WAR OF 1812 (Full Version)

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Big B -> WAR OF 1812 (9/23/2007 10:41:21 PM)

Looking over the demo - and I see units and leaders for the War of 1812.

Question - is there a War of 1812 scenario?...why else are the graphics included?

B




Hertston -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/24/2007 12:09:41 AM)

Yup.. it was included with one of the patches.




Big B -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/24/2007 6:02:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Yup.. it was included with one of the patches.

Now I'm really intrigued, is it an entire war scenario - a couple of months (maybe 6 to 12 turns)?




Joe D. -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/24/2007 7:55:04 PM)

I actually have a folder for 1812 in my BoA directories, but I thought that was for the proposed BoA Gold edition, which was supposed to be a separate add-on that you could buy for BoA.

But the latest patch was 1.12a, and that was some time ago; so did I miss something?




Roads -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/27/2007 5:17:45 AM)

The scenario should be there. You need to scroll down,




Joe D. -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/27/2007 5:45:04 PM)

Thanks, found it; a Great Lakes scenario of 10 turns, probably the demo for the proposed 1812 add-on.

This scenario plays well, and the Canadian games are interesting too for a change of pace from the American revolution.

Great thing about BoA is it's replayability; it never plays the same twice.




Pocus -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/27/2007 7:16:00 PM)

BOA Gold is still planned, but we are delaying it a bit. We have a new person working almost full time on it (nickname Hok, if you see it passing in the forums, Matrix or Ageod). The BOA gold map is much bigger than the current one what's more: double surface. We plan to add not only the war of 1812, but others struggles thematic to the map and epoch. Stay tuned.

As for a new BOA patch, this is definitively planned too, but not before late october. It will wraps up a ton of bugs and AI improvements.




Big B -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/29/2007 5:05:45 AM)

Ahh, so BoA Gold will have a new map larger map, and the War of 1812 also - Must Have!
Staying tunned for announcements![:)]

Since further work on BoA is in the works - may I suggest including frigates and ship-sloops to go with the other ship types included already? They would add a nice new dimension - especially relevant in the War of 1812.

B
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

BOA Gold is still planned, but we are delaying it a bit. We have a new person working almost full time on it (nickname Hok, if you see it passing in the forums, Matrix or Ageod). The BOA gold map is much bigger than the current one what's more: double surface. We plan to add not only the war of 1812, but others struggles thematic to the map and epoch. Stay tuned.

As for a new BOA patch, this is definitively planned too, but not before late october. It will wraps up a ton of bugs and AI improvements.






Pocus -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/29/2007 9:46:00 PM)

If you are knowledged enough in this era, you can post your wishlist / features list here too, Hok will surely check it (or I will forward it).




Big B -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/30/2007 12:38:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

If you are knowledged enough in this era, you can post your wishlist / features list here too, Hok will surely check it (or I will forward it).

Delighted,

My wish list, focusing on the War 1812 here,
An important part of American strategy for the War of 1812 was to disrupt the British economy by commerce raiding (capturing goods, but most importantly for the Americans - driving up insurance rates).
This was accomplished by numerous American privateers, but the US Navy heavy frigates and ship sloops available were an invaluable asset out of proportion to their numbers, because they not only shook the Royal Navy's 'habit of victory', once they slipped out of port, they would force the Royal Navy to put many times their number to sea to look for them (not unlike Bismark in WWII) - this also freed up US privateers to go safely marauding - who would otherwise have been blockaded and neutralized.
US Navy frigates and ship sloops operated in squadrons and individually.

SO - I would like to see these warships added to the game for both sides - they would play an important part in determining the economic part of the war (victory points, if you will). The more successful the Americans are at sea, the more pressure on the British to negotiate an end to the war. Conversely, the more successful the British are at sea(or rather - blockading the American coastline) the more the American economy suffers (causing political unrest) the more the Americans are pressured to end the war.

I think ships should be deployed in either single ship or multiple ship squadrons - posted to blockade duty, or sea lanes/areas, both for raider/cruisers and for patrol/escorts, with a chance of intercepting convoys, intercepting raiders, ship duals, escapes, etc.

