugs, or other women. It frees up the TV so they can watch chick flicks.

WITP is the only addiction where the support group is there to keep you ON the addiction![:D]




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