The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (Full Version)

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KG Erwin -> The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/16/2007 1:44:11 AM)

There was a topic on the Armchair General forum on "Still Horrifying Battlefields", and this is where I first heard of this battlefield near Stalingrad. It is mentioned in Donovan Webster's book, "Aftermath: The Remnants of War".

A commentary on another site is quoted here (also see http://www.quikmaneuvers.com/stalingrads_red_army_secret.html ) :

"In the early 1990s, Walter Seledec of the Austrian Television Network visited Volgagrad/Stalingrad to see where the fifty thousand Austrian members of the destroyed German 6th Army had died and were buried. It is a place where the grass didn't grow for a year after the battle; where run-offs after the winter thaw, for over a year after the battle, were still pink with the blood of the dead.Until 1989, the Stalingrad battlefield and hundreds more World War II battlefields within the Soviet Union had been deemed 'sensitive areas,' closed to foreign visitors. Sedelec was there visiting in 1980-81. He stood where the, '...contours of former trenches and dirt bunkers (are) still recognizable.'Seledec drove an hour across the battlefield to a site near the town of Peschanka. In shock he stopped his car and got out. There he was astounded to see that, '...the balki, the gullies and slopes of the steppes, were littered with sun-bleached bones.'

Walter Seledec described the horror: 'There you are, standing beside an open field, and you are confronted with things you cannot believe, things you have never seen in your life, things you would not think possible in this day and age. There in the open fields, all the way to the horizon, are the skeletons of human beings, just lying there in the open fields. I dont mean a few. There are hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands...Human remains lying in the fields. Human skeletons as far as the eye can see.'

The many photographs that Seledec took have preserved the horror for all time. In those photographs, '...(to) the distant horizon...(the) surface is littered with the remains of human skeletons--arms, legs, pelvic bones, skulls, an occasional rib...large piles of bones...fragments, shell cases, and an undetonated projectile; a rusted machine gun; a battered metal container...Skulls...hundreds of them, thousands of them, Just lying around out there in the open fields...Skulls lie in helmets, decayed bones still stand in boots, on the spines hang the identity tags...No cross. No wreath. This unknown soldier never made it into a mass grave. Today, he lies on the steppe outside Volgograd exactly as he fell fifty years ago. His shirt and uniform buttons still lie between his ribs.' Such scenes and media coverage caused a furor in Europe. Documentaries were made of the bone fields and articles were written in every major European magazine and newspaper."

I've been unable to find any photographs of this site, or copies of the articles, but in recent years, the Russian government has recovered and properly buried many WWII dead. Some of THOSE photographs ARE on the web. See http://www.1942.ru/photo_zah.htm (Unfortunately, it's in Russian, so I have no idea where these photos were taken).

However, the Seledec photos of the actual alleged "bone fields", AFAIK are NOT available on the web.

These reports/claims are truly difficult to believe. I was simply astonished and horrified, but maybe, just maybe, they have at least a partial basis in fact.

Does anyone have any verifiable info on this?






Arkady -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/16/2007 11:12:29 AM)

IMHO it is a revisionist fake...
"Skulls lie in helmets, decayed bones still stand in boots" in 1990s ? In industrial and populated area of Volgograd ?
and if photos are taken, where they are...

"Such scenes and media coverage caused a furor in Europe. Documentaries were made of the bone fields and articles were written in every major European magazine and newspaper." ... where and when ? I don't remember this cause and search in newspapers archives shows nothing...

to my knowledge, deads from both sides were buried, at least in mass graves for fear of plague
of course there is a possibility that some flood or undergroudn streams washed out remnants from those graves...but again, most of mass graves was after the war re-opened and remnants properly buried.

EDIT:
Walter Seledec is very close to "neo-nazi" groups and has strong ties to Jorg Heider - former FPÖ leader
I'm very suspicious to people like him and don't trust him much [;)]






Doggie -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/17/2007 6:12:56 AM)

How many deer skeletons have you found in the woods, Erwin?  Human and animal remains left exposed to the elements don't just sit there for six decades.  There is a natural process of decay and dispersion.  The only bones you're going to find after that long are the ones that have been protected in some manner.