The principal US Heavy Frigates available at start in 1812 are:
At Annapolis - Constitution (44); In New York, under Commodore Rodgers, - President (44), United States (44), Congress (38), along with the ship sloop Hornet (18), and the brig Argus (16)[Essex 32 is undergoing repairs @ NY]; In Washington - corvette Adams (28), [frigate New York (36)'in ordinary']; At sea - ship sloop Wasp (18), brig Nautilus (14); Fitting out at Baltimore - Constellation (38); fitting out in Boston - Chesapeake (38);
Three more heavy 44's were built during the war, Columbia (burned in Washington in 1814) Java(II), and Guerriere(II), plus 20 gun ship sloops of the Peacock and Ontario classes.
Theodore Roosevelt's Naval War of 1812 is online and a good resource readily available.

Principal Royal Navy ships on station at Halifax under Vice-Admiral Sawyer, at the wars beginning are:
Africa (SOL- 64), Guerriere(38), Belvidera (36), Shannon (38), Aeolus (32), Minerva (32), Southampton (32).
There are of course others on the west Atlantic station, and detailed Royal Navy ship assignments, by theater and year, are all listed here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pbtyc/Naval_History/Index.html (William James is an excellent source for Royal Navy affairs of this period - but heavily biased against America due to his being a prisoner during the war).
The Royal Navy kept a good number of ships on the American Station (Halifax to Bermuda), which increased as time went on - especially after Napoleon was defeated in 1814. Their primary assignment was blockade and keeping an eye on US Navy heavy Frigates, lest they slip to sea and disrupt commerce, or capture solitary British warships.

Also, the relatively small squadrons on the Great Lakes (from gunboats to 22 gun ships) ultimately decided the land war in the entire region. Ultimate American naval control on the lakes ended British offensive operations in the Lake Ontario area and Upper Canada. So again - naval power lays a deceive factor in the War of 1812, and should be included in some amount of detail. (one last note here - naval power on the lakes became so critical that both sides were building 110 gun - 120 gun Ships of the Line there...larger than Nelson's HMS Victory.)

I believe adding a bit more of a naval element would enhance the detail and flavor of the game - as well as draw many more enthusiasts to the game, who are sea-power oriented in interest.

I hope this helps spark interest.

Brian




Joe D. -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/30/2007 5:56:05 PM)

Wasn't there a famous naval engagement between John Paul Jones' squadron and the Brit Navy on one of the Great Lakes?

If so, it would make an interesting (strickly naval) scenario.




Big B -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/30/2007 10:01:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Wasn't there a famous naval engagement between John Paul Jones' squadron and the Brit Navy on one of the Great Lakes?

If so, it would make an interesting (strickly naval) scenario.

Actually John Paul Jones was a Revolutionary War naval commander, who, I believe had his whole naval career in the Atlantic.

However, I believe what you are thinking of was the Battle of Lake Erie, won by the Americans under Oliver Hazard Perry, who won control of Lake Erie in a squadron engagement with the British. He flew a flag emblazoned with Lawrence's famous last words: Don't Give Up The Ship (the Chesapeake v Shannon frigate action of 1813), and - who's famous report after the action was "We have met the enemy, and they our ours".




Joe D. -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/30/2007 10:19:25 PM)

Yes, on second thought, I don't think Jones lived long enough to see this war, having
died in poverty (in France?); Jones was already dead when he was approached to become secretary of the navy, or some such title.

I recall Jones told the Brits something along the lines of "not yet begun to fight." Different quote, different war.




Big B -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (9/30/2007 10:37:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Yes, on second thought, I don't think Jones lived long enough to see this war, having
died in poverty (in France?); Jones was already dead when he was approached to become secretary of the navy, or some such title.

I recall Jones told the Brits something along the lines of "not yet begun to fight." Different quote, different war.

You are correct, John Paul (Jones added after he came to America from Ireland) died in Paris in 1792.
His famous quote was "I have not yet begun to fight" after being queried if he was surrendering in the famous 1778 action off Flamborough Head off Yorkshire between his 42 gun BonHomme Richard and the British 44 gun Serapis. Probably the most celebrated naval action of the American Revolution.