Yes, I know the odd corpse turns up now and then, even at the Custer National monument, but somebody had to dig it out of the clay.




Researcher -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 4:22:57 PM)

The Perschanka Bone Fields did exist.
After the news blitz in Europe about 20 years ago, the Soviets began bulldozing their battlefield dead into mass graves.

It is difficult to research European newspapers from the time reported by www.quikmaneuvers.com, but their account is accurate.

The response from two members was obviously biased i.e. "according to my knowledge" and they called the researcher "a nazi" the USSR did that at the time the news erupted.

If anyone cares they can run down the reports.

If my word is as good as the other opinions presented, here is my statement:
-I have been to the USSR/Russia and I have seen proof that the bone yards existed.
-I have a document published by a USSR magazine sent to US subscribers in the early 1990s that had pictures of whole fields of skeletons.
-It is verbotten to mention that situation, and all pro-communists deny it.
-The US press at the time refused to cover it.

Does anyone on this forum read Russian or Austrian?

If any of you would like to investigate what quikmaneuvers said, please visit www.quikmaneuvers.com and make a copy of what they say as a guideline. Look for real proof, do not accept opinions from people.
Look under Battlefield Archaeology on their Home Page.

By the way, I'm a Battlefield Archaeology hobbyists. Does anyone on this forum share that interest?

Quikmaneuvers Update (from Site)

Nina Tumarkin's: The Rise and Fall of the World War II Cult in Russia, mentions the unburied dead.

Regards, Researcher




Terminus -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 4:37:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arkady

IMHO it is a revisionist fake...
"Skulls lie in helmets, decayed bones still stand in boots" in 1990s ? In industrial and populated area of Volgograd ?
and if photos are taken, where they are...

"Such scenes and media coverage caused a furor in Europe. Documentaries were made of the bone fields and articles were written in every major European magazine and newspaper." ... where and when ? I don't remember this cause and search in newspapers archives shows nothing...

to my knowledge, deads from both sides were buried, at least in mass graves for fear of plague
of course there is a possibility that some flood or undergroudn streams washed out remnants from those graves...but again, most of mass graves was after the war re-opened and remnants properly buried.

EDIT:
Walter Seledec is very close to "neo-nazi" groups and has strong ties to Jorg Heider - former FPÖ leader
I'm very suspicious to people like him and don't trust him much [;)]





Seems weird that you're using a winking smiley then...




Jeffrey H. -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 7:07:16 PM)

On a side note, I was in Berlin in 2008 and while wandering around the area of the city where Hitlers bunker was and the old Reichstag building, I stumbled across some of these fringish types selling printed materials on the street. I wouldn't call them neo-nazis or even neo anything but the materials dealt with Post WWII events and Soviet atrocities in Poland, mistreatment of Germans by the Soviets, etc.

They claimed that their works were illegal to publish in Germany and they sort of blamed the Soviets for that, or at least that's part of it.

They seemed at bit crazy but I was drawn to the materials with the bigraphies and photos, very historical and interesting. I didn't buy anything because I was a little concerned about the legality of it and I don't know smack about German laws, especially when trying to leave the country. So I held off.

It was interesting and I'm sure there were some grains of validity there.





KG Erwin -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 9:43:42 PM)

Jeffrey H, the "bone fields" were debunked, BUT, a recent History Channel documentary did conclude that underground remnants of the Hitler bunker still exist in Berlin.




andym -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 9:53:55 PM)

On a similar theme,not sure if you have seen Elena Filitova's site.Very interesting reading.


http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/




Helpless -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 10:23:45 PM)

quote:

I've been unable to find any photographs of this site, or copies of the articles, but in recent years, the Russian government has recovered and properly buried many WWII dead. Some of THOSE photographs ARE on the web. See http://www.1942.ru/photo_zah.htm (Unfortunately, it's in Russian, so I have no idea where these photos were taken).


These photos are from Vyazma/Rzhev area.




Sarge -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 10:24:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: andym

On a similar theme,not sure if you have seen Elena Filitova's site.Very interesting reading.


http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/


Yea, nice family of Russian grave robbers. Nothing like spending quality time with the family digging up German war graves .

And its profitable to boot………[X(]

"The Serpent's Wall" link on that page is disturbing
quote:


The ring on photo is not real, it just a copy. If I was lucky with finding a real SS “Death’s Head” ring, then you wouldn't see me riding scooturo on the trenches, I'd already ride a new ninja bike on highway. Collectors pay a big bucks for original rings I have got a copy, because I don't want to miss a real ring when I find it.


What kind of person brings their kid and wife into WWII graveyards with shovels ……very disturbing not to mention extremely dangerous.






Helpless -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 10:35:24 PM)

quote:

It is difficult to research European newspapers from the time reported by www.quikmaneuvers.com, but their account is accurate.


http://www.quikmaneuvers.com/soviet_army_ebooks.html
quote:

There are almost no books, besides those written by Viktor Suvorov,
that are similar to QuikManeuvers.com e-books on the Soviet Army.


no.. thank you... [sm=vomit-smiley-020.gif]





andym -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 10:43:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: andym

On a similar theme,not sure if you have seen Elena Filitova's site.Very interesting reading.


http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/


Yea, nice family of Russian grave robbers. Nothing like spending quality time with the family digging up German war graves .

And its profitable to boot………[X(]

"The Serpent's Wall" link on that page is disturbing
quote:


The ring on photo is not real, it just a copy. If I was lucky with finding a real SS “Death’s Head” ring, then you wouldn't see me riding scooturo on the trenches, I'd already ride a new ninja bike on highway. Collectors pay a big bucks for original rings I have got a copy, because I don't want to miss a real ring when I find it.


What kind of person brings their kid and wife into WWII graveyards with shovels ……very disturbing not to mention extremely dangerous.







I agree with you Sarge but we must not project our own values onto others in a different country.The Russians certainly think a lot differently to us.As an example, us brits love Black Pudding.Do you?Bit of a poor example but im sure you get the drift.As for the robbing of graves etc ,it goes on all over the world,just the age of the artifacts differs.What is historical to one is the norm to another.Once again how many people could say that their door(original) was over 1000 years old in the US?Where as your oldest buildings(not archeologiacla sites) are as common as Starbuck shops overe here in UK.




Sarge -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 11:10:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: andym
I agree with you Sarge but we must not project our own values onto others in a different country.The Russians certainly think a lot differently to us.As an example, us brits love Black Pudding.Do you?Bit of a poor example but im sure you get the drift.As for the robbing of graves etc ,it goes on all over the world,just the age of the artifacts differs.What is historical to one is the norm to another.Once again how many people could say that their door(original) was over 1000 years old in the US?Where as your oldest buildings(not archeologiacla sites) are as common as Starbuck shops overe here in UK.


So your telling me in Russia digging up WWII graves is a hobby ?

BS their grave robbers , its offensive to all level minded people not just Westerners there is no way what their doing is legal or morally acceptable.





Helpless -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/15/2009 11:16:31 PM)

quote:

So your telling me in Russia digging up WWII graves is a hobby ?


Where did you find find grave robberies in that link? since then battlefield = grave?

Edit: http://www.serpentswall.com/page5.html
"Before I began a war story I shall honor all who died in World War 2. "The soldiers graves are greatest preachers of peace" written on stone at cemetery. It is the resting place for all German war dead that taken part in a battles and who still being found in the northern part of Ukraine..."




kaleidoscope -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/16/2009 1:12:31 AM)

I was browsing a war relics site and saw pictures of a Russian pilot who had been flying a lend-lease Hurricane.
He was shot down and crashed into a swamp. His body and flying gear were so well preserved by the muck
that he looked as if he died only a few days ago instead of 60 odd years.

Parts of Russia are like a time capsule. This is a video of a Fw190 discovered largely intact somewhere
in a heavily forested region in north Russian/Finland. Its kind of eerie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jueDXiuU6aM




Erik Rutins -> RE: The Peschanka Bone Fields: Did/Do They Exist? (3/16/2009 1:28:30 AM)

I just skimmed this and it seems to be flirting with the line of current events and politics, so I'm going to lock it up now.




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