Roads -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (10/1/2007 1:28:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Also, the relatively small squadrons on the Great Lakes (from gunboats to 22 gun ships) ultimately decided the land war in the entire region. Ultimate American naval control on the lakes ended British offensive operations in the Lake Ontario area and Upper Canada. So again - naval power lays a deceive factor in the War of 1812, and should be included in some amount of detail. (one last note here - naval power on the lakes became so critical that both sides were building 110 gun - 120 gun Ships of the Line there...larger than Nelson's HMS Victory.)


It worked both ways.

British naval control of the Upper Lakes meant that Hull was cut off in Detroit and that the army opposing him could be easily reinforced. It was naval control of Lake Erie that allowed the British to take the war to the enemy until Perry's victory. And his victory ended all British operations west of Lake Ontario.

And the tempo of all operations around Lake Ontario was driven by who held naval control of the Lake. The US offensive in 1813 petered out because the navy was no longer assured of control of the Lake. The US strategy on the Niagara frontier in 1814 was determined by the fact that they controlled Lake Eire and not Lake Ontario.

And of course the huge British army that could easily have conquered Plattsburgh New York didn't because once the US had control of Lake Champlain there was no way the British could keep that army in Plattsburgh or anywhere else south of the border.

I think the only way to really understand land operations on the Great Lakes in the war of 1812 is by looking at them through the prism of naval operations. Where the British navy was successful (Lake Ontario) they had no problem stalemating the US army. Where the US navy was successful (Lake Erie and Champlain) it was the other way around.




Big B -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (10/1/2007 6:39:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roads


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Also, the relatively small squadrons on the Great Lakes (from gunboats to 22 gun ships) ultimately decided the land war in the entire region. Ultimate American naval control on the lakes ended British offensive operations in the Lake Ontario area and Upper Canada. So again - naval power lays a deceive factor in the War of 1812, and should be included in some amount of detail. (one last note here - naval power on the lakes became so critical that both sides were building 110 gun - 120 gun Ships of the Line there...larger than Nelson's HMS Victory.)


It worked both ways.
{snip}

I think the only way to really understand land operations on the Great Lakes in the war of 1812 is by looking at them through the prism of naval operations. ...


Of course it worked both ways - which is why we agree this naval element is important and needs to be included [8D]




Pocus -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (10/4/2007 1:09:46 PM)

If some of you are interested in applying to the Beta testing of BOA gold, you can write me at support@ageod.com. For now it only applies to the 4 original posters of this thread, but if you just discovered this topic and are knowledged and serious, you can apply too, and we will see. [:'(]




barbarossa2 -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (10/24/2007 11:14:07 AM)

Pocus, I would love to be a playtester for BoA Gold.  While I didn't live through the American Revolution, I have read many of the 40 or so boxes of books I have on military history, with an emphasis in Napoleonics. I have, like many people in here perhaps, spent far too many hours of my life over a gaming table. I have absolutely fallen in love with your BoA system, but do see some minor room for improvement in upcoming titles (would love to see Fredrick the Great, Spanish War of Succession, or 30 Years War next! [:)]).  I am 40 years old and have a four year degree engineering and one in marketing.  Please contact me at chriskontakt (at) googlemail (dot) com for any additional details you would like.




Pocus -> RE: WAR OF 1812 (10/27/2007 6:16:42 PM)

I will, thanks for your attention.




XLegion -> WAR OF 1812 - Lake Control (10/30/2007 4:37:30 PM)

I would like to correct Brian's statement about control of Lake Ontario during the War of 1812. Brian gives the impression that the Americans were in total control of the Great lakes by the end of the war. Nothing could be further from the truth.

After the Battle of Lake Erie in 1813, the American Navy did have total control of Lake Erie and for awhile the Upper Lakes too.

The Upper Lakes were contested by the British when they captured two of the American schooners that were in the Battle of Lake Erie. "Tigress" and "Scorpion".

Control of Lake Ontario was a complete stalemate for both sides for nearly the entire war. However, with the launching of the Ship of the Line "St. Lawrence" onto Lake Ontario in late 1814 British Commodore James Lucas Yeo had undisputed control of the lake for the entire war (which ended that winter anyway).

In response, the Americans were forced to start construction of there own "Ship of the Line" in Sackets Harbour that winter. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed and with the end of the war both fleets were disbanded. In fact the later Rush-Bagot agreement in 1817 disallowed building such war ships on the lakes ever again.




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